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  1. #21
    Founder Mellkor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sephiroth1084 View Post
    I agree on the HP front. Would be nice to get some healing amp in there, but I don't think it's really doable, and the triple-pos weapon idea is a good one for that.
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  2. #22
    The Hatchery Wipey's Avatar
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    What is the reason for not taking Grim's Precision ? Just not enough points ?
    It might be the highest dps increase on high fort targets, heck I twist it often on fighter or archer, must be even more important with super high SA.
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  3. #23
    The Hatchery CThruTheEgo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Encair View Post
    What is the reason for not taking Grim's Precision ? Just not enough points ?
    It might be the highest dps increase on high fort targets, heck I twist it often on fighter or archer, must be even more important with super high SA.
    Fort bypass is already at 55% without it, 80% with assassin's trick. If you really wanted to fit it in, you could lower both lithe and shrouding strike to rank 1. Taking the full 6 int and shadow form doesn't leave a lot of flexibility. I don't know if this has changed, but it used to be the case that not even raid bosses had 100% fort, usually 80% at most.
    White Feather Sniper: dps focused, 62DC paralyzing arrows human ranged ranger/The Divine Cuisinart: human tempest in divine crusader/Hassan's Assassin: 81DC halfling assassin/The Count of Monte Cristo: human swashbuckler/Dubbell O'Seven: WF artificer
    Abandoned builds: Totally Bass Ackwards/Santa's Little Slayer

  4. #24
    Community Member brzytki's Avatar
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    Want more APs? Drop Subtlety completely. It's not really needed, especially if your ED is Shadowdancer. Imp Deception weapons + accessory will be enough.
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  5. #25
    The Hatchery CThruTheEgo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brzytki View Post
    Want more APs? Drop Subtlety completely. It's not really needed, especially if your ED is Shadowdancer. Imp Deception weapons + accessory will be enough.
    Enhancement APs are not a problem. They are tight but I've got everything I want already.
    White Feather Sniper: dps focused, 62DC paralyzing arrows human ranged ranger/The Divine Cuisinart: human tempest in divine crusader/Hassan's Assassin: 81DC halfling assassin/The Count of Monte Cristo: human swashbuckler/Dubbell O'Seven: WF artificer
    Abandoned builds: Totally Bass Ackwards/Santa's Little Slayer

  6. #26
    Community Member onivedlav's Avatar
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    Nice build, what would you say it's your assasinate success chance epic elite Storm Horns?

  7. #27
    The Hatchery CThruTheEgo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onivedlav View Post
    Nice build, what would you say it's your assasinate success chance epic elite Storm Horns?
    I'm glad you like the build. I'm currently level 25 and not fully geared yet but I ran some EE Stormhorns tonight with a 62 DC (including measure the foe) and overall had about a 50% success rate. The result was heavily dependant on the mob type, of course. Against casters, it was pretty much no fail, even without measure the foe. Against higher fort mobs, such as melees, it seemed like it was right at 50%. So when I'm capped and fully geared, 69 should be perfect.
    White Feather Sniper: dps focused, 62DC paralyzing arrows human ranged ranger/The Divine Cuisinart: human tempest in divine crusader/Hassan's Assassin: 81DC halfling assassin/The Count of Monte Cristo: human swashbuckler/Dubbell O'Seven: WF artificer
    Abandoned builds: Totally Bass Ackwards/Santa's Little Slayer

  8. #28
    The Hatchery CThruTheEgo's Avatar
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    Updated gear (mostly slot changes) and feats. For now I'm using weapon finesse for the sole purpose of dual wielding triple pos light maces against the truthful one. I've got about 50 coms to farm out and want to maximize my dps against him. After I've got them all I may drop this for past life sneak of shadows or epic damage reduction. Undead are still one of a rogue's weakpoints so I can see the value of keeping the feat just for them though. I'll decide when I get to that point.
    White Feather Sniper: dps focused, 62DC paralyzing arrows human ranged ranger/The Divine Cuisinart: human tempest in divine crusader/Hassan's Assassin: 81DC halfling assassin/The Count of Monte Cristo: human swashbuckler/Dubbell O'Seven: WF artificer
    Abandoned builds: Totally Bass Ackwards/Santa's Little Slayer

  9. #29
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    I am thinking of giving this build a try for my next life. I have never played a rogue though so do you have any advice for leveling as far as enchantment order?

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hagen View Post
    I am thinking of giving this build a try for my next life. I have never played a rogue though so do you have any advice for leveling as far as enchantment order?
    This character was already level 16ish when the enhancement pass went live, so I missed most of the levelling process. But I would probably focus on dps stuff first, dipping into acrobat to get faster sneaking just for the convenience. I would also probably get human damage boost early and take human con to boost my hp. You definitely want to get assassinate as soon as it's available.

    DPS is usually what I go for when leveling because the most effective tactic in heroic content is to kill it faster. But I keep an eye out for weaknesses as I'm leveling and try to compensate as I notice them, respeccing as needed.

    I wouldn't invest into mechanic until you are able to use scrolls. Wand and scroll mastery and the UMD bonus won't benefit you much until then (although the UMD will help make scrolls viable sooner), and you don't really need the extra int in heroic content.

    It's not a detailed specific plan, but I hope that helps.
    White Feather Sniper: dps focused, 62DC paralyzing arrows human ranged ranger/The Divine Cuisinart: human tempest in divine crusader/Hassan's Assassin: 81DC halfling assassin/The Count of Monte Cristo: human swashbuckler/Dubbell O'Seven: WF artificer
    Abandoned builds: Totally Bass Ackwards/Santa's Little Slayer

  11. #31
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    I noticed that you took the skill mastery feat twice. What skill is it that you think it'd be necessary to take this even once?

  12. #32
    The Hatchery CThruTheEgo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Calaquende View Post
    I noticed that you took the skill mastery feat twice. What skill is it that you think it'd be necessary to take this even once?
    It isn't so much that skill mastery is good (although the bonus to UMD is nice), as it is that the other feats are not good.

    As a pure rogue your will save will never be good enough to matter, so slippery mind basically just means you get to fail twice.

    In EH/EE content mobs are resistant to stat damage (90% resist chance iirc) and in EN it won't matter because mobs will die too quickly, so crippling strike is basically useless.

    Defensive roll did get a boost with the enhancement in the acrobat tree that lets it trigger at 50% hp, but it is tier 4 which means a lot of points spent in a not-so-useful tree for a twf assassin. And as someone once said to me, I don't like any ability that gets better as I get weaker. If your goal is to avoid getting to a point where that ability will be useful, and you are successful at that goal, then you get minimal return from that ability. With the enhancement, I could maybe see the value in this feat. But on an int based assassin, I can't imagine making the investment in APs to get the enhancement. And without it, I wouldn't even consider this feat.

    So the alternatives just aren't very compelling and I personally would prefer +2 to UMD (and all other skills) over them any day.
    White Feather Sniper: dps focused, 62DC paralyzing arrows human ranged ranger/The Divine Cuisinart: human tempest in divine crusader/Hassan's Assassin: 81DC halfling assassin/The Count of Monte Cristo: human swashbuckler/Dubbell O'Seven: WF artificer
    Abandoned builds: Totally Bass Ackwards/Santa's Little Slayer

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by CThruTheEgo View Post
    So the alternatives just aren't very compelling and I personally would prefer +2 to UMD (and all other skills) over them any day.
    Your logic makes sense, but to what use are you putting the +2 UMD? I would imagine that you've got no-fail Heal and Raise Dead long before you get the +2 UMD, so what's it used for?

  14. #34
    The Hatchery CThruTheEgo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Calaquende View Post
    Your logic makes sense, but to what use are you putting the +2 UMD? I would imagine that you've got no-fail Heal and Raise Dead long before you get the +2 UMD, so what's it used for?
    As I said, it's not so much that skill mastery is that great, it's that the others are just ineffective to the point of being essentially useless.

    But my other main character is the arti in my sig. Artificers get better UMD than anyone, so that is what I am used to. My arti can use level 9 scrolls at no fail even with a few death penalties. When my rogue gets a few death penalties or neg levels I notice the difficulty in using scrolls, which really sucks when you're trying to heal yourself, raise others quickly, or use a greater restore to get rid of the neg levels. Plus, with a higher UMD I can use scrolls without worrying about buffs like GH or swapping items. More UMD is always better as long as the cost isn't too high (e.g. I wouldn't take skill focus UMD), and since the alternative feats essentially don't do anything, there is no cost to taking skill mastery x2.
    White Feather Sniper: dps focused, 62DC paralyzing arrows human ranged ranger/The Divine Cuisinart: human tempest in divine crusader/Hassan's Assassin: 81DC halfling assassin/The Count of Monte Cristo: human swashbuckler/Dubbell O'Seven: WF artificer
    Abandoned builds: Totally Bass Ackwards/Santa's Little Slayer

  15. #35
    Community Member Qnevven's Avatar
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    Default adopting for shadar-kai

    Hello CThruTheEgo
    I was thinking about adopting your build using shadar-kai iconic base...

    While the race is considered human i do not get the extra feat and have to make some more sacrifices along the way since it's only 32p build (fresh character) and not 36p.
    As for the feats i was thinking about droping weapon finesse
    As for ability points - I've got a racial bonus +2 to dexterity, and -2 penalty to charisma (umd ).
    So i can max int at 18, and still have points to put 16 each in dex and con leaving me with only 6 base charisma.
    Or do you think i should rather leave 14 dexterity and boost charisma a bit?

    I know charisma will only be used with skills (diplo, haggle, bluff, umd!) but dex seems much more important with your build - specially since you have already included 2x skill mastery with rogue bonus feats.

    What do you think?

  16. #36

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    swap weapon finesse for Sap? You probably have more experience then I do with assassins, but I found Sap awesomely useful in stealthing dungeons. When I failed an assassinate, I would Sap them, return to sneak, bluff, and then try to assassinate again (all within timers/cooldowns). I do not do epic content but I understand it works well there.

    Also, Drow has shuriken experitise; you could do rapid reload instead of some feat (not sure which, but at least it has other benefits as well as assisting with throwing) and have an interesting ranged option. The high dex gives extra shurikens, and the Cormyron throwers are decent enough.

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  17. #37
    The Hatchery CThruTheEgo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qnevven View Post
    Hello CThruTheEgo
    I was thinking about adopting your build using shadar-kai iconic base...

    While the race is considered human i do not get the extra feat and have to make some more sacrifices along the way since it's only 32p build (fresh character) and not 36p.
    As for the feats i was thinking about droping weapon finesse
    As for ability points - I've got a racial bonus +2 to dexterity, and -2 penalty to charisma (umd ).
    So i can max int at 18, and still have points to put 16 each in dex and con leaving me with only 6 base charisma.
    Or do you think i should rather leave 14 dexterity and boost charisma a bit?

    I know charisma will only be used with skills (diplo, haggle, bluff, umd!) but dex seems much more important with your build - specially since you have already included 2x skill mastery with rogue bonus feats.

    What do you think?
    I would agree with your reasoning, don't worry about cha. Losing one point of UMD won't be a big deal. And I primarily use bluff, diplo, and intim for optionals in dialogue. I've even been considering removing bluff from my hotbar because I just find myself never having to use it. With imp deception on the avithoul seal and both of my main weapons, it goes off constantly. By the time I decide I should use bluff, imp deception has gone off.

    As far as which feat to drop, I would say both weapon finesse and imp crit slash are options, though I'd probably drop weapon finesse first.

    Quote Originally Posted by Saekee View Post
    swap weapon finesse for Sap? You probably have more experience then I do with assassins, but I found Sap awesomely useful in stealthing dungeons. When I failed an assassinate, I would Sap them, return to sneak, bluff, and then try to assassinate again (all within timers/cooldowns). I do not do epic content but I understand it works well there.
    I can see the advantages of using sap. I had it on my tactics fighter and got some good use out of it. I think it would be more useful for soloing though, which I prefer not to do as I just find it more tedious than grouping. But sap would certainly be an interesting option.

    Quote Originally Posted by Saekee View Post
    Also, Drow has shuriken experitise; you could do rapid reload instead of some feat (not sure which, but at least it has other benefits as well as assisting with throwing) and have an interesting ranged option. The high dex gives extra shurikens, and the Cormyron throwers are decent enough.
    I just accept that ranged dps is not a strength of this build. While there are many situations currently in the game where ranging is an advantage, there are few where it is a necessity. So I just make do without it and do just fine. A drow does have the option of shuriken expertise, but would have to sacrifice two feats (one for not being human and one for shuriken expertise), so it really depends on your goals for the character.

    Also, something to keep in mind, knife specialization affects throwing daggers. I don't know how that makes them compare to shurikens with shuriken expertise, but I'm not too worried about the strength of ranged dps on this build.
    White Feather Sniper: dps focused, 62DC paralyzing arrows human ranged ranger/The Divine Cuisinart: human tempest in divine crusader/Hassan's Assassin: 81DC halfling assassin/The Count of Monte Cristo: human swashbuckler/Dubbell O'Seven: WF artificer
    Abandoned builds: Totally Bass Ackwards/Santa's Little Slayer

  18. #38
    Community Member sephiroth1084's Avatar
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    Bluff has one rather excellent use, as far as I'm concerned: something has aggro'ed on you, Assassinate is off-timer...Bluff, stealth, Assassinate. I suppose this could be used with Improved Deception, but that seems like it would be more difficult, since you'd need to halt your attacking to stealth, and you don't have any warning for when the effect will trigger. Plus, the Bluff trick can be used on something you haven't attacked yet (useful if you want to maintain stealth).

    If I'm sneaking around, and something notices me, I can Bluff it just before it reaches me, and Assassinate it without ever breaking stealth or giving the creature a chance to attack.

    Oh, and you can also use Bluff, if you're quick, to turn spellcasters around as they begin casting to dodge spells. I don't use this trick a lot on my rogue, but I do on my archer with Sniper's Shot, which works the same way. It's delightful to see casters firing off spells at the wall behind them instead of in your face.
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  19. #39
    Community Member Qnevven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CThruTheEgo View Post
    I would agree with your reasoning, don't worry about cha. Losing one point of UMD won't be a big deal. And I primarily use bluff, diplo, and intim for optionals in dialogue. I've even been considering removing bluff from my hotbar because I just find myself never having to use it. With imp deception on the avithoul seal and both of my main weapons, it goes off constantly. By the time I decide I should use bluff, imp deception has gone off.

    As far as which feat to drop, I would say both weapon finesse and imp crit slash are options, though I'd probably drop weapon finesse first.
    I must confess i didn't check the enhancements for assassin before i made the decision to drop weapon finesse from the build, and now i'm slowly regreting this.
    I was under impression, that assassin PrE had an option to use Int for attack and damage (same way as artificers have spells for the same purpose). Unfortunatelly they only have enhancements for dex to-hit/dmg and only for daggers and kukris (for someone without finesse). This means my choice of weapons is strongly limited (can't use rapiers, shortswords and other rougish goodies, even mentioned by you light maces/hammers as skelly beaters).
    In these circumstances i might have to rethink my choice of feats once again as i didn't find any int based weapon outside quarterstaves. Regarding epic Midnight Greeting - am i correct thinking that INT only adds to enhancement bonus (+6 to +10 max) and is STR/DEX is still being used for combat and damage rolls?

    My other assassin (who i played on my main toon 2+ years ago) was STR+INT based assassin. While DC wasn't maxed out he at least was capable of solo play and was not so strongly party/tank dependant (aggro) like this one is and was still doing massive dmg while having agro or with high fortification mobs/bosses.
    Last edited by Qnevven; 12-20-2013 at 07:12 AM.

  20. #40
    The Hatchery CThruTheEgo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sephiroth1084 View Post
    If I'm sneaking around, and something notices me, I can Bluff it just before it reaches me, and Assassinate it without ever breaking stealth or giving the creature a chance to attack.
    I do occasionally use bluff for this purpose.

    I am rarely able to get the bluff, stealth, assassinate combo to work for me though. It's usually the case that the mob turns around and attacks me just as I'm getting stealthed, which then breaks stealth. I don't know what it is exactly. I have bluff, stealth, and assassinate easily accessible on my hotbar, so doing them quickly is not the problem.
    White Feather Sniper: dps focused, 62DC paralyzing arrows human ranged ranger/The Divine Cuisinart: human tempest in divine crusader/Hassan's Assassin: 81DC halfling assassin/The Count of Monte Cristo: human swashbuckler/Dubbell O'Seven: WF artificer
    Abandoned builds: Totally Bass Ackwards/Santa's Little Slayer

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