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  1. #121

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    Quote Originally Posted by bartharok View Post
    Its not about you, its about the attitude of a group of players. Its not a terrible system for me, because i dont make it one. If a group of players make a system terrible for themselves, they are not about to get any sympathy from me, quite the opposite.
    I get it, but that's like saying driving with square wheels is okay if you get a better springy seat to cushioning the bumpy ride. It's for nothing a game improve not just because of technical improvements but also to 'fix' something that doesn't work all that well. The destiny system is still on version 1.0. Just as Reavers refuge was once stuck on unknown runes until you baked them, which was a terrible system.

  2. #122
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bartharok View Post
    Its not about you, its about the attitude of a group of players. Its not a terrible system for me, because i dont make it one. If a group of players make a system terrible for themselves, they are not about to get any sympathy from me, quite the opposite.
    Plain and simple. The current system is not fun for me intentionally nerfing my character to eventually gain increased power. My character feels limited in its potential and I won't run content, high difficulties or be in a group when I can't play 100%.

  3. #123
    Community Member bartharok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by patang01 View Post
    I get it, but that's like saying driving with square wheels is okay if you get a better springy seat to cushioning the bumpy ride. It's for nothing a game improve not just because of technical improvements but also to 'fix' something that doesn't work all that well. The destiny system is still on version 1.0. Just as Reavers refuge was once stuck on unknown runes until you baked them, which was a terrible system.
    Im arguing the point that its not broken. It does not work for all playstyles, granted, but broken it is not. In other words, the wheels are round, but it has no suspension, so youd better not drive offroad with it.
    Dystopia = utopia achieved

  4. #124
    Community Member bartharok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    Plain and simple. The current system is not fun for me intentionally nerfing my character to eventually gain increased power. My character feels limited in its potential and I won't run content, high difficulties or be in a group when I can't play 100%.
    Its not nerfing your character. If you stick to one destiny, youll have no problem. well... as long as the destiny is appropriate for your toon, of course. The problem shows when you try to have it all. A bit late to say this since the toons you have are alrwdy at or close to cap i assume, but it would help to make a toon druid or ranger, then pick shiradi and TR into a sorc, or whatever (for example). Its the quest for power itself that winds up gimping you in my opinion.

    For all that, i can understand that it annoys you that you have to go the long way around to reach something you wish, but you can consider it a lesson in life. Which is rarely easy, and never fair.
    Dystopia = utopia achieved

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by bartharok View Post
    but you can consider it a lesson in life. Which is rarely easy, and never fair.
    Just a minor point Bartharok, but that's one of the reasons why I play video games.

    To forget about the fact that life is ****, if only for a little while.

    It's the same issue I have with the shards everywhere and links to the DDO Store from my character sheet.

    I don't need another reminder that life is **** and I have no money because there's sod all jobs here.

    I play games to forget this fact and hopefully immerse myself into it.

  6. #126
    Community Member bartharok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archangel_666 View Post
    Just a minor point Bartharok, but that's one of the reasons why I play video games.

    To forget about the fact that life is ****, if only for a little while.

    It's the same issue I have with the shards everywhere and links to the DDO Store from my character sheet.

    I don't need another reminder that life is **** and I have no money because there's sod all jobs here.
    I play because in here i can beat the unfairness, not because its absent.
    Dystopia = utopia achieved

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by bartharok View Post
    I play because in here i can beat the unfairness, not because its absent.
    Interesting outlook, and not a bad way to go about it.

    Just not sure I can take the same view (Though I don't begrudge the fact that you can).

  8. #128

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    Quote Originally Posted by bartharok View Post
    Im arguing the point that its not broken. It does not work for all playstyles, granted, but broken it is not. In other words, the wheels are round, but it has no suspension, so youd better not drive offroad with it.
    I get you; my argument is that it's not broken but a terrible design - just like Reavers refuge runes used to be. I'm sure there are those that thought that system was great.

  9. #129
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bartharok View Post
    Its not nerfing your character. If you stick to one destiny, youll have no problem. well... as long as the destiny is appropriate for your toon, of course. The problem shows when you try to have it all. A bit late to say this since the toons you have are alrwdy at or close to cap i assume, but it would help to make a toon druid or ranger, then pick shiradi and TR into a sorc, or whatever (for example). Its the quest for power itself that winds up gimping you in my opinion.

    For all that, i can understand that it annoys you that you have to go the long way around to reach something you wish, but you can consider it a lesson in life. Which is rarely easy, and never fair.
    What I am doing is working with a system that has flaws. The options don't make sense just to get around the parts that are not fun for me. I can either tough it out and not be happy leveling through off destinies, TR into a more fitting class to level through the unfun parts or not level through off destinies and not utilize the system that was offered to us. Those options suck and I hate to be THAT guy but I didn't pay for EDs to not take full advantage of it. I don't mean to sound self entitling, but I don't like paying for things that are not fun. TRing would take me longer to level through off destinies when I could just tough it out. Besides, I have all the past lives I want for my characters (melee) and you really don't want me to be in your group leveling as a sorc

  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryiah View Post
    You must have very low standards. Even more so to even mention Eveningstar, Sschindylryn, and Demonweb as those are the Korthos of Epic levels and not even remotely challenging on Epic Elite.


    My guild leader can do the exact same thing on his Monkcher. I've followed along before to watch him and it is pretty much him running backwards kiting everything he encounters, hitting the objective, and continuing on to the next. I will repeat what I stated - him soloing the quest with the remainder of the party piking is still faster than Epic Hard pugs.


    I never use the internal auto-attack feature of this game. Rather I run windowed, hold right-click, drag the cursor off the screen and click on the taskbar below. This creates the effect of auto-attack but can be disabled far quicker. While I do use it frequently I do so not because the group is frustrating but rather because my hands are tired or I am eating.

    On the topic of frustration though - never happens. This is partially because I am capable of holding my own in Epic Elite and partially because I stick primarily to guild and user channel groups. We completed the Wheloon Prison and Storm Horns content within a couple days after release on Epic Elite. We had many deaths but we succeeded on our first try. I seriously doubt most pugs came close to completing on that difficulty so soon.
    You realize the number of fom's that PUG right? You don't think monkchers PUG, or any other build flavor? You have this mistaken idea that only unguilded novices PUG? I'm sure your guild leader is fast on a monkcher, but fraps or it didn't happen.

    I didn't make a point about EE relative to the challenge. I said you could speed farm oh I don't know, most any chain with EN/EH content on an off destiny easily w/ PUGs. You're the one whose fingers got tired. I don't sit in a fights in EH wherever, long enough to have that issue.

  11. #131

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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    What I am doing is working with a system that has flaws. The options don't make sense just to get around the parts that are not fun for me. I can either tough it out and not be happy leveling through off destinies, TR into a more fitting class to level through the unfun parts or not level through off destinies and not utilize the system that was offered to us. Those options suck and I hate to be THAT guy but I didn't pay for EDs to not take full advantage of it. I don't mean to sound self entitling, but I don't like paying for things that are not fun. TRing would take me longer to level through off destinies when I could just tough it out. Besides, I have all the past lives I want for my characters (melee) and you really don't want me to be in your group leveling as a sorc
    My feeling as well; it's not about instant gratification because if the fate point system would be split from destinies it still wouldn't be instant. Same amount of XP would be needed to get them.

    What we have is just poor game design imho. Which is so abjectly adverse to how it works in heroic.

    Plus my philosophy is that this is just a game. It's entertainment - I pay to enjoy and have fun. If it's work then I suggest that whomever makes me work also pay me for doing it.

  12. #132
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Serious question . . . we all knew about the U19 XP changes . . . and people still left the EDs they wanted un-done before hand?

    getting all my EDs done in 2012 was the smartest thing I've ever done in DDO. Get a bottle of rum, turn on a movie, and pike Rusted Blades until all were done.

    Delayed gratification FTW. Spend a few weeks of pain for NOT EVER HAVING TO RUN OFF_DESTINY AGAIN!

    So since we knew these changes were coming . . . why didn't people prepare?

    Turbine will not wipe EDs, there is no way after the uprising that happened a few months ago.

    Still finding it hard to believe anyone except for new people hasn't had their EDs done for at least 6 months, it boggles the mind.

  13. #133

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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    Serious question . . . we all knew about the U19 XP changes . . . and people still left the EDs they wanted un-done before hand?

    getting all my EDs done in 2012 was the smartest thing I've ever done in DDO. Get a bottle of rum, turn on a movie, and pike Rusted Blades until all were done.

    Delayed gratification FTW. Spend a few weeks of pain for NOT EVER HAVING TO RUN OFF_DESTINY AGAIN!

    So since we knew these changes were coming . . . why didn't people prepare?

    Turbine will not wipe EDs, there is no way after the uprising that happened a few months ago.

    Still finding it hard to believe anyone except for new people hasn't had their EDs done for at least 6 months, it boggles the mind.
    I have maybe 1 or 2 hours per night. More on the weekend. With so many toons and I just can't overcome the gag reflex of doing rusted until my eyes bleed (I tried that and the other quest) just to unlock all destinies. Plus I have way too many toons to remain sane. Now I do my almost daily Von 3 and and switch often between toons just not to get burnt out. But I must confess that the xpack haven't helped. I can't seem to get the same milage out of it like I did MOTU and I just feel like taking a long break.

  14. #134
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by patang01 View Post
    I have maybe 1 or 2 hours per night. More on the weekend. With so many toons and I just can't overcome the gag reflex of doing rusted until my eyes bleed (I tried that and the other quest) just to unlock all destinies. Plus I have way too many toons to remain sane. Now I do my almost daily Von 3 and and switch often between toons just not to get burnt out. But I must confess that the xpack haven't helped. I can't seem to get the same milage out of it like I did MOTU and I just feel like taking a long break.
    lesser of two evils. Well . . . lesser of two boring activities.

    Rusted Blades for about 2 hours an ED was WAY better than gimping through EH stuff for a week. I'm sorry but the former is less painful than the latter.

  15. #135
    Community Member mobrien316's Avatar
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    You can say it's not broken, sure. Perhaps it is more accurate to say that the system is working as intended by forcing players to handicap themselves in order to advance. I get that some people don't mind that, but some do. Those that do are suggesting that many people would find it more fun to play if they didn't have to become less powerful in order to become more powerful, because intentionally making your character less powerful at epic levels is the opposite of what they would like to do.
    All on Thelanis: Archenpaul Sixblade, Archernicus Thornwood, Gregorovic Redcloak, Jaklomeo Evermug, Jarladdin Nalfesne, Jonathraxius Kane, and Praetoreus Silvershield.

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  16. #136

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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    lesser of two evils. Well . . . lesser of two boring activities.

    Rusted Blades for about 2 hours an ED was WAY better than gimping through EH stuff for a week. I'm sorry but the former is less painful than the latter.
    Maybe - but I feel like limping through content now seems like a better choice for my sanity then to bleed through face roll rusty sessions. I guess my lesser evil was the one that spared me. You're a much stronger mind

  17. #137
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    Yes.

    TR grinding a different class to improve the class you want to play was dumb.

    Grinding destinies is dumb and boring and encourage repetitive lame play.

    I would love more incentive for people to run epic elite; I would love to see the LFMs alive with ee questing, but people like incentives.
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  18. #138
    Community Member bartharok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mobrien316 View Post
    You can say it's not broken, sure. Perhaps it is more accurate to say that the system is working as intended by forcing players to handicap themselves in order to advance. I get that some people don't mind that, but some do. Those that do are suggesting that many people would find it more fun to play if they didn't have to become less powerful in order to become more powerful, because intentionally making your character less powerful at epic levels is the opposite of what they would like to do.
    And my point is that you got to earn the power.
    Dystopia = utopia achieved

  19. #139
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by patang01 View Post
    Maybe - but I feel like limping through content now seems like a better choice for my sanity then to bleed through face roll rusty sessions. I guess my lesser evil was the one that spared me. You're a much stronger mind
    I look at it this way . . . is it better to be toilet trained by age 3 or still need diapers until you're 25 but you only **** once a week?

  20. #140
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoBoDaClown View Post
    . . . . encourage repetitive lame play.
    Game, set, and match.

    Some people can't handle more than repetitive lame play. These are the people who couldn't hack it at end-game so instead TR 30 times. They also only play 1-2 toons and have all the time in the world to trudge through mediocrity.

    If ANY game mechanic encourages lame and repetitive play it needs to be changed.

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