It would probably be a good idea to just take the no death bonus out too, as it seems to do more harm than good.
But really, nothing short of vastly lowering or removing the detrimental effects poor play can have will make pugging the preferred method of play for this game.
Last edited by Gremmlynn; 09-02-2013 at 06:42 PM.
*That is of course ignoring certain other factors like waiting to fill (which I don't, I post IP), waiting for someone to re-up spell components, potions, scrolls etc, letting the guy who died rebuff and so on; however all of those issues are beyond Turbines ability to fix for us.
Yes, I realize I said competent players. New players can still be competent, provided they announce their newness and actually listen to & follow advice & directions. However, pugging always carries the risk of getting some yahoo that wants to drink a Potion of Wonder just prior to the boss fight (and get the party-wiping bomb result), Turn the Palemaster for giggles or do any number of inane things counter productive to the group. Again, nothing I can think of Turbine could do to alleviate that problem either.
Last edited by PermaBanned; 09-02-2013 at 06:51 PM.
Now excuse me while I wander off to arm myself with Grilled Cheese Sandwiches and hunker down behind my Armored Beer Refrigerator, while I have the UFO's take control of the Congresional Wives with the help of the International Cocaine Smugglers and the Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow
+ 10 % XP for a full party completion.
+ 10 % to Bravery Bonus for completion with an LFM party.
A couple months ago I was showing a "semi-new" player what I do for farming some quests as it was their first tr and didn't want to get stuck in a dead zone with xp. (not that second life is bad, but they wanted to know for third life as well) It was a pleasant night. I wish this wasn't the exception to the rule.
The problem is that the bonuses are not seen as bonuses for success, they are seen as punitive penalties when failing. As long as people have this view point, we will not be able to have nice things.
Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.
glad to see this thread is doing well ^_^
I was just trying to think out all the problems that are a detriment to puging, specifically those of a mechanical and of a controllable nature (cannot change some variables like a persons competence) and a lot of them are just downsides.
so assuming you are a competent player that can solo the quest just fine. what reasons would you have for making a group? I am not including forced grouping because of quest mechanics.
-could go faster
-could not think of anything else XD
-could go slower
-scaling making things harder so you have to assume other players can make up the difference
-DA causing possible problems (slower quest, death penalties, etc.)
-time required for a group to join
-time required for said group to make it to the quest
Im sure there are more, but I just wanted to get the basic ones out of the way. As it stands I don't think its really even that there are not good reasons to pug, but that there are better reasons not to pug, and that's kind of sad.
I think until things are fixed, we will continue to see hundreds of people online, and very few LFM's in the lfm list, there are just good mechanical reasons to solo/duo.
A few things would also need to change for new players to get used to the game more easily. Like guide trails in quests and to quests in wilderness/public spaces. A map that displays levels.
After 1st life the bottom line becomes XP. I used to be somewhat anti-BB,
but now that I have gotten used to it, and now that I NEED it - I never break it.
Nothing will change behavior more effectively, for TR players at least, than adding XP.
Encouraging people to pug? Well, don't be an ******* and show manners, since you are dealing with people. That's all.
Characters on Orien:
Wanzer/ Klingtanz/ Incanta Superior/ Mercantus
Dystopia = utopia achieved
DDO has become too easy to solo, that is the problem. Everything else is a matter of playstyle.
Any quest should ONLY be possible to complete solo on casual. Casual difficulty should be what is now normal difficulty.
On normal difficulty, mobs should be tough enough that a player at lvl (or even 2-3 lvl above the CR) does not stand a chance alone, unless a multiple TR and seriously "overgeared". Why? Because in PnP no lvl 3 player character can kill 200 kobolds alone (for example).
When players are unable to complete quests soloing, they WILL have to group. They will have to work together. It will increase interaction.
The reason why DDO is so newbie-unfriendly and generally antisocial is simply because being friendly and social is not a requirement to play (i.e. complete quests). It rather hinders play because of waiting for other players etc. Why wait if you can do it alone? - is the sentinment that has unfortunately developed from that.
DDO is not an MMO. It's a soloplayer game with an optional multiplayer mode. Instead of making more incentives for multiplayer, it should be a requirement for success beyone the casual difficulty levels.
So if what's now "elite" difficulty in a quest were to become the new "normal" difficulty and no more scaling for additional players (or maybe leave scaling only the new "elite") players would have to group together. Grouping wouldn't be a penalty, as there's no increase in difficulty, instead it would make the quest easier, as it should. On the other hand, making the quest easier for a group would mean: Just easy enough that the group can complete it.
I'm also very much in favor of quest designs that require specific classes to be part of the party to complete all optionals (note: optionals, not main objective!). I don't mean just rogues/artis for the traps, but all kinds of situations where class-typical skills or knowledge is required. That could make use of the knowledge feats.
You need to have a cleric/fvs to decipher the meaning of an ancient religious text, to figure which of 5 levers to pull to open the secret door. For the cleric who succesfully deciphers the text, the right lever would be highlighted. The group might try without (still have a 1 in 5 chance), but only get one try.
Similar situations could work with wizards/sorcs of course.
A monk must meditate at a specific spot on the floor to focus their thoughts, upon which a chest will appear. Other characters can't do it.
You need to have a paladin/fighter/bard walk into a room to duel an enemy while the rest of the group must watch. If a different class walks into the room, nothing happens. If the right class walks in, a gate closes, the duel ensues and after it, the gate reopens (so if the character dies the soulstone can be recovered) and there's loot for the whole party.
Only a druid could talk/appease an angry dryad to let the group pass a specific shortcout around tough mobs. (Or perhaps other classes could try to use the diplomacy skill, but with -20 penalty).
A bard would have to perform a song in front of an audience to calm down/inspire a crowd. If he's successful, the party gets some allies in the final fight, which would otherwise be a lot tougher.
There could be many optional things designed for specific classes (or even races) in a quest. Nothing that's required for completion, just gives this little extra (xp, additional chest) for having the right character on the group in the right moment or makes it that extra bit easier that helps save the day. Isn't that how it works in PnP? Why don't we add some of that feeling back into DDO?
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