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  1. #1
    The Hatchery samthedagger's Avatar
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    Default Purple Dragon Knight Build Discussion

    I am in no way experienced in the ways and means of the Fighter class, but I have decided to create one following the release of the Purple Dragon Knight iconic. So I'd like to gather some feedback from experienced Fighter players on what will make for a good Fighter. Now granted, the Purple Dragon Knight offers some new options, most important of which is probably the ability to use Cha in place of Str for attack and damage (as well as adding 1/3 of your Cha bonus to Tactical DCs).

    Here is a tentative plan for how I want to build my PDK. The concept is Hate-Tank/Off-DPS. Advice is welcome.

    Fighter 20

    Str 14 +3 tome to qualify for Greater Two Handed Fighting
    Dex 8
    Con 18 +3 tome to qualify for Epic Toughness
    Int 8 +2 tome at level 7
    Wis 8
    Cha 16 all level-ups here +7

    Skills
    Balance 7 ranks
    Intimidate 23 ranks
    Use Magic Device 11 ranks

    Feats
    H Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Bastard Sword
    1 Power Attack
    F1 Force of Personality
    F2 Cleave
    3 Weapon Focus: Slashing
    F4 Great Cleave
    6 Improved Shield Bash
    F6 Power Critical
    F8 Improved Critical: Slashing
    9 Stunning Blow
    F10 Improved Sunder
    12 Improved Two-Handed Fighting
    F12 Greater Two-Handed Fighting
    F14 Shield Mastery
    15 Improved Shield Mastery
    F16 Toughness
    18 Weapon Specialization: Slashing
    F18 Greater Weapon Focus: Slashing
    F20 Greater Weapon Specialization: Slashing
    21 Epic Toughness
    24 Bulwark of Defense
    D26 Tactician
    27 Blinding Speed
    D28 Perfect Two Handed Fighting

    As far as gear, I am looking at acquiring gear that increases Str, Con, and Cha as well as maximizing AC, PRR and Tactical DCs.

    For Epic Destinies I am planning on using Legendary Dreadnaught with Brace For Impact and Legendary Shield Mastery from Unyielding Sentinel and Wild Weapons from Fury of the Wild.

    For enhancements I will draw primarily from Stalwart Defender (capstone here), heavily from the Purple Dragon Knight racial tree, and dabbling in Kensai primarily to increase Tactical DCs.

  2. #2
    Community Member Raeaddil's Avatar
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    Default Missed a feat.

    Hmm seems like a nice build. I'm trying it out now but it seems you missed the first two handed fighting feat. Other than that everything seems to work. I'm excited to try him out.

  3. #3
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Default

    Toughness cannot be taken as a ftr feat. I also don't see THF. I consider Bulwark of Defense pretty blah, but since you don't have the STR for Overwhelming Crit, I'm kinda drawing a blank on what might be better. Seems a pity to go CHA-based and not have Divine Grace; but that costs you the capstone (+15% doublestrike), which is the main incentive for going past ftr 12.

  4. #4
    Community Member mezzorco's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    Seems a pity to go CHA-based and not have Divine Grace; but that costs you the capstone (+15% doublestrike), which is the main incentive for going past ftr 12.
    He takes SD capstone, not Kensei.



    If you are a off-DPS, you should consider splashing 2 Pali for saves. A dead DPS is no DPS.

    If you are a Hate-Tank, not splashing 2 Pali is a crime.
    Last edited by mezzorco; 09-01-2013 at 03:44 AM.

  5. #5
    Community Member Sokól's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mezzorco View Post
    He takes SD capstone, not Kensei.



    If you are a off-DPS, you should consider splashing 2 Pali for saves. A dead DPS is no DPS.

    If you are a Hate-Tank, not splashing 2 Pali is a crime.
    ^^ I agree with this statement
    Argonnessen: Hilmir - Purkilius - Jinu - Vignir @ Blood Assassin´s

  6. #6
    Community Member ThomasHunter's Avatar
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    Default Inquiry

    I've been reading up more on S&B builds mostly because the PDK comes out of the box as one! Way back, S&B was good. At some point, I remember that you simply had to take up a second weapon or go big weapons. Is S&B "back"? In other words, is this a legitimate build? Can a PDK S&B solo the new content (for example) on hard? Just curious as the S&B flavor has always been iconic (pun intended) to me. I'd love to build another - 5 years later (or so).

    Thanks for the info!

  7. #7
    Community Member shibe's Avatar
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    Default As a Dwarf?

    How would this build go if using a dwarf or any other race?

  8. #8
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThomasHunter View Post
    Way back, S&B was good. At some point, I remember that you simply had to take up a second weapon or go big weapons. Is S&B "back"? In other words, is this a legitimate build? Can a PDK S&B solo the new content (for example) on hard? Just curious as the S&B flavor has always been iconic (pun intended) to me.
    When I started playing DDO 4 years ago, S&B was gimp; "pajama" tanks (i.e., monk splash for WIS bonus to AC) had better AC and better DPS. Since then, Turbine has gradually improved S&B: Intim / threat bonuses from using a shield; Shield Mastery boosts doublestrike & PRR for better DPS and survivability; ftrs have gotten a number of S&B-specific abilities like Shield Striking and Block & Cut (the pally SD abilities are less interesting IMHO).

    Unfortunately, U19 simultaneously nerfed S&B while buffing monks. The current "flavor of the month" is monk 6 / ftr 8: with Keen Edge & One w/Blade (T5 Kensei abilities, req's GWF), you can be centered with your Kensei focus weapons; Master Earth stance provides PRR (boosted by Iron Skin from Shintao) & +1 crit multiplier; while monk 6 lets you add Shadow Veil for 25% Incorporeality (I think 10% is still the most you can get from gear).

    That said, you can still make a viable "classic" S&B tank these days; whether you should is another matter. But since you can't TR Iconics (yet), if all you want to do is level up and have fun and don't care what the minmaxers think of you, it should be fine.
    Quote Originally Posted by shibe View Post
    How would this build go if using a dwarf or any other race?
    The main difference is whether you switch to STR-based (since PDK is only one which gets +CHA to dmg w/swords); or, in the case of dwarves, go CON-based and use Throw Your Weight Around. My view is it makes most sense to stick with STR-based, at least with ftrs; it lets you add Overwhelming Crit for more DPS, for one thing. Going CON-based limits your weapon options and means you have to put at least 18 APs into dwarf tree for TYWA (more if you want Dwarf Fortress as well), which limits what you can do with other pts.

  9. #9
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    Unfortunately, U19 simultaneously nerfed S&B while buffing monks.
    So, in what ways was S&B nerfed? I never really used it before the update, since everyone seemed to agree two weapons or spell implements was better, but when I checked out the PDK and played one a bit, it seemed to me like there were all kinds of enhancements intended to unnerf S&B. But since I didn't have pre-update experience to compare to, I have to assume I was mis-reading the situation.

    What got better in the update, what got worse? For S&B, that is.

  10. #10
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arlannis View Post
    So, in what ways was S&B nerfed?
    They lost some PRR, the higher-tier stance bonuses require S&B and cost more APs than SD did pre-U19, the doublestrike capstone is Kensei-specific (and to add insult to injury, they upped it from 10% to 15%), and there's this bug where if you change your weapon while S&B (even if you don't change your shield), you lose your bonus HPs from Greater Stalwart Stance. [E.g., say your base HPs is 500, so your max HPs in stance while S&B is 600; but if you switch weapons or swap in a scroll or whatever, you lose those 100 extra HPs and find yourself at 500/600 HPs after the swap.]

    On the plus side, Stalwart Defender got Overbalance, Shield Striking (up to +15% shield bash chance - dunno if WAI tho), and Block & Cut (+25% doublestrike for 10 secs out of 20). I find Counterattack, Stand Fast, and Defensive Sweep to be pretty blah, tho; maybe if you could use them with other action boosts. But Sacred Defender didn't get any of those goodies; just boring bonuses to their aura & stance. Overall, I don't think the pros outweigh the cons...or if they do, I haven't found a clever way to exploit them.

    Until Dwarven Defender or something similar comes along, I've toyed with pal 14 / ftr 6: that lets me get the survivability bonuses from pally I like + Zeal for +10% doublestrike; while picking up the S&B-specific bonuses I want from Stalwart (mostly B&C). It's not ideal - I have to give up higher-lvl ftr options like Power Surge - but I've yet to hit on a better idea.

    I've also got a dwarf ftr 12 / pal 6 / monk 2 build (currently lvl 18) that I've been trying to figure out how to fix. Originally I wanted to stick w/S&B, but I'm not convinced I can make up the DPS loss. Though having Divine Might + Power Surge is nice for one's DCs; so maybe I should think of her as a tactics-oriented hate-tank and just live with so-so DPS.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    On the plus side, Stalwart Defender got Overbalance, Shield Striking (up to +15% shield bash chance - dunno if WAI tho), and Block & Cut (+25% doublestrike for 10 secs out of 20). I find Counterattack, Stand Fast, and Defensive Sweep to be pretty blah, tho; maybe if you could use them with other action boosts. But Sacred Defender didn't get any of those goodies; just boring bonuses to their aura & stance.
    Oh, yeah, I'd forgotten that some of the S&B additions were limited to the fighter version. Now that you mention it, when I compared the two SD trees I remember thinking that the S&B Paladin would possibly make a better tank if working with a couple of other melee types who would fight close to him to benefit from the aura, but the S&B Fighter would win out almost any other time.

    End result for the PDK is (as I see it), whether to make a Paladin with a Fighter splash or a Fighter with a Paladin splash. Almost any splash seems like an improvement over either a straight fighter with no healing, or a straight paladin.

    (Perhaps I should add that I was not looking for a tank when I decided that, I was looking for a solo-capable build.)

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