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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    Mr. McFlay you one of those whip and chain sorts. Your idea of an MMO is pay to take a beatdown. There are better ways to do things so why would not Turbine do that. Why do we need to take a flogging because is that a good time or something. I can roll up a character and try it out without making the other players suffer. Nobody forces me to play ddo either so I can stop playing before I start rather then max fate points.
    Problem is you can use your argument for any aspect of the game you don't like. I hate raiding. I find it painful and boring to put 12 man groups together to run quests that are all too prone to lag. If they add in a shiny new weapon I must have and it comes out of a new raid, what should I do then, come on the forums and complain it should also drop in a bunch of non-raid quests so I don't have to raid? Or maybe quests to flag for that raid should count as 1/2 of a raid completion each time you run them so I could get a 20th completion list without touching the raid at all. Surely if I come on the forums making posts threatening to quit unless the devs cave in to my demands they'll listen to me.

    You want to achieve x, you must do y. That's how everything in this game has always been. In this one case you don't like what y is, so you think they should add z. No thanks. If the devs are going to start doing this, well, I really like my raid idea above, and I'm not looking forward to my artificer life since I don't have a good xbow, I should be able to get my artificer past life with xp from a ranger life. Oh yeah, and one more thing, leveling crafting is really boring as well...I should be able to get crafting xp for running. Not for toggling auto run, that'd make it too easy, but if I'm putting in the effort to run through quests or across a town area without auto run, I should get crafting xp for it at least.

  2. #42
    Community Member walkin_dude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    It makes no sense whatsoever, from any standpoint, lore or mechanical, that someone should have to commit to a destiny to gain the XP. Thats like telling an arcane archer they have to commit to tempest if they want to spend points in it.
    The other side of that open system is that you have a maximum number of trees that each toon can participate in, the toon gets only one set of ap to spread across all of them, and the toon can only get the best abilities from one of them. Getting 28 points to use on all EDs is a lot different from getting 28 point in each one. Plus, it seems like it would eliminate the need for twists.

  3. #43
    Community Member maddmatt70's Avatar
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    I would love a read by a dev or some such thing. Quite frankly these suggestions would greatly enhance my enjoyment of DDO and get some people back playing DDO that have left. After nearly 10k posts and 7-8 years of playing DDO the original post request might be the best improvement that I have ever advocated for DDO. Tolero etc. make this known to management/devs at your weekly meeting. My last plea here thanks for reading if you ever did.
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  4. #44
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    Like all the other similar proposals, I think your Epic Destiny freebie-give-away-easy-button idea is garbage. The current system is fine as it is. Getting all destinies to max is painful, for a relatively small increase in power, and that's fine. If you don't like it, don't do it. It's equivalent to getting Completionist TRing. A Cleric Past Life doesn't help your Fighter anymore than Draconic does; but either of Fate Points or Completionist do. A little extra power for a lot of extra work, work that is completely optional. And, honestly, if you really want to max all EDs, it's vastly quicker and easier than getting Completionist.

    However:

    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    Level 27 should give more xp. Give the level 27 quests more xp so people are incentivized to run new content.
    Yes, the XP in the expansion is kind of anemic, and should be boosted.

    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    This next change is a change that I would really like to see. Double or even tripple the xp awarded on epic elite. Why in the world does epic elite not give the same xp per minute as epic normal? Does this make any sense to anyone?
    Yes, Epic Elite XP should be better than it is compared to Epic Normal or Epic Hard.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Urist View Post
    Does it make sense that you have to commit to a class to gain XP in that class? What you're asking for, from my perspective, is akin to asking to be able to work toward a Wizard past life while playing as a pure rogue.
    Worse than just that, it's akin to asking to be able to work toward a Wizard past life while playing as a CAPPED pure Rogue.

    +1/+3/+5/+20 hearts so sort of let you get around things, letting you actually LEVEL UP as one thing, but get the past life as another, but then you have to LEVEL UP again. You can't just sit at cap and accumulate past lives, which is the equivalent to what people keep asking for for EDs.

    I guess I don't oppose a store item that lets you reduce XP in one destiny to raise it in another, just like a +X Heart does for class levels. But no to sitting at full capped destiny powers and just accumulating more on the side!

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    Destinies are not class specific. Was literally said so by the devs.
    They did claim that. Too bad they didn't have the guts to carry through on it.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Singular View Post
    It just means that we have to spend most of our time on our toons running in a manner that is not enjoyable. I just stopped, to be honest, and started TRing. I'll go back to epic stuff when I've gotten what I want. But I can't imagine spending so much time in off destinies - how boring is that?
    I never really understood this attitude. When the cap was 20 we all played the game without ED's. Was playing the game so terrible back then? Was it really as "not enjoyable" as people make it sound today? To listen to people on these boards you would think that leveling from 1 to 20 as a fighter was the most terrible and unenjoyable torture imaginable and the only thing that makes it worth while is that once they get to 20 they can put on their legendary dreadnought ED and suddenly the game stops completely sucking. Is the difference between playing a level 19 fighter and a level 20 fighter really that huge? Is the game completely terrible without having just the right ED? If you are enjoying playing the game as a certain class from 1 to 20 you will find that playing that same character once you get to 20 in the worst possible ED is actually very similar to playing it at level 19 except you have a few bonuses (the arcane caster ED's give +6 to two different saving throws which are helpful to all characters) and perhaps a few active abilities if you should choose to spend points on them.

    Unless you absolutely hated playing your character before getting access to ED's playing your character in a bad ED is not terrible or boring at all. I suppose there may be people that absolutely hate playing the game during levels 1 through 19 even when they are their favorite class and for those people playing levels 20+ in an off destiny may indeed be boring, but I would not expect those players to last much longer as it sounds like they don't really like the game much at all. If you cannot enjoy a character unless you are in exactly the right ED then you probably don't like that character. If you feel that way about all characters then you probably don't really like the game. Most players do seem to enjoy levels 1 through 19 and they enjoy those levels without being in exactly the right ED, so clearly the game can be a lot of fun even when you are not in the perfect destiny.
    Everyone who is not in the true definition of "hardcore" is looked down on as a "casual", unwilling or incapable of understanding the true brilliance of having twelve-year-olds insult you while they are teabagging your virtual corpse. - Christian Ward columnist for The Escapist

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by erethizon View Post
    I never really understood this attitude. When the cap was 20 we all played the game without ED's. Was playing the game so terrible back then? Was it really as "not enjoyable" as people make it sound today? To listen to people on these boards you would think that leveling from 1 to 20 as a fighter was the most terrible and unenjoyable torture imaginable and the only thing that makes it worth while is that once they get to 20 they can put on their legendary dreadnought ED and suddenly the game stops completely sucking. Is the difference between playing a level 19 fighter and a level 20 fighter really that huge? Is the game completely terrible without having just the right ED? If you are enjoying playing the game as a certain class from 1 to 20 you will find that playing that same character once you get to 20 in the worst possible ED is actually very similar to playing it at level 19 except you have a few bonuses (the arcane caster ED's give +6 to two different saving throws which are helpful to all characters) and perhaps a few active abilities if you should choose to spend points on them.

    Unless you absolutely hated playing your character before getting access to ED's playing your character in a bad ED is not terrible or boring at all. I suppose there may be people that absolutely hate playing the game during levels 1 through 19 even when they are their favorite class and for those people playing levels 20+ in an off destiny may indeed be boring, but I would not expect those players to last much longer as it sounds like they don't really like the game much at all. If you cannot enjoy a character unless you are in exactly the right ED then you probably don't like that character. If you feel that way about all characters then you probably don't really like the game. Most players do seem to enjoy levels 1 through 19 and they enjoy those levels without being in exactly the right ED, so clearly the game can be a lot of fun even when you are not in the perfect destiny.
    Sure heroic quests are fun without ED's but epic elite and even epic hard sometimes is not that much fun with absolutely no ED's, or such a crappy ED that it might as well be nothing. People now want streaks I guess which means running EE, or EH at least and to maximize the xp gain your most likely going to have to run it in your **** EDs for that toon........oh well I guess some have been complaining that the game is too easy, this might give some more of a challege.

  9. #49
    Community Member Daine's Avatar
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    D&D had a version of the current ED system a very long time ago in dual-classing, if you wanted to learn another class you couldn't use any skills of the old class or your xp wouldn't count towards the new class.

    Frankly the system makes sense to me, if you want to learn how to do something new, practice it, think about it and practice it some more. You don't become a concert pianist by doing weight-training in the gym.

    I did grind out a fully ED maxxed xp toon and even if I could, I wouldn't do it that way again, but it doesn't change the validity of the system for me, obviously mileage varies for others.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    It makes no sense whatsoever, from any standpoint, lore or mechanical, that someone should have to commit to a destiny to gain the XP. Thats like telling an arcane archer they have to commit to tempest if they want to spend points in it.

    It also makes no sense that someone should be forced to TR to enjoy the leveling experience. This is coming from someone who likes playing the entire game - but doesnt want to be forced to play an entirely different class on the same character just to level 2 destinies. If I wanted to play a wizard Id have rolled a wizard, or logged on my wizard. If I want to play a rogue, I should be able to choose a destiny, and then gain XP and spend the points how I see fit without the limitation of spending them in the same destiny I am committed to. We already know they can do this, because this is how AP works. You dont need to commit to mechanic to put points into the assassin tree.
    This is a very good point. If I don't have to level in my racial tree in order to put points in it I shouldn't have to level in an ED in order to put points in it. One of the major problems in this game is so many different systems that work completely differently. If you want to make this game more new / casual player friendly it is these systems that you can work on without emasculating the D&D feel of the game.

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by HAL View Post
    This is a very good point. If I don't have to level in my racial tree in order to put points in it I shouldn't have to level in an ED in order to put points in it. One of the major problems in this game is so many different systems that work completely differently. If you want to make this game more new / casual player friendly it is these systems that you can work on without emasculating the D&D feel of the game.
    Actually, the game is new/casual player friendly when it comes to the ED feature. Its the hardcore/grind players that must have the optimal ED(s) as fast as they can.
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  12. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    Currently,... Make it so Devs.
    /signed ... I really wanna see this i.e. staying in your main destiny while leveling other destinies.
    ~~~ ~ ~~~ turning each thread into a p2w discussion since 2012 ~~~ ~ ~~~

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by HAL View Post
    This is a very good point. If I don't have to level in my racial tree in order to put points in it I shouldn't have to level in an ED in order to put points in it..
    Did you find a way to put points in the dwarf tree while leveling as a warforged?

  14. #54
    Community Member mobrien316's Avatar
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    I haven't been a big fan of epic levels simply because, after you get there for the first time and level a character in their "best" destiny, you gimp yourself terribly in order to keep going. For example, once my sorcerer got to level 5 in Draconic Incarnation, I thought he was fairly powerful. But then I have to get rid of all the stuff (minus a twist or two) that makes him powerful in order to become a level zero Magister.

    When my Sorcerer gets done with Magister, he'll probably not get used much as I try to muddle through Fatesinger, Shadowdancer, and Legendary Dreadnought on my way to Shiraldi.

    I find myself getting each of my characters (expect my two TR junkies) to epic levels and playing a lot until they max their "best" destiny. Then I switch to another ED and hardly play them any more, and when I do, is just isn't as much fun as it could be. Everything that made my cleric a force to be reckoned with as a level 5 Exalted Angel got dumped in order to make him a mediocre character as he started on Unyielding Sentinel, and by the time he finally got to level 5 on that ED I had to totally gimp him to make him a level 0 Grandmaster of Flowers.

    I want to be getting more powerful as I level up, not less powerful and less able to contribute or even survive. My level 22 cleric with five levels of Exalted Angel? Awesome! The same cleric at level 22 with 0 levels of Unyielding Sentinel? Gimp. At level 23 or 24 with 5 levels of Exalted Angel and a twist from Unyielding Sentinel? Awesome again! The same cleric as a level 0 Grandmaster of Flowers? Gimpity-gimp-gimp-gimp.

    Luckily for me, I love the game and I don't mind that I keep TR-ing some of my characters and playing 1-20 again and again. It's still a ton of fun, certainly a lot more fun than taking my epic characters (who should be tremendously powerful by that point in their careers) and gimping them out completely so I can level in a destiny I'm not at all interested in.

    I'd love it if they changed it so you could stay in your preferred destiny while leveling another, because I feel like I'm missing out on a big part of the game because of the way they handle ED's.
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  15. #55

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    Quote Originally Posted by mobrien316 View Post
    I haven't been a big fan of epic levels simply because, after you get there for the first time and level a character in their "best" destiny, you gimp yourself terribly in order to keep going. For example, once my sorcerer got to level 5 in Draconic Incarnation, I thought he was fairly powerful. But then I have to get rid of all the stuff (minus a twist or two) that makes him powerful in order to become a level zero Magister.

    When my Sorcerer gets done with Magister, he'll probably not get used much as I try to muddle through Fatesinger, Shadowdancer, and Legendary Dreadnought on my way to Shiraldi.

    I find myself getting each of my characters (expect my two TR junkies) to epic levels and playing a lot until they max their "best" destiny. Then I switch to another ED and hardly play them any more, and when I do, is just isn't as much fun as it could be. Everything that made my cleric a force to be reckoned with as a level 5 Exalted Angel got dumped in order to make him a mediocre character as he started on Unyielding Sentinel, and by the time he finally got to level 5 on that ED I had to totally gimp him to make him a level 0 Grandmaster of Flowers.

    I want to be getting more powerful as I level up, not less powerful and less able to contribute or even survive. My level 22 cleric with five levels of Exalted Angel? Awesome! The same cleric at level 22 with 0 levels of Unyielding Sentinel? Gimp. At level 23 or 24 with 5 levels of Exalted Angel and a twist from Unyielding Sentinel? Awesome again! The same cleric as a level 0 Grandmaster of Flowers? Gimpity-gimp-gimp-gimp.

    Luckily for me, I love the game and I don't mind that I keep TR-ing some of my characters and playing 1-20 again and again. It's still a ton of fun, certainly a lot more fun than taking my epic characters (who should be tremendously powerful by that point in their careers) and gimping them out completely so I can level in a destiny I'm not at all interested in.

    I'd love it if they changed it so you could stay in your preferred destiny while leveling another, because I feel like I'm missing out on a big part of the game because of the way they handle ED's.
    I wouldn't mind having to level stuff I want to twist. If I want a tier 3 monk then i'll simply level up to tier 3. But Fate points should be unhooked from destinies. Maybe a system where you get an extra fate point for completing an entire destiny or sphere so people who enjoy that pain also gains a little extra.

    The main issue as I find it is that some destinies are just terrible for specific classes. No bones about it. Monk on a sorc? - no use for the ability points and 'running' faster can be cool - but the rest is completely counter intuitive. Only so I can get fate points to twist.

  16. #56
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    I think 1 fate point per epic level past 20, with each twist upgraded for 1 point. I think you still need to earn your abilities though.

    So end up with 8 fate points at 28, or 4/2/2 twists.

    No more super 20 characters (or sub 20's) destroying content with energy burst twisted. Lvl 24 twisted EB is more appropriate.

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Urist View Post
    Does it make sense that you have to commit to a class to gain XP in that class? What you're asking for, from my perspective, is akin to asking to be able to work toward a Wizard past life while playing as a pure rogue.
    Except that the current system is akin for a fighter to play using wizard enhancement trees to gain a barbarian past life.


    So you effectively want the advantages of having gaining experience in a destiny without having experienced the destiny? How does that make sense?
    No, I think what he want's are the fate points that can only be gained by wasting time in destinies that offer little else to that character.

    I don't think many are complaining about actually having to gain xp in destinies they actually plan on using. It's the gaining xp in destinies that make no sense because that's the only way to get the twists that do make sense, or because that's the way the paths are set up is are the major flaw with the system. It's not even something that is really difficult to do, just not a lot of fun. This has the effect, for me at least, of not really wanting to play as much.

    A better system would allow for the gaining of fate points while actually playing a character that's enjoyable. Removing the paths and tracking fate xp seperatly would make a lot more sense than spending a lot of time stuck on what is essentially an undestinied character. With the same time sink.

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by mobrien316 View Post
    I haven't been a big fan of epic levels simply because, after you get there for the first time and level a character in their "best" destiny, you gimp yourself terribly in order to keep going. For example, once my sorcerer got to level 5 in Draconic Incarnation, I thought he was fairly powerful. But then I have to get rid of all the stuff (minus a twist or two) that makes him powerful in order to become a level zero Magister.

    When my Sorcerer gets done with Magister, he'll probably not get used much as I try to muddle through Fatesinger, Shadowdancer, and Legendary Dreadnought on my way to Shiraldi.

    I find myself getting each of my characters (expect my two TR junkies) to epic levels and playing a lot until they max their "best" destiny. Then I switch to another ED and hardly play them any more, and when I do, is just isn't as much fun as it could be.
    I have a feeling this has happened to a lot of people and simply is the result of poor planning. When a character gets to level 20 you have to realize that you need 22 million experience to finish your ED's. You should look at what ED's are available and figure out which ones are your best ones, which ones are your worst ones, and which ones are in the middle. You save your best ED's for the harder content, use the worst ones on the easiest content, and use the middle ones on moderate content. If you are a sorcerer you have to decide do you want to start in the sorcerer destiny or do you start in the bard destiny since it grants access to sorcerer, wizard, and rogue destinies? If you do choose to start in sorcerer make sure the moment you get to level 3 you leave it and head over to bard. Save the rest of sorcerer for when you are on difficult content. Never get any destiny higher than is needed to move you to the nearby destinies (meaning get just 3 levels in each destiny or 4 if it is needed to move to another section). If you use this strategy you will never get addicted to level 5 power and then have to go down to level zero. After you get everything to 3, then you can get everything to 4 and only when everything is at 4 do you get anything to 5. The only possible exception to this rule might be leaving your best destinies at 3 while you get the worst ones to 5 so you will not get too used to playing in your best destinies.

    Obviously not everyone will use or approve of this strategy but no matter what strategy you choose, make sure it makes you happy. I have seen far too many people level their best destiny all the way to max before moving over to a level zero destiny and it tends to make for some very unhappy players (as this thread and countless others have shown). The results speak for themselves that such behavior is a poor strategy if your goal is to level all your destinies and enjoy the game in the process. If you barely get a destiny to level 3 before moving on to all the others you will find you are not addicted to all that power since most destinies do not have a lot of truly amazing abilities in just the first 3 levels and even if they do you can twist them in while leveling all the other destinies.
    Everyone who is not in the true definition of "hardcore" is looked down on as a "casual", unwilling or incapable of understanding the true brilliance of having twelve-year-olds insult you while they are teabagging your virtual corpse. - Christian Ward columnist for The Escapist

  19. #59
    Community Member Henky's Avatar
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    We have the best solution already in the game: XP stones from daily dice

    Just make that when we get epic xp, and that means when we are 20, we get stones instead the instant xp, make it BTC on acquire and make it dissappear if you TR (yeah, you dont want people keeping stones for TRs). And thats it, we do a quest in the best destiny, get our stones, switch destiny and use them, and turn back to our main destiny.

    Problem solved.

  20. #60
    Community Member Atremus's Avatar
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    It is too bad they couldn't implement a DDO Store only scicisor that could be used to level an off Destiny. But the exploiters did have to go and ruin that one

    I just started playing a character I rage TR'd before the date. It is painful to think about capping all destinies under this new XP system.
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