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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by matezzo View Post
    Hi!

    I'm a returning player, find this new enhncement system a bit confusing yet, I would like to hear some ideas about how to optimize a my gf's character, a cleric/fighter halfling who uses great axes.

    So far there is a lvl 6 cleric/ lvl 1 fighter lawful good halfling (for flavor) I'd like to continue from here, but have that lesser lr +20 if really necessary. The char in it's second life (we TR-ed when we came back to start from lvl 1)

    starting stats:
    s: 15 (all lvl up here)
    d: 10
    c: 14
    i: 12 (to have max heal, spellcraft, conc, some jump..)
    w: 14
    ch:13 (to use divine might later)

    in previous life it was 18 cleric/2 fighter, want something similar: so a melee great axe user with spells. But the game has changed a lot.. in the past getting fighter 2 for the str enhancement was a good deal, but now there are many other sources of damage as i see, less feat requirements for prestige classes.

    any idea how to develop the character? no clonk, please, i think it's too late to get rogue levels unless lr again. i was thinking 19 cleric/1 fighter, or maybe 14 cleric/6 fighter (divine might+ kensei psionic stuff fo high str)
    I'd like to have big melee dps, but i also think the new spell like abilities are good options even w/o big investments (searing light for exmaple). I1d like to hear ideas about which tree is the best for this character. in the past it had the healing aura and my gf liked it.

    thx
    Seems to me like the goal is more of just leveling to have some fun, so we will ignore anything related to epics.

    Try out the divine disciple tree for the SLAs, but be sure to pick up maximize and empower first, there is no added cost with these on the way up. I have my own divine disciple and love it, especially out in desecrated temple of vol. Won't have all the fancy bursts and such for healing, but if something is already dead before it hits you do you need the healing?

    A second option would be the defensive tree, at tier 5 it gives a permanent blur, and adds the spell into the cleric book at level 3 i think. Great if you don't have a wizard/bard/sorc to pass out blur. Various stuff in the tree will boost hitpoints and armor class, making the cleric more durable when in there swinging the greataxe. Not tried one myself (i did try a mix of one with 6 cleric and 6 paladin but did not run a lot of quests), but it should be pretty tough and need less healing. I'd think grab empower heal then whatever other feats you wanted.

  2. #22
    Community Member Soulfurnace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by firemedium_jt View Post
    !!!!!!!!!!!! Maximize is free spell power with all the new SLAs !!!!!!!!!!!


    SLAs rock and almost gimp all melee clerics with the damage they put out. The new SLAs at least humble my melee output Soulfurnace, and I bet they would yours too.

    The new spell rays and bolts are nice too.
    Cool story. If the SLA's "gimp" your melee cleric (not that gimping it would be hard, based off what you've said), you should probly build for spells.
    Mate, I'm done arguing with you. You refuse to even listen to logic, instead spouting out the same stuff you have from the start. (except you now contradict yourself)

    If I can solo EE, it's viable. Now go away, maybe go outside. Us "young punks" have some things to do.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soulfurnace View Post
    Cool story. If the SLA's "gimp" your melee cleric (not that gimping it would be hard, based off what you've said), you should probly build for spells.
    Mate, I'm done arguing with you. You refuse to even listen to logic, instead spouting out the same stuff you have from the start. (except you now contradict yourself)

    If I can solo EE, it's viable. Now go away, maybe go outside. Us "young punks" have some things to do.
    You are in the minority on this thread and most of the forum, but that is ok. I like the advice that bucks the tends, but you seem to be critical of those that do that too which is really funny. It does not sound like you gimped your healing much. That is hard to do on a Cleric, and most others don't care what you do as long as you can heal or whatever it is your static group likes because it sounds like you don't pug much for some reason.
    Your lack of healing amp not my problem. Please buy and use your own remove curse pots in combat, so I don't waste mana. Not my job.

  4. #24
    Community Member Soulfurnace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by firemedium_jt View Post
    You are in the minority on this thread and most of the forum, but that is ok. I like the advice that bucks the tends, but you seem to be critical of those that do that too which is really funny. It does not sound like you gimped your healing much. That is hard to do on a Cleric, and most others don't care what you do as long as you can heal or whatever it is your static group likes because it sounds like you don't pug much for some reason.
    I either PUG or solo. I don't healbot, ever. I just tend to group with decent players, strangely enough.

  5. #25
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    I think a str-based, melee destiny battle cleric should go for full radiant servant with aura. I still think maximize is a must even when str based, but Id skip empower and heighten.
    -all out melee has problems with spellpower feats and gear, and no DCs
    -time casting spells is less time meleeing, at probably lower damage

    My wis-based clonk in GMoF can melee, but is going for divine disciple, with rs only at burst level and maybe endless turning. With high evo DCs, the SLAs make more sense even though they are not the only source of damage. I might consider a respec if I notice that divine disciple SLAs just dont cut it at epic level (which i suspect), but it will be fun leveling up.
    Zeugen der Dreizehn, Thelanis:
    Makkuroi, chain TR: currently drow pure caster warlock
    PLs: Completionist; 3xWiz, Sor; 2x Pal, Brd, Monk EPLs: 3x CotQ,Brc,DS,EW,EC 1xFH,PLD ; IPLs: 2x BF; 3x PDK, SDK

  6. #26
    Community Member Soulfurnace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Makkuroi View Post
    I think a str-based, melee destiny battle cleric should go for full radiant servant with aura. I still think maximize is a must even when str based, but Id skip empower and heighten.
    -all out melee has problems with spellpower feats and gear, and no DCs
    -time casting spells is less time meleeing, at probably lower damage
    Full radiant? Max radiant tree? That seems.. silly. Other trees offer things to increase dps (by a lot), saves, positive energy, etc.

    The rest is all down to opinion and I'm frankly done arguing opinions on this thread. I've stated mine.. once or twice. lol

  7. #27
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    By full radiant I mean going tier 5 for the aura, shutting you out from other tier 5 enhancements. DD tier 5 is flame strike and some casting stuff, and protector I dont even remember, cant have been too attractive.
    Zeugen der Dreizehn, Thelanis:
    Makkuroi, chain TR: currently drow pure caster warlock
    PLs: Completionist; 3xWiz, Sor; 2x Pal, Brd, Monk EPLs: 3x CotQ,Brc,DS,EW,EC 1xFH,PLD ; IPLs: 2x BF; 3x PDK, SDK

  8. #28
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    Neg energy burst is really a nice touch during melee tosoften them up and cheap with all metas on. I love it. You really need maximize for it too.

    Necrotic Ray is my fav spell when I ran my Pale Master with guaranteed neg lvl each hit. I dont use metas for it. It is 5x the cost for 2x damage. Metas dont help it as much, but it is great for weakening orange/red names. No spell resistance and the save is just for the damage. No save or SR for the guaranteed neg lvl. Cheap at 10 sp.

    I tried the positive version but the blindness just does not seem as effective. It can be saved against. The damage is a little more for the spells. Instead of going force and light I just went universal spell power.
    Last edited by firemedium_jt; 09-08-2013 at 11:16 PM.
    Your lack of healing amp not my problem. Please buy and use your own remove curse pots in combat, so I don't waste mana. Not my job.

  9. #29
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    I think ill go positive DD, damage is slightly better and works against undead and constructs, plus the blindness helps getting sneaks from ninja spy in. Of course Ill take general spellpower for healing, blade barrier, light and fire, and evo DCs on the last tiers. I just got that +4 evo necklace with min lvl 15 from wheelon, which will help with implosions etc.

    heroic evo dcs:

    10
    +9 (spell level/heighten)
    +3 feats (sorc PL, wiz active PL, evo focus)
    +4 item
    +2 enh
    +1x from wis

    38+x

    epic:
    +3 GMoF wis
    +3 Magister evo twist
    +x more wis from gear and epic wisdom
    Zeugen der Dreizehn, Thelanis:
    Makkuroi, chain TR: currently drow pure caster warlock
    PLs: Completionist; 3xWiz, Sor; 2x Pal, Brd, Monk EPLs: 3x CotQ,Brc,DS,EW,EC 1xFH,PLD ; IPLs: 2x BF; 3x PDK, SDK

  10. #30
    Community Member guardianx2009's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by firemedium_jt View Post
    Neg energy burst is really a nice touch during melee tosoften them up and cheap with all metas on. I love it. You really need maximize for it too.
    What is the average damage on Neg Energy Burst? I tested it with maximize (no empower) and it was ~180. Which isn't much at all. I'm not so sure it is worth the investment.

    Quote Originally Posted by firemedium_jt View Post
    Necrotic Ray is my fav spell when I ran my Pale Master with guaranteed neg lvl each hit. I dont use metas for it. It is 5x the cost for 2x damage. Metas dont help it as much, but it is great for weakening orange/red names. No spell resistance and the save is just for the damage. No save or SR for the guaranteed neg lvl. Cheap at 10 sp.
    Neg levels do not work on red names. At best it works on orange names.

    Energy Drain (9th level spell) in general is more efficient at draining neg levels. Necrotic Ray drains 1 level each time, you have to cast it 5 times to get -5 levels. Energy Drain can do that in one shot (2d4 neg levels). Combo it with Enervate Scroll (1d4 neg levels) and you drain a lot more levels in the time it takes for you to cast 1, 2 necrotic rays.


    Quote Originally Posted by firemedium_jt View Post
    I tried the positive version but the blindness just does not seem as effective. It can be saved against. The damage is a little more for the spells. Instead of going force and light I just went universal spell power.
    Positive does seem to do a bit more damage in general. None of the SLAs seem as good as Avenging Light in terms of damage and sp cost, however.

    I'm trying to see what all the rave about Divine Disciple is, but I just don't see how it is worth giving up the aura for.
    Last edited by guardianx2009; 09-11-2013 at 07:42 AM.

  11. #31
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    In my opinion the selling points of divine disciple are the +2 evocation DCs and the general spell power. The higher SLAs are nice, but probably wont cut it at epic levels (I mostly TR). Radiant servant just doesnt offer any attack except against undead. Ill definitely try dd, if it doesnt work out at higher levels, ill get the aura. Defender seems just meh.
    Zeugen der Dreizehn, Thelanis:
    Makkuroi, chain TR: currently drow pure caster warlock
    PLs: Completionist; 3xWiz, Sor; 2x Pal, Brd, Monk EPLs: 3x CotQ,Brc,DS,EW,EC 1xFH,PLD ; IPLs: 2x BF; 3x PDK, SDK

  12. #32
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    Problem is my Cleric builds are melee, so I have no spell penetration. I splash 2-3 levels. My main build is more of a generalist. He has a +4 Wisdom tome and I did not dump wisdom. My STR and WIS are in the mid 30s.

    Problem is that Energy drain can be saved against and can be spell resisted. I figure with these numbers I might miss with energy drain. That is a lose of 50 sp min if it misses. It is faster, but not more spell point efficient. Necrotic ray is guaranteed neg lvl. It is hard to waste the sp when you know it equals a heal spell unless you don't need to heal.

    So how often does your energy drain miss? What are your numbers for DC and Spell Pen? How often will it miss in EH and EE?
    Your lack of healing amp not my problem. Please buy and use your own remove curse pots in combat, so I don't waste mana. Not my job.

  13. #33
    Community Member guardianx2009's Avatar
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    A little secret: Enervation, Energy Drain spells do NOT have saves. They only have spell pen.

    So to answer your question:
    Quote Originally Posted by firemedium_jt View Post
    So how often does your energy drain miss? What are your numbers for DC and Spell Pen? How often will it miss in EH and EE?
    Never, unless terrain or another mob gets in the way.

    Quote Originally Posted by firemedium_jt View Post
    What are your numbers for DC and Spell Pen?
    DCs: Mid to high 40s. Spell Pen: don't know, never bothered.


    Quote Originally Posted by firemedium_jt View Post
    How often will it miss in EH and EE?
    Never misses, I do not bother using it on mobs with SR.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by guardianx2009 View Post
    What is the average damage on Neg Energy Burst? I tested it with maximize (no empower) and it was ~180. Which isn't much at all. I'm not so sure it is worth the investment.
    Thing is it is a SLA, so it is only 7sp. With Empower it is a little more damage. Over 200. Cheap at 7 SP for damage output. More bang for the buck vs. Blade Barrier. Blade Barrier they have to move in and out, and might have evasion on top of that.


    I think Neg Energy Burst heals fellow Pale Masters?
    Last edited by firemedium_jt; 09-12-2013 at 02:10 PM.
    Your lack of healing amp not my problem. Please buy and use your own remove curse pots in combat, so I don't waste mana. Not my job.

  15. #35
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    thanks for the replies to my question ((for some reson i couldn't post to my thread until now, when I made a new account..))

    Anyway this is the build i'm decided on

    18 cleric, 1 fighter, 1 ranger, great axe user

    Feats:
    -power attack
    -cleave
    -greater clerave
    -maximize
    -empower healing
    -imp. critical slashing
    -empower
    -quicken spell
    ---epic:
    -overhelming crit
    -???

    It will have the healing aura and reactive heal from radiant servant, then it will have the sla-s from divine disciple up to holy smite (empowered/maximized), also has a very strong burst. From protection much later it will have divine might if it worth it.. I don't know yet.
    fighter gives an extra feat, haste boost, extra attack+dmg
    ranger gives some saves against traps and +75 positive spell power

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