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  1. #1
    Community Member Shados_Draconioas's Avatar
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    Default The Elf Enchanter/Evoker challenge

    Ok, so I know many MANY people have strong opinions on casters (both sorc and wizards) as far as prestige classes and proper races. This has nothing to do with "Warforged are the best casters" and "only use elf if you're going pale master for self-healing". This is simply a question... a possible challenge, if you will accept it. So by all means, listen, and then join the creative team...

    Elves can be strong casters. Yes, Warforged gain self-healing and pale masters do also. But what about Archmage? Before the enhancement revamp, my elf was an archmage with enchantment as primary, evocation as secondary for his schools. His DC's were not as high as others have been, since I had decided to make my archer my primary toon. But since I've done (almost) all I can with him, I have looked over my other toons and come back to this one. and I'm having trouble figuring out this build. So I'm asking for help and insight into trying to tinker with him to get him to do what he should be able to, within certain guidelines:

    1- He must be Elf.
    2-His primary/Secondary schools are Evocation and Enchantment. I admit to being partial to using the SLA's for Evocation.
    3- He must be an Archmage first- although I don't mind snagging the INT bonuses from Pale Master (but he will not use it's shrouds).

    Currently at level 22, his focus in the Magister ED is Enchantment.
    His gear is completely changeable. He currently uses the Epic Illusionists Robe (for +7 int), has a dreamspitter for it's Enchantment bonus, but nothing is permanent here. I mean, I've been using the bracers/gloves of the glacier for the longest time. I think it's time to update his gear by now.

    So my question: What is the highest I can get his INT and Enchantment DC's without sacrificing his race, SLA's, and taking the pale-master shrouds? And how would you get this accomplished?
    "Dumazz!! OPEN THE DOOR!" ~famous last words before the wraiths killed him when Dumazz accidently locked him out of the shrine~
    Master Kylanos, Second in Command of Humorous Dumazz Deaths

  2. #2
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    IIUC, you can no longer take more than one Archmage school specialization. So I was actually thinking elven Archmage Enchanter + Pale Master wraith would be a pretty potent combo. You'd want to spend 14 APs in elf tree to max Enchantment Lore + Arcanum (+1 DCs +3 Spell Pen); at least 41 APs in Archmage to get capstone; leaving 25 pts to spend on PM, which is enough for wraith + a couple of T4 enhs. Or reverse that so you spend 41 APs in PM for lich + capstone and 25 APs in AM, which gets you Specialization IV.

    But since you want Enchanter / Evoker, I have no advice to give you.

  3. #3
    Community Member bsquishwizzy's Avatar
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    Honestly, from what I’ve seen, going down the PM appears to be something that will hurt your overall build in the end. I say this, mainly because you’re going for Wraith form, and self-healing, but leaving a lot of necro power on the cutting room floor. Plus – and this is without doing the math - I think that by going PM you’re going to take it in the shorts when it comes to getting 3 levels of Arcanum, which can compensate for a feat to boost either Enchantment or Evocation (whichever you want to make the top dog).

    Trying to go from memory here, when I re-did my elf PM, I went a big portion of the PM tree (I didn’t bother with the skelly summons), took enough elf tree to get me Arcanum, then spent the rest to get as much spell pen in AM as I could. This way I could bypass a spell pen feat. The only mob whose spell pen I cannot overcome is Drow on EH (sometimes) and EE (almost all of the time). If you go enchant, you’re going to need spell pen.

    Seeing that you’re going AM, you’ve got a good spell pen foundation, and 3 levels into Arcanum will be a big help. But after filling most of the tree, I don’t quite see how you make it to Wraith in the PM tree. You might just have to limit yourself to Vampire, and stand really, really far away in quests where casters spam light spells. Because, in those situations, it is going to get REALLY ugly.

    As for what SLAs to take, Enchantment sounds nice if you want power in your CC, but at a more practical level Evocation looks REALLY attractive. Honestly, do you think you’ll be able to spam a Hold Person or Hold Monster SLA in EE (if that’s where you are going)? Maybe Hypnotism as a de-buff, but Enchantment line’s bread-and-butter are mass CC spells, not singular ones. Ottos Irresistable Dance may be the exception to this, but most PUGs expect mass CC. My thought it that when you get to epic levels, maybe go Magister if you want CC in epic levels, and focus on Enchantment.

    Just some random thoughts I thought I’d throw in on this subject.

  4. #4
    Community Member bsquishwizzy's Avatar
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    Oh as another consideration, going the route you intend to go opens up the door for that War Wizard's set in Eveningstar in lower epic levels.

  5. #5
    Community Member Lycurgus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shados_Draconioas View Post
    So my question: What is the highest I can get his INT and Enchantment DC's without sacrificing his race, SLA's, and taking the pale-master shrouds? And how would you get this accomplished?
    May be missing a few things, but the numbers work out something like this:

    Int
    18 base
    7 lvl
    5 tome
    11 item
    3 ins
    1 exc
    3 enhancement
    2 capstone
    2 ship buff
    6 ED
    =58

    2 yugo pot
    2 completionist
    1 epic feat
    3 twists
    1 profane (litany)
    1 for the 2nd enhancement point in the PM tree (requires 20 pts spent in PM tree)
    =68

    Enchantment DC
    10 base
    9 spell level
    3 feat
    24 int mod (at 58 int)
    2 AM enhancement
    1 House P ship buff
    5 item (Nether orb)
    2 item (Stormreaver's Tablecloth)
    3 Magister
    1 bard song
    1 Wiz active past life
    1 Bard active past life
    =62 DC with 58 int (67 DC at 68 int)

    The enhancement pass heavily favors playing as a drow PM if you intend to focus on DC casting, unfortunately.
    Last edited by Lycurgus; 09-05-2013 at 08:47 AM.



  6. #6
    Community Member Shados_Draconioas's Avatar
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    I know everyones end goal is running EE, but I'm content with running EH on this guy. It's more for those times when I'm not going all out into the quests.

    I HAVE a drow PM. and he works fine for EE, although not perfectly as he lacks some gear (ex- litany)

    And I'm not too interested in Wraith. It's fun, but that's PM, and I have one. I'm just trying to figure out how it'll look, I guess.
    "Dumazz!! OPEN THE DOOR!" ~famous last words before the wraiths killed him when Dumazz accidently locked him out of the shrine~
    Master Kylanos, Second in Command of Humorous Dumazz Deaths

  7. #7
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    Here's just some personal opinions and prior experience with my elf wizard.

    My wizard prior to the new enhancements was a elf pale master who used lich form and was necro focused. He also has 3 past lives of wizard and favored soul so he was built for breaking epic elite drow spell pen at the time. Even so once epic giant hold came out DC casting kind of took a hit so I kind of benched him for awhile until update 19.

    When the new enhancements came out I decided to use my Free LR first and just respec him back to a level 20 wizard but decided to try something different and went enchantment focused and decided to give vampire form a shot for the +2 enchantment DC.

    Vampire form did get a little love and only takes x3 damage instead of quad damage like before. This can also be reduced to only x2 like the other forms if you went to tier 5 in pale master and take the shroud improvement.

    I personally did not take the shroud improvement though because I wanted to go tier 5 in arch mage to get the extra enchantment DC's. In the end he was pretty good crowd control in what I tested. Could of done more testing tho in the new content. If I recall correctly I had hit 59 enchantment DC which was good but not perfect. But my gear could also be improved to take that higher looking at the breakdown posted.

    I did not use my twists for INT though. Just the INT in the magister/draconic trees.

    I did twist in the embrace the light from exhaulted angel for the 30% reduction from light damage since I was using vamp form. It helped take the damage down a lot on EE searing lights. But if you get stacked up by Divine punishment your going to be in trouble more then likely.

    I did have fun playing him until I decided to go into my custom splash shiradi wraith build which for my play style I enjoy a lot more.

    Looking at the DC breakdown that was posted it seems like you could hit a DC worthy of the new epics on elite but that would take the perfect gear setup. I am not sure what the current desired DC is for the new epic elites.

    Obviously your not going for the undead forms but I just wanted to tell my opinion of my use of vampire form.

    If your happy with just doing epic hard tho which I think you said. You should be able to remain effective with any of the good enchantment builds. At least I think so.
    Last edited by KingofDiamondz; 09-28-2013 at 10:47 PM.
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  8. #8
    Community Member Lycurgus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shados_Draconioas View Post
    I know everyones end goal is running EE, but I'm content with running EH on this guy. It's more for those times when I'm not going all out into the quests.

    I HAVE a drow PM. and he works fine for EE, although not perfectly as he lacks some gear (ex- litany)

    And I'm not too interested in Wraith. It's fun, but that's PM, and I have one. I'm just trying to figure out how it'll look, I guess.
    My previous post was intended to answer your question. That's basically the breakdown for an elven AM and assumes no use of PM shrouds.

    On edit, there's an additional +1 to your enchantment dc from the elven enhancements.
    Last edited by Lycurgus; 09-29-2013 at 04:56 PM.



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