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  1. #1
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    Default How good is evasion?

    So the last characters i've been playing have had evasion. The one before that was a druid who had horrible reflex and i started to hate him probably because of it. The one before that was a Pure Wiz PM who had insightful reflexes but no evasion.

    I noticed that having evasion or insightful reflexes has been a BIG deal for me. But not splashing 2 Rogue or 2 Monk also gives more options. So, how important is evasion for you?

    The way i've been seeing it, evasion would be better than whatever else 2 class splashes you could give a character, better than 2 Fighter, 2 Barb, 2 Ranger, 2 Pally (Unless Sorc), etc.

  2. #2
    Community Member Soulfurnace's Avatar
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    I tend to splash /2 monk whenever possible.

    When I can't, I'll most likely splash /2 rogue. I don't need evasion.. I just love it. Makes the game even easier

  3. #3
    Community Member Forzah's Avatar
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    Evasion is fantastic if you can boost your saves to a sufficiently high level. You hardly have to worry about being hit by spells and traps, which makes life in DDO much more comfortable. Combining evasion with self healing is almost guarantee for success.

  4. #4
    Community Member PermaBanned's Avatar
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    I honestly live just fine without it. I splashed for it once on a wiz with IR, and noticed the difference in caster power immediatly. Since then I've never bothered. Prehaps if I was to make another melee I'll splash for it, bit then again my next melee will likely have either monk, rog or ranger splits so I'll have evasion that way.

    In short, IMHO it's not worth splashing just for that.
    Last edited by PermaBanned; 09-05-2013 at 04:38 AM.
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  5. #5

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    If you are self-healing (e.g. pale master, wf archmage, wf artificer) insightful reflexes is in most cases sufficient. In most cases you win your reflex save and just get half damage afaik before reduction effects like absorption, resists so in total you get far less than half damage which you can easily self-heal, with pale masters aura you can ignore it. With evasion you just get no damage on successful save, that is practical for non self healing characters but doesnt make much difference for self-healing characters (despite of aoe spikes with loads of aoe income).

    Evasion is lame if you dont have good reflex saves, because you will get full damage most of the time.
    So for me its more important to have high reflex saves rather than splash levels to get evasion.
    Last edited by morkahn82; 09-05-2013 at 04:40 AM.
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  6. #6
    Community Member Iriale's Avatar
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    Evasion is nice, but is not needed. I have many (I’m alt-coholic lol) toons without evasion and they are nice. Sure, if you can have high reflex ST and evasion is a big help in survival, but is not needed. I have pure wizard and pale trapper and the two are fine. I have a pure druid and a pure cleric –no evasion, fine but not great reflex-, and they have a good survival. I have a splashed arti for evasion – but because evasion is important for a trapper, not for other thing. It’s dangerous deactivate control boxes behind the trap without evasion. Sure, my monks and rogues enjoy of their evasion, but other builds have other advantages.

    Evasion is nice, but sometimes a pure class is more powerful. It’s a trade-off. There are many different builds.

    And evasion is only useful if you can obtain a high reflex save. Evasion is not the same than improved evasion. Try up you reflex, evasion is not as important.
    Last edited by Iriale; 09-05-2013 at 04:48 AM.
    English is not my native language. Sorry for the mistakes.

  7. #7
    Community Member TheLegendOfAra's Avatar
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    I've never had a toon that didn't have evasion.

    This isn't because I build with evasion in mind though, it's usually just a side effect of class splits offering evasion along with other things I needed.
    My Sorc for instance is 16Sorc/2Monk/2Fighter melee/caster build focused on DPS and survivability. I splashed 2 Monk for the 2 free feats. Evasion was just a bonus.

    My Wizard is also an AA 12Wizard/6Ranger/2Monk. Again, I splashed 2 Monk for the extra feats, evasion was just icing on the cake.

    One thing worth noting is that Any build where you could consider splashing 2Rogue/2Monk for evasion will probably have pretty good saves to begin with, in most cases. Adding Evasion is just another layer of protection for your toon. And honestly, 90% of the time it won't hinder what you want your toon to do. That is, unless you already splashed 1-3 levels of another class into your build.
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  8. #8
    Community Member bartharok's Avatar
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    I prefer trapping skills at lower to mid levels, so i usually splash rogue to get evasion as well.
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  9. #9

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    The biggest draw for evasion is being able to ignore a good chunk of all enemy spell damage. That's quite nice. Traps have a much higher dc than spells, though, so splashed evasion is less helpful for traps.

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    Yesterday, in "Fanning the Flames" I died 3 times to traps on Elite. This is a 7th level quest, my 10th level Ranger(9) Rogue(1) with a very respectable Reflex save of 21. Failed trap DC on both counts, taking circa 160 fire damage over 2 hits with 20 points of fire resistance running as well (so basically 200 damage)

    I'm leaning toward thinking Evasion isn't as useful as most people claim. Improved Evasion is definitely worthwhile, or Ranger Tempest Evasive Dance which amounts to the same thing.
    Last edited by Aolas; 09-05-2013 at 06:08 AM.

  11. #11

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    Well, non-evasion characters take a ton of fire damage in that quest from all the fire elementals. I'm guessing they never hurt you at all.

  12. #12
    Community Member Iriale's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aolas View Post
    Yesterday, in "Fanning the Flames" I died 3 times to traps on Elite. This is a 7th level quest, my 10th level Ranger(9) Rogue(1) with a very respectable Reflex save of 21. Failed trap DC on both counts, taking circa 160 fire damage over 2 hits with 20 points of fire resistance running as well (so basically 200 damage)

    I'm leaning toward thinking Evasion isn't as useful as most people claim. Improved Evasion is definitely worthwhile, or Ranger Tempest Evasive Dance which amounts to the same thing.
    Evasion is very useful (if you have high reflex ST), but it’s not a panacea. It's more useful for spells than for traps, too.
    English is not my native language. Sorry for the mistakes.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    Well, non-evasion characters take a ton of fire damage in that quest from all the fire elementals. I'm guessing they never hurt you at all.
    I think a lot of the fireballs were landing since I was burning through 100pts of Protection from Fire pretty quickly in there. The elementals were also regenerating 80+ hitpoints every 2 secs when camped on the fire pools which made them unkillable. 6 re-entries to finish it solo, the quest was incredibly hard. It's actually the only quest I've done where I've given up on all the optional objectives and made a beeline for the finish.

    edit: Not disputing your argument though, I did evade a few.
    Last edited by Aolas; 09-05-2013 at 08:02 AM.

  14. #14
    Community Member Iriale's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aolas View Post
    I think a lot of the fireballs were landing since I was burning through 100pts of Protection from Fire pretty quickly in there. The elementals were also regenerating 80+ hitpoints every 2 secs when camped on the fire pools which made them unkillable. 6 re-entries to finish it solo, the quest was incredibly hard. It's actually the only quest I've done where I've given up on all the optional objectives and made a beeline for the finish.

    edit: Not disputing your argument though, I did evade a few.
    I have noticed that I do successfully ST more often at high levels than to low. This is true too in pnp. Level 10 is in the cutoff in DDO. Soon you will notice that you save more times than fail. That said, Taming is hard. It has a lot of fire damage, and is very easy fail several STs, consuming protections and even hurting an evasion toon.

    That quest is easier to do in a party. Although solo is always a nice challenge.

    Try up your reflex save as high as you can.
    English is not my native language. Sorry for the mistakes.

  15. #15
    Community Member Kalimah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aolas View Post
    Yesterday, in "Fanning the Flames" I died 3 times to traps on Elite. This is a 7th level quest, my 10th level Ranger(9) Rogue(1) with a very respectable Reflex save of 21. Failed trap DC on both counts, taking circa 160 fire damage over 2 hits with 20 points of fire resistance running as well (so basically 200 damage)

    I'm leaning toward thinking Evasion isn't as useful as most people claim. Improved Evasion is definitely worthwhile, or Ranger Tempest Evasive Dance which amounts to the same thing.
    Traps on elite can always be deadly but Evasion is a WONDERFUL tool to have. I wouldnt gimp a build just to get it but I've found that those toons I get evasion (or imp evasion) are just wonderful.

  16. #16
    Community Member AzB's Avatar
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    Evasion is one of those things that can make or break a toon, but it depends on class and playstyle. I've had many toons without evasion, played carefully in a group of folks who aren't opposed to using teamwork, patience, and strategy to complete a quest, and they rarely die. My pure druid, for example, only died about 3 times getting to 20, and each of those was from a trap. His pet does have evasion, and is used to open doors, etc when there is no rogue around or when soloing.

    But if you are considering painting numbers on the side of your toon because you pride yourself in being the first one in the room every time no matter what, and finishing a quest in the least possible time with little or no thought given to other members in your party are you main priorities, then evasion with a proper reflex save is going to be one of the most important aspects of your character.

    But even Enter the Kobold can be beaten without evasion. I completed it the other night on elite at level with a bard, a pally, and a fighter. All pure. The bard charmed all the trash, and then the group took down the bosses. It wasn't even hard. But it required that the group have a plan, use the plan, and required not running full speed into the fight. These are skills that are very, very rare in pugs and in some static groups. YMMV.

    That being said, I have noticed a decrease in power with splashed casters, so generally don't splash them. A melee type with two levels of rogue or monk, decent dex, and something like parasitic breastplate (+10 reflex saves) can stand in traps, fireballs, etc and take very little or no damage. This comes without giving up much, so it's better choice for those classes.

    But it's all in how you play. Don't think just because everyone else thinks you have to play a certain way that evasion is required. It is not.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aolas View Post
    Yesterday, in "Fanning the Flames" I died 3 times to traps on Elite. This is a 7th level quest, my 10th level Ranger(9) Rogue(1) with a very respectable Reflex save of 21. Failed trap DC on both counts, taking circa 160 fire damage over 2 hits with 20 points of fire resistance running as well (so basically 200 damage)

    I'm leaning toward thinking Evasion isn't as useful as most people claim. Improved Evasion is definitely worthwhile, or Ranger Tempest Evasive Dance which amounts to the same thing.
    Maybe your Evasion was cancelled out by encumbrance or something?

  18. #18
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    The last quests that i remember doing without evasion:

    Mired in Kobolds with Bard:
    Kobold casters doing some damage with lightning. Saved a lot for half damage. Didn't go close to dying but i would've if i didn't keep watch of my HP. Running this with Evasion would have been a lot less tiring.

    Not having evasion would compare to running barefoot in a stony outdoor path. You have to keep looking every step of the way. Having evasion is like wearing having thick soles running shoes.

    The enemy within with Druid:
    Now this quest is a headache without evasion and reflex. Even with firewall. One hit can wipe 3/4ths of your HP. Soloing this on a low reflex toon is really an exercise and would make you want to reroll or rethinking dumping dex.

    My conclusion is that dumping Dex is a Bad Decision, evasion or not. Not having evasion is survivable but requires keeping your eyes open.

  19. #19
    Community Member Phidius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by supott View Post
    ...
    My conclusion is that dumping Reflex is a Bad Decision, evasion or not. Not having evasion is survivable but requires keeping your eyes open.
    It's worth pointing out that not everyone gets their Reflex save from Dex... some use Int or Cha.
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  20. #20
    Community Member Timjc86's Avatar
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    My very first DDO character was a rogue, and I have played rogues or rogue-splashed characters almost exclusively.

    I had no idea how great evasion actually was until I started really playing my first character who didn't have it. There were entire categories of mobs that I had dismissed as non-threatening simply because I had evaded the vast majority of their damage on all of my previous characters.

    I have a tough time playing a character without evasion, simply because I have gotten used to a playstyle that evasion allows.

    Having said all of that, it is very possible to have a great character without evasion. I have just personally handicapped myself significantly in that area. I could do it if I took the time and effort to play accordingly. But I'd rather just play a rogue/rogue splash. Some people would get bored of that quickly, but I enjoy it. ^_^

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