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  1. #1
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    Default Thanks for the changes to search

    Turbine thank you so much for your change in the searching function as a whole, just to make the secret door change worth your time and effort. You have no made it that rogues running at level on elite quests with 70+ search skills no longer find traps as they had in the past. Bravo for breaking another key function for a class.

    Not only can you not fixed the awesomiumprocess that is causing instability but you create things that prevent characters from doing essential functions. When are we getting any kind of effort to substantially address these issues?

    Additionally, you broke the high road quest line. If you do the series from Rina, she skips Freda's quest, and then you cannot get Olyn to talk to you.
    Last edited by Lerincho; 09-02-2013 at 07:14 PM.
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    Community Member FranOhmsford's Avatar
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    What Level are we talking about here?

    The Devs specified that there were going to be trap changes at all levels - Supposedly Lower Lvl traps would become easier {haven't tested yet} and Traps in Quests of Higher Level than Elite Cabal for One would FINALLY be of appropriate difficulties.

    Now Yes - Search is going to be an issue as 50 Search at Lvl 13 is Pretty d@rn high in my opinion and frankly anything higher than that is going to be very hard to get at that level {especially with Rogue Mech having lost some enhancement points and other Prestiges + Arti having lost a LOT!

    BUT if you're having trouble at Lvl 25 then I'm going to have to say that with a 70 Search you SHOULD BE HAVING TROUBLE!

    Gonna guess that there's gonna be some strange DCs for a while if the past is anything to go by BUT given time we should get used to the NEW Requirements just as we did to the Old!

  3. #3
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lerincho View Post
    When are we getting any kind of effort to substantially address these issues?
    After the dark era 10^100 years from now is my guess.
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    All I know is that on ENorm in one of the Wheloon quests I couldn't find a secret door with an 83. That seems a bit ridiculous. I guess I'm going to have to boost it somehow. I was able to find all of the traps btw, but not the door.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghoulstorm View Post
    All I know is that on ENorm in one of the Wheloon quests I couldn't find a secret door with an 83. That seems a bit ridiculous. I guess I'm going to have to boost it somehow. I was able to find all of the traps btw, but not the door.
    The big fat nerf to trapping skills was posted in beta, and of course ignored. Just another/finger to what remains of the customers.

  6. #6
    Community Member bartharok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghoulstorm View Post
    All I know is that on ENorm in one of the Wheloon quests I couldn't find a secret door with an 83. That seems a bit ridiculous. I guess I'm going to have to boost it somehow. I was able to find all of the traps btw, but not the door.
    It might be that the door was on the other side of the mirror?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghoulstorm View Post
    All I know is that on ENorm in one of the Wheloon quests I couldn't find a secret door with an 83. That seems a bit ridiculous. I guess I'm going to have to boost it somehow. I was able to find all of the traps btw, but not the door.
    The door in army of shadows is borked.

    Generally speaking:
    And no, on heroic elite or enorm, with a search score of 66+ to seventies you should be able to find every!! trap.

    What do they expect you to do? INT specc.ed trapper only finding traps? Well, I better take a Hire then a seemingly gimped toon....
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by FranOhmsford View Post
    What Level are we talking about here?

    The Devs specified that there were going to be trap changes at all levels - Supposedly Lower Lvl traps would become easier {haven't tested yet} and Traps in Quests of Higher Level than Elite Cabal for One would FINALLY be of appropriate difficulties.

    Now Yes - Search is going to be an issue as 50 Search at Lvl 13 is Pretty d@rn high in my opinion and frankly anything higher than that is going to be very hard to get at that level {especially with Rogue Mech having lost some enhancement points and other Prestiges + Arti having lost a LOT!

    BUT if you're having trouble at Lvl 25 then I'm going to have to say that with a 70 Search you SHOULD BE HAVING TROUBLE!

    Gonna guess that there's gonna be some strange DCs for a while if the past is anything to go by BUT given time we should get used to the NEW Requirements just as we did to the Old!
    I'm sorry but with a 70+ search as I do not always have GH available to me, there is nothing in Eberron that should not be elusive, and the the heroic forgotten realms quest should all be able to be found. This is not touching epic, purely heroic. Even in its hayday, the trap on Cabal could be found with a 70 search with a good roll. Oh but I forget we are not allowed to see the actual roll for searching as it is a "behind the scene" mechanic. It was complained about in Alpha in 2005 and I still say it was the wrong decision to not show the roll for searching.
    Last edited by Lerincho; 09-03-2013 at 07:59 AM.
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  9. #9
    Community Member Ivan_Milic's Avatar
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    Yea, its stupid what they did with dcs, will be funny when you see in party rogues that went full int so they can find the traps.
    Just another way for new players to gimp their chars.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghoulstorm View Post
    All I know is that on ENorm in one of the Wheloon quests I couldn't find a secret door with an 83. That seems a bit ridiculous. I guess I'm going to have to boost it somehow. I was able to find all of the traps btw, but not the door.
    Now I'm afraid to play my rogue!

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  11. #11
    Community Member FranOhmsford's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lerincho View Post
    I'm sorry but with a 70+ search as I do not always have GH available to me, there is nothing in Eberron that should not be elusive, and the the heroic forgotten realms quest should all be able to be found. This is not touching epic, purely heroic. Even in its hayday, the trap on Cabal could be found with a 70 search with a good roll. Oh but I forget we are not allowed to see the actual roll for searching as it is a "behind the scene" mechanic. It was complained about in Alpha in 2005 and I still say it was the wrong decision to not show the roll for searching.
    As far as i could tell there hasn't been a "Roll" for Search as long as I've been playing - It's a set DC and either you have the Search ability or you don't {No second chances!}.

    Basically...Considering Search and Disable use the Same Ability Score:

    Take Away 7 for +5 Tools and 5 for Crit Fail and that should be the Search DC for Said Trap.

    So Cabal For One Heroic Elite - Disable DC 73 Should have a Search DC of 61.
    Any Higher than that and the Devs are pushing Trappers a bit too hard in my view.
    TBH that Disable DCs silly high in the first place for it's level BUT come Lvl 20 wouldn't be anything special {Only the Devs long ago decided not to put any higher DCs into the game!}.

    They've changed their minds now and we're going to see Epic Traps with much higher DCs than Before - Get ready for them!

  12. #12
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    i'm with fran on this with regard to the mechanics, i've never seen search to be based on a roll. been playing from 6 months after first launch and when i first rolled up a rogue and read the forums and wiki to learn about the trap mechanics that is what i found, no roll for search, roll with potential crit fail for disable and roll as much as you like for open lock.

    what you're saying about the Dc's though is worrying, my rogue is moving through a TR at the moment and it's left me wondering how much farming for gear i will have to do before i can enjoy the new content. on the plus side i am looking at a swap to INT based for the assassin DC so maybe the quests will be a bit more forgiving in that respect. still sucks for non INT based trappers though, i have no beef with 1 splash rogues doing traps, means i get to spend more time putting bolts in mobs backs and playing with my new assassin tricks on my mechanic.

    if there needs to be some reward for more focus on trap abilities then it should be for optionals, not for the main quest.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by FranOhmsford View Post
    What Level are we talking about here?

    The Devs specified that there were going to be trap changes at all levels - Supposedly Lower Lvl traps would become easier {haven't tested yet} and Traps in Quests of Higher Level than Elite Cabal for One would FINALLY be of appropriate difficulties.

    Now Yes - Search is going to be an issue as 50 Search at Lvl 13 is Pretty d@rn high in my opinion and frankly anything higher than that is going to be very hard to get at that level {especially with Rogue Mech having lost some enhancement points and other Prestiges + Arti having lost a LOT!

    BUT if you're having trouble at Lvl 25 then I'm going to have to say that with a 70 Search you SHOULD BE HAVING TROUBLE!

    Gonna guess that there's gonna be some strange DCs for a while if the past is anything to go by BUT given time we should get used to the NEW Requirements just as we did to the Old!
    I tried to find the Box in Heytons Krypt elite, true i had only 8 search (14 int) at that point.
    But its a bit ridicules that even with a 20 you cant find the box.

    Yupp its no big deal and i usually do not disarm traps till lvl9+ (except for the 2 in STK) and even then i do not need to disarm them because my chars have evasion but its Bad Game Design to require gear on a char that cant get the needed gear before he finishes quests which are set after this quest.
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  14. #14
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    i'm currently running my rogue thru his most recent TR (when i hit 20 he'll join the ranks of "Lord of Shadows" in R.O.G.U.E.) i was somewhere around 16-17 when the expansion hit. i run an elite streak with my husband. SO FAR... i've yet to find a trap, door, or chest that i've not been able to find,disable, or pick. not only that, but i'm an elf with "nothing is hidden" and most of the time (if i bother to keep myself buffed with GH at ALL times) i don't even need to search the traps out... and that's at a -4 penalty.

    not seeing a problem. if there is one, it's alot lower, or higher, than i am right now.

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  15. #15
    Community Member FranOhmsford's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daemoneyes View Post
    I tried to find the Box in Heytons Krypt elite, true i had only 8 search (14 int) at that point.
    But its a bit ridicules that even with a 20 you cant find the box.

    Yupp its no big deal and i usually do not disarm traps till lvl9+ (except for the 2 in STK) and even then i do not need to disarm them because my chars have evasion but its Bad Game Design to require gear on a char that cant get the needed gear before he finishes quests which are set after this quest.
    There is NO Roll for Search so NO 20!

    Your Search was 8!

    The DC for Heyton's Elite is around 10-12 for Search:

    Lvl 3 = 6
    Int 14 = 8
    Minute Seeing 3 item {a Newbie should have this by Elite} = 11
    Multiple Tier 1 Awareness Enhancements - An easy 12

    You could add to that 2 Wiz/1 Rogue {Drow} with Base 20 Int, a +2 item, +2 Shipbuffs, Spider Mask, Skill Focus: Search, Minute Seeing +5 item is possible at Lvl 3....

  16. #16
    2016 DDO Players Council Jeromio's Avatar
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    Noticed yesterday, when running Vale quests that trap DC had gone up. My Jugg couldn't neither spot or find the force trap boxes in elite Coal Chamber, which used to have a DC in the low 40:ies before U19. His search was 48.

    Time to add some better gear and and some search enhancements.
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by FranOhmsford View Post
    The DC for Heyton's Elite is around 10-12 for Search:

    Lvl 3 = 6
    Int 14 = 8
    Minute Seeing 3 item {a Newbie should have this by Elite} = 11
    Multiple Tier 1 Awareness Enhancements - An easy 12

    You could add to that 2 Wiz/1 Rogue {Drow} with Base 20 Int, a +2 item, +2 Shipbuffs, Spider Mask, Skill Focus: Search, Minute Seeing +5 item is possible at Lvl 3....
    All these buffs are BS for Heytons Rest.
    These need to be achievable with next to nothing.
    The whole Korthos island is the training starter for newbies.. take snowy side for instance... no buffs, no ship, no gear.


    Veterns and TR's who skip the snowy side to go to the ship and get TR gear and ship buffs, pots and all the extra's are not having an issue.
    Besides, most Veterns dont bother with Korthos except for favor and dont give a rats sss about doing any of the traps.. its a elite zerg fest.
    Last edited by JOTMON; 09-03-2013 at 10:40 AM.
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  18. #18
    Community Member Ivan_Milic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeromio View Post
    Noticed yesterday, when running Vale quests that trap DC had gone up. My Jugg couldn't neither spot or find the force trap boxes in elite Coal Chamber, which used to have a DC in the low 40:ies before U19. His search was 48.

    Time to add some better gear and and some search enhancements.
    Yea, I couldnt find them on my Jugg either.

  19. #19
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    For those that did not read my post carefully let me restate. In alpha test in 2005 it was request to have a visible roll for searching. Obviously it was not incorporated as there is no roll.

    You all have made my case that a 70 search should be more than enough for heroic elites
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  20. #20
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    Default It's no coincidence...

    ...that they nerfed trapping abilities and stealth abilities at roughly the same time that Skill Improvement Tomes became available in the DDO Store. Shameless money grab.

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