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  1. #1
    Community Member redoubt's Avatar
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    Default could we go back to having meaningful AC and to hit numbers?

    We have lived with the "combat upgrade" for a while now and I do not think the new to-hit and AC calculations are better than the old way.

    The dice roll on the screen is meaningless to me now. The more I read about it the less it makes sense. I'm not arguing that some of the smart people who understand the new formula are wrong. In fact, I am sure that they are correct.

    My argument is that my to hit bonus plus the roll I see on screen should equal something that I can understand. If it does not, they why bother showing me either number? For the math, I can read them go through the formula that says a +76 and a roll of 10 is a hit and a +86 and a roll of a 2 is a miss. I can indeed follow that. But its stupid! My to-hit + my roll should mean something, but when a 76+10 (86) hits and a 86+2 (88) misses, then the numbers are meaningless.

    AC has also lost considerable meaning when you read the numbers. Because it does not directly relate to how effective it is.

    I guess the bottom line is that the logarithmic and relativistic formulas are frustrating. Can I figure them out? Yes, but I think it is overly complicated for no apparent reason. On the whole the last series of changes have simply complicated how we understand what our characters can and cannot do to the point that calculators are needed. I consider that bad. it has also simply shifted defense from an exercise in maxing out AC to maxing out dodge and PRR while dumping AC. Has that actually made things better? I this one person's opinion, the answer is no.

    Thanks for reading and have a nice day.
    /sigh

  2. #2
    Community Member redspecter23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redoubt View Post
    We have lived with the "combat upgrade" for a while now and I do not think the new to-hit and AC calculations are better than the old way.

    The dice roll on the screen is meaningless to me now. The more I read about it the less it makes sense. I'm not arguing that some of the smart people who understand the new formula are wrong. In fact, I am sure that they are correct.

    My argument is that my to hit bonus plus the roll I see on screen should equal something that I can understand. If it does not, they why bother showing me either number? For the math, I can read them go through the formula that says a +76 and a roll of 10 is a hit and a +86 and a roll of a 2 is a miss. I can indeed follow that. But its stupid! My to-hit + my roll should mean something, but when a 76+10 (86) hits and a 86+2 (88) misses, then the numbers are meaningless.

    AC has also lost considerable meaning when you read the numbers. Because it does not directly relate to how effective it is.

    I guess the bottom line is that the logarithmic and relativistic formulas are frustrating. Can I figure them out? Yes, but I think it is overly complicated for no apparent reason. On the whole the last series of changes have simply complicated how we understand what our characters can and cannot do to the point that calculators are needed. I consider that bad. it has also simply shifted defense from an exercise in maxing out AC to maxing out dodge and PRR while dumping AC. Has that actually made things better? I this one person's opinion, the answer is no.

    Thanks for reading and have a nice day.
    If it makes you feel any better, the devs are quite capable of backtracking on changes made with MotU. They just recently did away with nearly every weapon and equipment effect they added at that time. Weapons are currently so bland, I don't even have to look at them to know they're useless. Random elemental effect + tactics or heartseeker type effect or ghostbane on the end. Here's hoping they have a similar feeling toward the AC pass eventually.

    If the goal was to make AC useful in all content including endgame elite, then they failed miserably. If the goal was to make an average AC useful in normal content from level 1 to level 28 then they get a B- I suppose. I guess my point is that I don't quite understand what the incredibly confusing and convoluted AC pass was actually meant to do and if the devs feel they accomplished their goal.
    Kaarloe - Degenerate Matter - Argonnessen

  3. #3
    Community Member PermaBanned's Avatar
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    Yah, redoubt I'm with ya on the funky formulas, tbh THAC0 made more sense to me. However, I must also admit I'm afraid of what, if anything, they would put in it's place...
    Now excuse me while I wander off to arm myself with Grilled Cheese Sandwiches and hunker down behind my Armored Beer Refrigerator, while I have the UFO's take control of the Congresional Wives with the help of the International Cocaine Smugglers and the Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow - btw, do you have change for 10 million population?

  4. #4
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    Default

    One of these days I want to get a Dev to explain something to me.

    Defence Chance At Level. What's the point?

    If I have a 58% Defence Chance At Level, how the hell do I calculate my Defence Chance when fighting mobs 10 levels higher than me? (Anything on Elite after about level 9). Or 20+ Levels higher than me (Epic Elites).

    Do I have 2% less per level? 20%? 200%?

    Outside of Canith Challenges, we never actually fight anything At Level.

  5. #5
    Community Member redoubt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archangel_666 View Post
    One of these days I want to get a Dev to explain something to me.

    Defence Chance At Level. What's the point?

    If I have a 58% Defence Chance At Level, how the hell do I calculate my Defence Chance when fighting mobs 10 levels higher than me? (Anything on Elite after about level 9). Or 20+ Levels higher than me (Epic Elites).

    Do I have 2% less per level? 20%? 200%?

    Outside of Canith Challenges, we never actually fight anything At Level.
    Exactly... the number are meaningless in the current system.
    /sigh

  6. #6
    Community Member kraaal's Avatar
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    Default AC - whats that !

    Ac is almost irrelevant to me in terms of damage mitigation.dodge > PRR > AC.Surely that wasnt the developers intended result ?Dodge and PRR are easy to understand and easy to see their effectivness ...AC however is not!
    Officer of Cult of the Fallen
    Calamine, Calast, Sneeki-1, Starscreaming

  7. #7
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archangel_666 View Post
    One of these days I want to get a Dev to explain something to me.

    Defence Chance At Level. What's the point?

    If I have a 58% Defence Chance At Level, how the hell do I calculate my Defence Chance when fighting mobs 10 levels higher than me? (Anything on Elite after about level 9). Or 20+ Levels higher than me (Epic Elites).

    Do I have 2% less per level? 20%? 200%?

    Outside of Canith Challenges, we never actually fight anything At Level.
    I agree with this... the number is meaningless, because we never fight anything at level.
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    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago.
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    When you stop caring about xp/min this game becomes really fun. Trust me.
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    No single character has all the skills and resources needed to guarantee success in all endeavors; favorable results can usually only be achieved through group effort. No single player character wins, in the sense that he or she defeats all other player characters; the goal of the forces of good can only be attained through cooperation, so that victory is a group achievement rather than an individual one.

  8. #8
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    It would be meaningful if we knew how CR/levels affected the percent chance.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  9. #9
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    As others have said, they should just drop the AC system altogether and focus on PRR and DR. The U14 system is just ridiculous.

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