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  1. #41
    Community Member redspecter23's Avatar
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    As many others have mentioned, the xp is terrible in Amrath. The ransack changes have done nothing to help the situation and have actually made it less desirable to run Amrath for xp if you are patient. You just hold 18 and run lower quests which are magnitudes better xp/min.

    Poor xp is just the main reason these quests are run less. Sometimes quests with poor xp get run if they have other desirable qualities like loot, flagging requirement, fun factor or challenge. The loot is mostly obsoleted so that has contributed to the decline as well. Why flag for a raid you have no reason to run. Very few people would describe Amrath as "fun" though I'm sure a few enjoy it for that purpose. While it is challenging, those running it for challenge are probably either solo or in channel and guild groups.

    Again, Turbine wonky logic rears it's head. Why is there such a massive hesitation to bump the xp to reasonable levels here? It's a simple fact that once players hit epic levels they can run pretty much any epic quest and get more xp. That's a Turbine created design hole right there. The fact that any epic quest gives 3x or more xp/min on average than a comparable heroic quest is a major design issue and Amrath and IQ are the reasons why. How come I don't get the 3x xp bump when I run Amrath on hard or elite? They are level 20 and 21. It should be treated as epic for xp purposes at that point. I think I'm through trying to understand the logic here. People have been saying for years that the xp in Amrath is low and there has been deafening silence from Turbine about it. They either have no answer or one so illogical, we'd laugh at them if they told us.
    Kaarloe - Degenerate Matter - Argonnessen

  2. #42
    Community Member Shorlong's Avatar
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    My reasons for not running Amrath are different. Yes, the xp sucks, but I don't run for xp. Yes, the difficulty is high, but that doesn't stop me from playing. Yeah, the loot may suck now, but I don't run for loot. I run quests that I have fun in. And there is nothing fun about Amrath. Has nothing to do with difficulty, either, as difficulty does not make something fun or not fun. I like some very difficult quests, and I like some very easy quests.

    Amrath is a jumbled mess of red, brown and then some more red and brown. Nothing is exciting, it's just tedious. It's boring, drab and just not fun. Yeah, the first time through can get your blood flowing, but afer that, the random spawning of certain beasties and the high difficulty of fights doesn't make it exhilerating, just tedious. And after the very first time running it (not per character, per player) it just isn't worth it. Hell, halfway through your first run it stops becoming worth it.

    I just recently capped my druid and my wife her artie. I held 18, she didn't (I was at 18 when she was 16, so I was mainly holding for her), but I leveled from 18 to 20 doing vale (one time rainbow, CC and RwtD), running around the Vale explorer just a little, doing IQ, and running one quest in House C. She capped shortly after me (she had hit 18 somewhere while doing IQ) by finishing House C (no raids, just the three quests) then running around the high road wilderness a little and doing each quest there on hard. She actually leveled before doing the last quest.

    Granted, these are first life characters, but even my TR doesn't have a very hard time in that spot, not with all the new quests in that level range (even if some of them don't give good xp, we now have the following packs to run from 16-20....Gianthold, Shadowfell Conspiracy, Update 18 quests [can't remember the name of that pack], Vale, Druid's Deep, IQ, DD, Reaver's Reach, Reign of Madness, Harbinger of Madness, High Road, Amrath, House C...Heck, at level 16, you can hold that and run the Lordsmarch chain on elite and get full xp for it).

    In other words, I have NO idea how anyone can conceivably be stuck in that level range anymore.
    Shorlong - Pale Master, Cevon - Druid Archer, Gorgnak - Barbarian, Addanc - Bear Tank, Juristash - Shadar Kai Assassin, Treiah - Morninglord Tempest Ranger, Baylfyre - CC Bard, Deimanus - Bladeforged Melee Arti, Daerian - Healing Cleric Morninglord, Krazig - Pally Tank, Veriste - Shadar Kai Death Knight, Xanapheia - TWF FVS, Helainia - Shadar Kai Henshin-Theif

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  3. #43
    Community Member bsquishwizzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shorlong View Post
    In other words, I have NO idea how anyone can conceivably be stuck in that level range anymore.
    Simple.

    My static group has mysteriously vanished. I'm thinking it is a precursor to an alien invasion.

    I'm SICK TO FRICKIN' DEATH of running vale IQ and Madness quests - I was doing those at 17 on my pally.

    I don't like to solo content. I love running in groups.

    Hence, I'm stuck at 19 with a rank-and-a-half to go.

  4. #44
    Community Member Yaga_Nub's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FranOhmsford View Post
    There's an Easy Fix for this that I've suggested before...

    ...
    You do realize that 90% of the suggestions both for Amarath and just about anything else in the game have been made long before you (and everyone else) ever posted about 'your' solution.
    Characters - Brion, Damerchant, Deathbot, Goode-, Minusten, Sepiriz, Spiritstrike, Stee, Steilh, Vorpaal, Wyllye, Yaga, Yagalicious, Yga. RIP - Catpizzle and Qazpe
    Beware My Gifts!!!

  5. #45
    Community Member Shorlong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsquishwizzy View Post
    Simple.

    My static group has mysteriously vanished. I'm thinking it is a precursor to an alien invasion.

    I'm SICK TO FRICKIN' DEATH of running vale IQ and Madness quests - I was doing those at 17 on my pally.

    I don't like to solo content. I love running in groups.

    Hence, I'm stuck at 19 with a rank-and-a-half to go.
    So, essentially, you need in the neighborhood of 46k xp. Grab a cheap xp pot, a hire (or two, if you have shards/tp) and run the wilderness for House C for 30 minutes and High Road for 30 minutes....you'll have it in the bag.
    Shorlong - Pale Master, Cevon - Druid Archer, Gorgnak - Barbarian, Addanc - Bear Tank, Juristash - Shadar Kai Assassin, Treiah - Morninglord Tempest Ranger, Baylfyre - CC Bard, Deimanus - Bladeforged Melee Arti, Daerian - Healing Cleric Morninglord, Krazig - Pally Tank, Veriste - Shadar Kai Death Knight, Xanapheia - TWF FVS, Helainia - Shadar Kai Henshin-Theif

    Leader of The Dark Creed

  6. #46
    Community Member bsquishwizzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shorlong View Post
    So, essentially, you need in the neighborhood of 46k xp. Grab a cheap xp pot, a hire (or two, if you have shards/tp) and run the wilderness for House C for 30 minutes and High Road for 30 minutes....you'll have it in the bag.
    {sigh}

    yeah...but it's not as fun...but you're right...

  7. #47
    Community Member Shorlong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsquishwizzy View Post
    {sigh}

    yeah...but it's not as fun...but you're right...
    I'm right? I haven't heard someone tell me that since I before I got married....you made my day!
    Shorlong - Pale Master, Cevon - Druid Archer, Gorgnak - Barbarian, Addanc - Bear Tank, Juristash - Shadar Kai Assassin, Treiah - Morninglord Tempest Ranger, Baylfyre - CC Bard, Deimanus - Bladeforged Melee Arti, Daerian - Healing Cleric Morninglord, Krazig - Pally Tank, Veriste - Shadar Kai Death Knight, Xanapheia - TWF FVS, Helainia - Shadar Kai Henshin-Theif

    Leader of The Dark Creed

  8. #48
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Am I really the only chimp who streaks this every life?

  9. #49
    Community Member bsquishwizzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    Am I really the only chimp who streaks this every life?
    Don't know about the streaking, but...um...want a banana?

  10. #50
    Community Member TempestAlphaOmega's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Encair View Post
    Tod gear is **** except Holy burst for monks, Ravager , Shintao and maybe Gilvaenor's.
    Well given that ToD set bonuses are iffy when it comes so actually working since the enhancment pass thats not much of an incentive.

    Also did they every fix the damage effects from ToD rings to work properly with handwraps generated after the 1st expansion? I seem to remember they had problems (not Holyburst stacking with Holyburst but Holyburst not stacking with Holy like it should).
    Shapshap, League of Extraordinary Ham, Sarlona and a bunch of alts that all have names begining with Sha or Sho. Of course Shapshap could be the alt and one of the others the main, it just depends on what day it is.

  11. #51
    Community Member Ryiah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raithe View Post
    It isn't that there is no desire to run Amrath, the problem is simply that people don't know how to do it. Just like EE and other metagames, the first time you create a red alert in Bastion is probably going to be a wipe unless you have someone with you that knew it was coming.
    Actually the problem is not that people don't know how to do it. It is that they are taking on difficulties they cannot handle with quests they do not know. Unless I have a very good group, I don't jump in on the highest difficulty available for a quest I do not know. If you cannot run Elite, don't try to force your way through Elite. Run Hard, Normal, or Casual as necessary to learn the quest. Once you have a basic understanding, go back in on the difficulty you believe you can handle properly.
    Last edited by Ryiah; 09-06-2013 at 08:37 PM.
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  12. #52
    Community Member PermaBanned's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoglum View Post
    Amrath.

    You enter the pits of heck. You fight untold legions of the some of the most powerful beings in the universe - devils! (well, they're not quite the most powerful - that title goes to wolves & deer).

    You battle your way to the dungeon, risking life and limb. The barbed devils, with their spears, gouging you at every corner, threatening your life every step of the way.

    You enter the dungeon, fight through hoards of devils, evil wizards & other creatures too foul to describe. Your life hangs in the balance, you survive by the skin of your teeth. Powerful devil lords riddle your path, every inch of the way there lurks ultimate disaster.

    Will you be able to push through to defeat the evil general that threatens all of Stormreach? It is yet unknown as you have managed to descend two levels into the most brutal place in all the realms! (again, most brutal other than the forest behind your house).

    At long last, you finally reach the pit fiend lord! A vicious battle ensues! Will the heroes of Stormreach triumph? The battle rages on. After a long, pitched fight with the devil lord and several close calls which almost ended in your ultimate demise, you finally take him down and emerge victorious!

    And get.... 5.3K XP.
    That was awesome!
    If the devs ever figure out why it's bad for Amrath quests to give xp ~Delera's, and do something appropriate about it, at that point I will have high hopes for the game to move in a positive direction.
    Now excuse me while I wander off to arm myself with Grilled Cheese Sandwiches and hunker down behind my Armored Beer Refrigerator, while I have the UFO's take control of the Congresional Wives with the help of the International Cocaine Smugglers and the Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow

  13. #53
    Community Member PermaBanned's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    Am I really the only chimp who streaks this every life?
    Trolls aren't primates; you misspelled the word placing an "i" where a "u" should be...
    Now excuse me while I wander off to arm myself with Grilled Cheese Sandwiches and hunker down behind my Armored Beer Refrigerator, while I have the UFO's take control of the Congresional Wives with the help of the International Cocaine Smugglers and the Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow

  14. #54
    Hero nibel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoglum View Post
    And get.... 5.3K XP.
    While this feels true by how difficulty those quests are on Elite at level, and how freaking long they are, the XP curve is not that bad on Amrath. Let's be fair and make some basic comparasion: Adding the XP of all quests, and taking the average XP per quest.

    The level 12 quests have an average of 4900 XP on normal (Sans optionals, that multiply it by a lot on this level range)

    The level 15 quests have an average of 4500 XP on normal (lower than the level 12 quests)

    The level 18 quests have an average of 5000 XP on normal (sans High Road, because we don't have all numbers on wiki)

    Amrath quests (not counting ToD) have an average of 6000 XP on normal. And that is lowered a lot by Wrath/Shipment. Those are the ones that have awful XP.

    However, comparing the difficulty of doing a normal run of any Amrath quest to doing IQ or DD on normal is orders of magnitude away. Both in quest difficulty and time investment. All flagigng quests in Amrath are about one hour long, while one of the longer IQ quests are half an hour, tops. Adds to this that two flagging quests gets abrutelly harder at the endboss (Bastion and Invasion), and one of them simply can't be soloed (Genesis), and you get why a lot of people don't go there instead of getting the lower carrot on Vale, Reaver's Refuge, Sane Asylum, or IQ.

    Cannith suffer the same lenght/difficulty problems, but they really have a XP problem on top of that (the three flagging quests average 4k XP).
    Main: Amossa d'Cannith, Sarlona, casually trying Completionist [<o>]

    Almost-never-played-alts: Arquera - Chapolin - Fabber - Herweg - Mecanico - Tenma

    I want DDO to be a better game. Those are my personal suggestions on: Ammunition, Archmage, Combat Stances, Deities, Dispel Magic, Epic Destiny Map, Fast Healing, Favor, Favored Enemy, Half-elf Enhancements, Monk Stances, Past Life, Potency, Potions, Ranger Spells, Summons, Tiered Loot.

  15. #55
    Community Member PermaBanned's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PermaBanned View Post
    If the devs ever figure out why it's bad for Amrath quests to give xp ~Delera's, and do something appropriate about it, at that point I will have high hopes for the game to move in a positive direction.
    So I started fact checking myself, and... well... I'm embarrassed to say I (and a few others here) was (are) full of carp. Go to DDO wiki "quests by xp" and check it out. There's no real logical progression to quest xp in this game. Bastion is on the low side for it's level, but middle of the pack XP wise. Sins is in the top group of XP givers, and there's only 2 non-raid quests that offer more xp than Genesis or Invasion. I must admit I was quite surprised. Anyway, thought I'ld share what I found.

    Elite base XP values:
    •A New Invasion: 9,820
    •Bastion of Power: 5,500
    •Genesis Point: 9,700
    •Sins of Attrition: 7,660
    Now excuse me while I wander off to arm myself with Grilled Cheese Sandwiches and hunker down behind my Armored Beer Refrigerator, while I have the UFO's take control of the Congresional Wives with the help of the International Cocaine Smugglers and the Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow

  16. #56
    Community Member rest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PermaBanned View Post
    So I started fact checking myself, and... well... I'm embarrassed to say I (and a few others here) was (are) full of carp. Go to DDO wiki "quests by xp" and check it out. There's no real logical progression to quest xp in this game. Bastion is on the low side for it's level, but middle of the pack XP wise. Sins is in the top group of XP givers, and there's only 2 non-raid quests that offer more xp than Genesis or Invasion. I must admit I was quite surprised. Anyway, thought I'ld share what I found.

    Elite base XP values:
    •A New Invasion: 9,820
    •Bastion of Power: 5,500
    •Genesis Point: 9,700
    •Sins of Attrition: 7,660
    xp for the effort involved is what most people are talking about, myself included. Would you prefer to get 15k xp for an hour or 15k xp for 15 minutes?

  17. #57
    Community Member Wulverine's Avatar
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    Sins and Genesis XP/min when elite streaking isnt bad at all. Very high base xp quests, so all the modifiers work nicely on it.
    If you're spending an hour in those quests, you simply need to learn how to run them more efficiently

    I can see people staying clear of new invasion, but Sins.... That used to be a nice xp farming quest (it's not needed anymore now).
    Thelanis -- Wulverine [Funkaholic, Funkatronic, Funkarific all retired for now...]

  18. #58
    Community Member Saravis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PermaBanned View Post
    So I started fact checking myself, and... well... I'm embarrassed to say I (and a few others here) was (are) full of carp. Go to DDO wiki "quests by xp" and check it out. There's no real logical progression to quest xp in this game. Bastion is on the low side for it's level, but middle of the pack XP wise. Sins is in the top group of XP givers, and there's only 2 non-raid quests that offer more xp than Genesis or Invasion. I must admit I was quite surprised. Anyway, thought I'ld share what I found.

    Elite base XP values:
    •A New Invasion: 9,820
    •Bastion of Power: 5,500
    •Genesis Point: 9,700
    •Sins of Attrition: 7,660
    Bastion should be over 7k.

    Elite base XP values for Vale:
    Ritual Sacrifice: 8,020
    Running with the Devils: 7,659
    Let Sleeping Dust Lie: 7,299
    Coal Chamber: 10,036
    Rainbow in the Dark: 9,099

    Those are all lower lever quests that require less xp to level compared to when you'll be running Shavarath. None of those Shavarath quests should be below 9k, let alone 7k.

  19. #59
    Community Member PermaBanned's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rest View Post
    xp for the effort involved is what most people are talking about, myself included. Would you prefer to get 15k xp for an hour or 15k xp for 15 minutes?
    Oh, I'm not disputing the xp/effort issue, and xp/min is too subjective. But in terms of where the flags sit xp wise versus the rest of the game, I was surprised to see that only Coal Chamber & SoS have higher bases than Invasion & Genesis. I always felt all the Amrath flags sat much lower in the xp spectrum...
    Now excuse me while I wander off to arm myself with Grilled Cheese Sandwiches and hunker down behind my Armored Beer Refrigerator, while I have the UFO's take control of the Congresional Wives with the help of the International Cocaine Smugglers and the Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow

  20. #60
    Hero nibel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PermaBanned View Post
    Oh, I'm not disputing the xp/effort issue, and xp/min is too subjective. But in terms of where the flags sit xp wise versus the rest of the game, I was surprised to see that only Coal Chamber & SoS have higher bases than Invasion & Genesis. I always felt all the Amrath flags sat much lower in the xp spectrum...
    It is mostly based on Wrath/Shipment. Shipment have awful xp without the optional (that nobody does because they only care about Bauble), and Wrath is just a bit higher. The upside to them is that they are significantly easier and faster than the flagging quests.

    And people usually only run the flagging quests once for favor, and keep farming shipment. So they believe shipment is standard for Amrath XP. You can check the wiki history to see that the flagging quests always were on the 9k range even on launch.
    Main: Amossa d'Cannith, Sarlona, casually trying Completionist [<o>]

    Almost-never-played-alts: Arquera - Chapolin - Fabber - Herweg - Mecanico - Tenma

    I want DDO to be a better game. Those are my personal suggestions on: Ammunition, Archmage, Combat Stances, Deities, Dispel Magic, Epic Destiny Map, Fast Healing, Favor, Favored Enemy, Half-elf Enhancements, Monk Stances, Past Life, Potency, Potions, Ranger Spells, Summons, Tiered Loot.

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