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  1. #1
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    Default Monk Mountain Stance

    has something major happened to the mountan stance with update 19? first off i rarely see any monks using any other stance, which to me means that something is imbalanced here. second even monkchers use this stance and thus getting a lot aggro often times. im playing mainly melee toons and it becomes very annoying when the mobs always run pass me straight to the monkcher that shoots first and gets all the aggro. seems like strange game design or am i the only one experiencing this?

    my solution would be to limit weapon use in mountain stance just like other defender stances require s+b (not saying here monk should have s+b, but a archer in a defensive stance seems pretty stupid) or nerf the dps of mountain stance.

    thanks for listening

  2. #2
    Community Member walkin_dude's Avatar
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    I noticed that there are a good handful of enhancements now that buff mountain stance, and I didn't notice any improvements for the other ones. My guess is that is the reason for what you're noticing.

  3. #3
    Community Member Iriale's Avatar
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    Yes, there are not enhancement for the other stances.

    Too you can obtain the speed attack of air stance with the feat blinding speed or a speed item and his doublestrike with perfect TWF. Other stances than earth are now less shiny in the end game, although useful in levelling.

    Earth is not too powerful; don’t need a nerf. But if the other stances are forgotten by the devs, Earth wins.
    English is not my native language. Sorry for the mistakes.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by C-Shell View Post
    has something major happened to the mountan stance with update 19? first off i rarely see any monks using any other stance, which to me means that something is imbalanced here. second even monkchers use this stance and thus getting a lot aggro often times. im playing mainly melee toons and it becomes very annoying when the mobs always run pass me straight to the monkcher that shoots first and gets all the aggro. seems like strange game design or am i the only one experiencing this?

    my solution would be to limit weapon use in mountain stance just like other defender stances require s+b (not saying here monk should have s+b, but a archer in a defensive stance seems pretty stupid) or nerf the dps of mountain stance.

    thanks for listening
    Your still mad the Monchers are better than you. I think that should have been first because that's your real problem, right. Oh and could you explain to me how mountain stance is increasing dps. Threat generation has nothing to do with dps.

  5. #5
    The Hatchery Tevain's Avatar
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    from the Mountain Stance tooltip: Insight bonus to melee threat generation

    Ranged does not 'benefit' from the increased threat generation, they simply draw aggro because of their dps
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  6. #6
    Community Member Therigar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by C-Shell View Post
    has something major happened to the mountan stance with update 19?
    No, not really. In reality the move to Mountain began several updates ago when players noticed that haste and similar speed boosts were giving monks not using Wind stance the same attack speeds.

    What has happened in U19 is that this is easier to see for players because of how the enhancements are laid out and the amount of gear giving boosts to attack speed, double-strike, off-hand procs, etc. have increased. So, it isn't really a boost/nerf to monk stances so much as it is just a much clearer picture for players.

    I repeatedly mention that I am getting >100 AC and >100 PRR in Mountain stance with my L25 monk. That will only increase as I pick up levels 26-28.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tevain View Post
    from the Mountain Stance tooltip: Insight bonus to melee threat generation

    Ranged does not 'benefit' from the increased threat generation, they simply draw aggro because of their dps
    i see. so the thing is mainly because archers do any dps at all while i am trying to get to the monster. intimi is not always an option on epic elite with a twf guy. could hurt.

    but its kind of funny in situations where the mobs melee and i run pass each other straight to the enemies archers/casters and those get their ass beaten xD

    maybe i must change my playstyle and stop running after mobs that try to reach the ranged toons. so that those guys maybe learn that its not always wise to engage first in battle

  8. #8
    Community Member -Zephyr-'s Avatar
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    Mountain stance has been the best for years now. The fact enhancements suddently boost the best one even further... Yeah.
    As said by previous poster, the threat gen only affects melee attacks. If you loose aggro, it's because AAs got a nice DPS boost from enhancements, too.
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  9. #9
    Community Member Iriale's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Therigar View Post
    No, not really. In reality the move to Mountain began several updates ago when players noticed that haste and similar speed boosts were giving monks not using Wind stance the same attack speeds.

    What has happened in U19 is that this is easier to see for players because of how the enhancements are laid out and the amount of gear giving boosts to attack speed, double-strike, off-hand procs, etc. have increased. So, it isn't really a boost/nerf to monk stances so much as it is just a much clearer picture for players.
    This. Better explained as me (english is not my native language)

    But Earth is not too powerful. As I said before, the change is too because the other stances are less useful now.

    For example, one of my two monks was air-based, with earth and water as secondary stances. But now there aren’t touch of death procs for two weapon fighting nor doublestrike. So, I have lost the main reason for use Air. After, I can obtain the speed attack of Air by other means (items, feat), and a lot of doublestrike more. Now I think that Air is useless or a lot of less useful in the end game. Earth gives me hit points and PRR, Air gives me… nothing.

    I changed to Earth. Not because Earth is too shinny. It’s because Air is useless for me. If I could obtain a lot of procs of touch of death as before and this was the fastest attack stance, I would not have changed. Items (not only of this update) have favored Earth long ago, but new enhancements only for Earth and the touch of death nerf have almost killed the other stances. Earth and water wins now, and water always have needed a bit of love.
    English is not my native language. Sorry for the mistakes.

  10. #10
    Community Member TempestAlphaOmega's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tevain View Post
    from the Mountain Stance tooltip: Insight bonus to melee threat generation

    Ranged does not 'benefit' from the increased threat generation, they simply draw aggro because of their dps
    Or they are getting the agro because they are the first one doing damage.

    If he is adventuring with ranged toons that can't wait for melee to engage then the ranged toon is asking for the mobs attention. He should take advantage of it. If the issue is that he doesn't know how to take advantage of it or he just finds this too anoying then he needs to find people who have more compatible play styles.
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  11. #11
    Community Member Munkenmo's Avatar
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    I believe it was in November 2011 that the devs decided to play around with monk stances, they boosted them all, but not evenly.

    The bigggest mistake that was made was the massive offensive and defensive boosts to earth stance whilst leaving the rest behind. (especially fire)

    All they need to do now to greatly reduce the stance imbalance is:

    Remove the +1 crit multiplier from earth, moving it to fire instead.

    Ditching the shintao enhancements that boost earth's PRR in favor of a universal prr boost would help out too.

  12. #12
    Community Member redspecter23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fTdOmen View Post
    I believe it was in November 2011 that the devs decided to play around with monk stances, they boosted them all, but not evenly.

    The bigggest mistake that was made was the massive offensive and defensive boosts to earth stance whilst leaving the rest behind. (especially fire)

    All they need to do now to greatly reduce the stance imbalance is:

    Remove the +1 crit multiplier from earth, moving it to fire instead.

    Ditching the shintao enhancements that boost earth's PRR in favor of a universal prr boost would help out too.
    I agree with this. Earth stance is the best defensive stance and the best offensive stance while it provides unique benefits that other stances can't. Water stance gives more dodge, but you can cap your dodge without it. Air gives attack speed that you can just replicate with haste. Earth on the other hand offers stacking PRR which is extremely important to epic elite, stacking AC which can be a defensive factor while leveling, extra hp simply by raising your con score and an extra multiplier which stacks with all other multipliers.

    Having the offensive benefit in fire is probably how it should have been done in the first place. There is no balance between the stances right now and earth is clearly the best in 98.9% of situations. I might switch to water if I happen to need a saves boost for a particular encounter or nasty trap but that's about it.
    Last edited by redspecter23; 09-04-2013 at 08:49 AM.
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  13. #13
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    Oh and /not signed

    Quit calling for nerfs but just because your irritated wah wah awh moncher took my candy bar.

  14. #14
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    Earth stance :
    - 4 con(56 hp) +15 more hp if GMoF/ -2 dex, - 10% movement speed
    - +1 critcal multiplier on rolls of 19-20
    - 15 prr + 15 more GMoF +15 more Iron skin + 10 more with meditation of war= 55 prr
    - 3% increase to overall hp
    - +1 critical threat range when missed - works with displacement, incorpreal, and dodge


    Fire stance :
    - +4 str(+2 damage)/ -2 wisdom
    - gmof - + 1 [w]
    - shintao +2 damage +2 tactics (+1 after you lose your wisdom)


    Wind stance :
    - +4 dex/15% attack speed(can get elsewhere) / 10% ds/- 2 con
    - 3% ds gmof
    - 5% off hand ds

    ocean stance :
    - +4 wisdom / +5 saves / +4% dodge/ +1 passive ki regen/- 2 str
    - 3% dodge gmof
    - +5 max dodge


    Let me know if I missed anything but with whats there the stance are not even close to being balanced. Almost every stance has roughly the same dps, water having the least, wind having the most. They are all within 8 damage a hit overall. So you can either have your 4 damage a hit in wind over earth or you can have 101 more hp with 55 more prr and +1 critical threat range every time you are missed in combat. Tough choice. Like redspectre said there is absolutely no balance between stances right now, which makes everyone flock to earth. While they are not balanced I often find myself switching to ocean stance when I need to run through a trap for +5 saves, while charging ein, when using ein for +2 dc's. I guess wind could be used for ninja spy's, haven't even seen 1 yet, but could work for them. With the new enhancements even more people went to earth, kensai's who are centered and using robes need that extra 20 ish prr and the +1 crit multiplier is just icing. And the shintao tree gave another 25 prr and +1 crit threat range when missed. They just piled onto the already best stance. There is a little merit to wind stance with the ds chances for stunning/quivering palm but not enough to make people want to use it.

    IMO earth stance is fine, but the other stances need a huge buff

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by C-Shell View Post
    has something major happened to the mountan stance with update 19? first off i rarely see any monks using any other stance, which to me means that something is imbalanced here. second even monkchers use this stance and thus getting a lot aggro often times. im playing mainly melee toons and it becomes very annoying when the mobs always run pass me straight to the monkcher that shoots first and gets all the aggro. seems like strange game design or am i the only one experiencing this?

    my solution would be to limit weapon use in mountain stance just like other defender stances require s+b (not saying here monk should have s+b, but a archer in a defensive stance seems pretty stupid) or nerf the dps of mountain stance.

    thanks for listening
    Threat only works on the melee aspect, it's just that archers gain the first hit most times.

  16. #16
    Hatchery Hero Sonos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by C-Shell View Post
    i see. so the thing is mainly because archers do any dps at all while i am trying to get to the monster. intimi is not always an option on epic elite with a twf guy. could hurt.

    but its kind of funny in situations where the mobs melee and i run pass each other straight to the enemies archers/casters and those get their ass beaten xD

    maybe i must change my playstyle and stop running after mobs that try to reach the ranged toons. so that those guys maybe learn that its not always wise to engage first in battle
    Unless it is the ONLY mob, why on earth would you go running after it? If a ranged toon grabs aggro, yes, leave it alone and go fight something else.

    At end game I tend to Pin mobs and many times the melee will start working on that mob due to helpless dmg. This is annoying for me since I enjoy a nice boost to helpless dmg too in FOTW, but I allow for it, because it is a team effort. I usually then go off to another mob. This has nothing to do with Earth Stance and everything to do with who you play with and YOUR playstyle in particular. Improvise, adapt, and overcome.

  17. #17
    Community Member TheGuyYouKnow's Avatar
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    now that you dont need to be 18 monk for top tier stances anymore you can take a few extra feats and get the +1 crit multiplier on 19-20 from earth stance, its nice. also shintao monks only have enhancements for earth stance to make them more tanky so all the extra benefits outweigh air stances dps
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by moo_cow View Post
    Let me know if I missed anything but with whats there the stance are not even close to being balanced. Almost every stance has roughly the same dps, water having the least, wind having the most.
    You overlooked one buff which Water Stance provides: a +12% increase in shots fired while using 10Kstars.
    Now I am not saying this makes Water better than Earth. But it is not insignificant either.

  19. #19
    Community Member barecm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alfhild View Post
    You overlooked one buff which Water Stance provides: a +12% increase in shots fired while using 10Kstars.Now I am not saying this makes Water better than Earth. But it is not insignificant either.
    Also the Ki regen is pretty nice and saves a tier 1 twist. Also, the + to saves is nice as well. I still run mountain for the crit multiplier, but have run water stance and liked it in past lives.
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  20. #20
    Community Member goodspeed's Avatar
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    ok so let me get this right here... Your ticked that the stone wall back there with a bow is raining hell down, standing like andrew jackson murdering everything and then switching up and finishing the rest by the time you hobble over there?


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