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  1. #81
    Community Member Stoner81's Avatar
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    Thanks for including my build in your OP I really need to get my bum in gear and get it updated with a lot of the new stuff it's just finding the time.

    Stoner81.

  2. #82
    The Hatchery CThruTheEgo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stoner81 View Post
    Thanks for including my build in your OP I really need to get my bum in gear and get it updated with a lot of the new stuff it's just finding the time.
    Thanks for posting a good first life assassin build. How to convert to a first life is always a common question, so it's nice to have a resource to point people towards.
    Unarmed monk guide with builds|The Arcane Warrior: wiz/fighter hybrids|White Feather Sniper: CC/dps focused deepwood stalker|The Divine Cuisinart: divine crusader tempest|The Count of Monte Cristo: swashbuckler|Hassan's Assassin: dex assassin|Dubbell O'Seven: WF artificer|Santa's Little Slayer: dragonmarked elf centered kensai

  3. #83
    Community Member Stoner81's Avatar
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    Well it's not strictly first life since it's based on 32pt build and includes 34pt and 36pt versions. I could probably make it for a 28pt build though so it would be new player friendly.

    Stoner81.

  4. #84
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    Default Why weapon finesse?

    I know you mentioned weapon finesse was to use with light hammers somewhere, but is that to-hit relevant, given your comments on to-hit in the Monte Cristo thread?

  5. #85

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    Quote Originally Posted by LotM View Post
    I know you mentioned weapon finesse was to use with light hammers somewhere, but is that to-hit relevant, given your comments on to-hit in the Monte Cristo thread?
    The weapon finesse feat on a rogue with this build (second assassin core) gets Dex-to-damage with all light weapons. He recommended it for making triple positive greensteel light maces for beating on undead skellies, in particularl The Truthful One.

    If you do not want to use a feat just for this purpose, here is a suggestion I posted earlier in the thread:
    I have been wondering about the use of Weapon Finesse--if it is just for use with undead and maces, how about Level 16 tier 3 Mournlode maces with Weapon Finesse crafted on them? They will be vastly inferior damage to the Greensteel (instead offering +5 Enhancement Bonus, Righteous, Greater Undead Bane, Brilliance, craftable) but are 1) way easier to make and 2) save a feat. Since you already crafted the greensteel, this might not make sense. It may be an option for someone implementing your build.
    ROGUE Part QUATRE: Prove your Stealth Skills!

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  6. #86
    The Hatchery CThruTheEgo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LotM View Post
    I know you mentioned weapon finesse was to use with light hammers somewhere, but is that to-hit relevant, given your comments on to-hit in the Monte Cristo thread?
    Yep, Saekee summed it up perfectly. Only thing I can add is that it's not just for the Truthful One anymore. The two new raids have a lot of undead, and the raid boss of one is also an undead dragon.
    Unarmed monk guide with builds|The Arcane Warrior: wiz/fighter hybrids|White Feather Sniper: CC/dps focused deepwood stalker|The Divine Cuisinart: divine crusader tempest|The Count of Monte Cristo: swashbuckler|Hassan's Assassin: dex assassin|Dubbell O'Seven: WF artificer|Santa's Little Slayer: dragonmarked elf centered kensai

  7. #87

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    Quote Originally Posted by CThruTheEgo View Post
    Yep, Saekee summed it up perfectly. Only thing I can add is that it's not just for the Truthful One anymore. The two new raids have a lot of undead, and the raid boss of one is also an undead dragon.
    Looks like the new Harper tree will save this feat, since Int to damage can be done with any 'melee or missile weapon.'
    ROGUE Part QUATRE: Prove your Stealth Skills!

    Proud Knight of the Silver Legion, Cannith: Saekee (main; epic completionist), Naerfelka (farmer)

  8. #88
    The Hatchery CThruTheEgo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saekee View Post
    Looks like the new Harper tree will save this feat, since Int to damage can be done with any 'melee or missile weapon.'
    Yeah the harper tree looks like it will have a lot to offer an assassin. I already know how I'd like to spend my AP, but I'll wait until it goes live before making any changes to the OP, since the tree isn't set in stone yet. I'll probably move some feats around (taking dodge earlier) so that I can take overwhelming crit instead of weapon finesse.
    Unarmed monk guide with builds|The Arcane Warrior: wiz/fighter hybrids|White Feather Sniper: CC/dps focused deepwood stalker|The Divine Cuisinart: divine crusader tempest|The Count of Monte Cristo: swashbuckler|Hassan's Assassin: dex assassin|Dubbell O'Seven: WF artificer|Santa's Little Slayer: dragonmarked elf centered kensai

  9. #89
    Court Jester hi_sa1nt's Avatar
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    Love your swash build. TR'd into it from a fighter build.

    Was a rogue for the longest time... but seeing how most of the endgame stuff is undead now... are assassin rogues worth the time and effort to get the required gear, now?

    Can't assassinate any of the undead mobs... and the fleshies are red named anyway.

    I still have one more rogue life to go to get my x3 sneak attack... but I'm thinking a rogue stick splash build might be the way to go for endgame content.

  10. #90
    The Hatchery CThruTheEgo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hi_sa1nt View Post
    Love your swash build. TR'd into it from a fighter build.

    Was a rogue for the longest time... but seeing how most of the endgame stuff is undead now... are assassin rogues worth the time and effort to get the required gear, now?

    Can't assassinate any of the undead mobs... and the fleshies are red named anyway.

    I still have one more rogue life to go to get my x3 sneak attack... but I'm thinking a rogue stick splash build might be the way to go for endgame content.
    Are there classes/builds which are more effective against undead? Certainly.

    Are assassins gimp or useless against undead? Absolutely not.

    The heavy investment in fort bypass is often overlooked in the rogue vs undead debate. Higher fort bypass means you still get a lot of sneak attack damage, as well as crits, against undead. Most other melee builds do not invest as heavily in fort bypass.

    Before we got dex to damage, you had to go str based or you were gimp against undead. Dex to damage allowed assassins to ignore str. A build like Hassan's Assassin, emphasizing DC, dps, and survivability was not possible before dex to damage and I had been planning this build ever since it was rumored that we might be getting dex to damage. Soon we will get int to damage, which will be a huge dps boost for an int based assassin.

    With more fort bypass available, as well as the ability to apply different stats to damage, assassins facing undead have only gotten better over time. Once we get int to damage, this won't even be an argument anymore since a single stat will be used for both DC and dps.

    The only thing holding assassins back now is the stupid automatic agro bug. Worst mechanic ever.
    Unarmed monk guide with builds|The Arcane Warrior: wiz/fighter hybrids|White Feather Sniper: CC/dps focused deepwood stalker|The Divine Cuisinart: divine crusader tempest|The Count of Monte Cristo: swashbuckler|Hassan's Assassin: dex assassin|Dubbell O'Seven: WF artificer|Santa's Little Slayer: dragonmarked elf centered kensai

  11. #91
    Community Member Behoram's Avatar
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    Any1 know when the harper tree will be on store? I've a toon at lvl 20 that i want to reincarnate in a pure rogue, but i'm very undecided about the build to follow. So, if it is almost for harper, i'll wait for it and for new future rogue builds.

  12. #92
    The Hatchery CThruTheEgo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Behoram View Post
    Any1 know when the harper tree will be on store? I've a toon at lvl 20 that i want to reincarnate in a pure rogue, but i'm very undecided about the build to follow. So, if it is almost for harper, i'll wait for it and for new future rogue builds.
    I believe the harper tree is being released with epic Necropolis, but I'm not positive about that.

    You don't need to wait for harper to come out. The only thing the harper tree will change for most assassin builds is the enhancements, and probably not how they are spent in the assassin tree. I've already mentioned that I'll be dropping weapon finesse and take overwhelming crit instead. That will require moving a few feats around, but not a big deal. Starting stats won't change since I still want 21 in both dex and con for improved sneak attack and epic toughness. I plan to divert most of my AP from acrobat and mechanic into the harper tree, but since the AP costs for harper are not finalized yet, it's too soon to plan that out completely. So harper won't change much that can't be easily changed.
    Unarmed monk guide with builds|The Arcane Warrior: wiz/fighter hybrids|White Feather Sniper: CC/dps focused deepwood stalker|The Divine Cuisinart: divine crusader tempest|The Count of Monte Cristo: swashbuckler|Hassan's Assassin: dex assassin|Dubbell O'Seven: WF artificer|Santa's Little Slayer: dragonmarked elf centered kensai

  13. #93
    Community Member Feralthyrtiaq's Avatar
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    Default This build...

    with Harper Tree...


    /drool
    I am often cynical and say mean things. It's a WAI "Feature". Mokune (Guild Leader of Pandora's Box on Khyber), Iquitz, Returning, Thaumat, Ketzerisch, Xhiron, Koanoak et al...

  14. #94
    Community Member Zachski's Avatar
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    Minor problem: You can't take Weapon Finesse at level 1 because you need at least 1 BAB to take it.

    I moved Toughness to that level, though I'm running an altered 32 build version. All I did was lower con.
    The guy who likes to experience every class. Except Fighter >:[ I don't like you Fighter.
    Hey Devs! Let's give Warpriests and Eldritch Knights some loving, kay? :<

  15. #95
    The Hatchery CThruTheEgo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feralthyrtiaq View Post
    with Harper Tree...


    /drool
    Yup. Catch the update on Monday.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zachski View Post
    Minor problem: You can't take Weapon Finesse at level 1 because you need at least 1 BAB to take it.

    I moved Toughness to that level, though I'm running an altered 32 build version. All I did was lower con.
    Good catch, but this won't matter come Monday since weapon finesse won't be needed at all thanks to harper's know the angles enhancement.
    Unarmed monk guide with builds|The Arcane Warrior: wiz/fighter hybrids|White Feather Sniper: CC/dps focused deepwood stalker|The Divine Cuisinart: divine crusader tempest|The Count of Monte Cristo: swashbuckler|Hassan's Assassin: dex assassin|Dubbell O'Seven: WF artificer|Santa's Little Slayer: dragonmarked elf centered kensai

  16. #96
    Community Member Hobgoblin's Avatar
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    have looked at this thread a lot - what do you think of shadar kai for this?

    hob
    main toons: hauteur(silly caster) Sttomper (silly barbarian)-jammiee (Silly paladin)
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  17. #97
    The Hatchery CThruTheEgo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hobgoblin View Post
    have looked at this thread a lot - what do you think of shadar kai for this?

    hob
    Shadar kai is certainly an option, but you won't have many points to spend on the racial tree, especially after tomorrow when harper is added. Without the racial enhanements, you're not really taking full advantage of the race. That's essentially the same problem I see with halfling.

    I'll definitely be purchasing harper tomorrow and will then know for sure exactly what is available in the tree and how much it will cost. But I wouldn't expect to have much to spend in the racial tree.
    Unarmed monk guide with builds|The Arcane Warrior: wiz/fighter hybrids|White Feather Sniper: CC/dps focused deepwood stalker|The Divine Cuisinart: divine crusader tempest|The Count of Monte Cristo: swashbuckler|Hassan's Assassin: dex assassin|Dubbell O'Seven: WF artificer|Santa's Little Slayer: dragonmarked elf centered kensai

  18. #98
    The Hatchery CThruTheEgo's Avatar
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    Default Update

    Gear and feats updated. I'll update enhancements later today after I see what harper looks like on live. I'll also wait to update all the final calculations until I'm sure that the gear has gone live as it was posted on Lammania.

    I'm open to feedback on gear, enhancements, feats, or any other changes.
    Last edited by CThruTheEgo; 09-29-2014 at 09:51 AM.
    Unarmed monk guide with builds|The Arcane Warrior: wiz/fighter hybrids|White Feather Sniper: CC/dps focused deepwood stalker|The Divine Cuisinart: divine crusader tempest|The Count of Monte Cristo: swashbuckler|Hassan's Assassin: dex assassin|Dubbell O'Seven: WF artificer|Santa's Little Slayer: dragonmarked elf centered kensai

  19. #99
    The Hatchery CThruTheEgo's Avatar
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    Default Enhancements updated

    Enhancements updated. I dropped everything from mechanic and most of acrobat. To make up for the loss of wand and scroll mastery, I picked up the first tier of heal amp from both human and harper. Heal scrolls hit me for about 260-270 with a heal amp stick.

    With 41 in assassin, 4 in acrobat for faster sneaking, 5 in human for int and heal amp, and 26 in harper for 4 int and heal amp, you're only left with 4 points to spend. I opted to spend them on melee power in harper. With the increase in damage, however, it might be necessary to spend those 4 in acrobat to get max threat reduction. I will try this setup and see how it works out.
    Unarmed monk guide with builds|The Arcane Warrior: wiz/fighter hybrids|White Feather Sniper: CC/dps focused deepwood stalker|The Divine Cuisinart: divine crusader tempest|The Count of Monte Cristo: swashbuckler|Hassan's Assassin: dex assassin|Dubbell O'Seven: WF artificer|Santa's Little Slayer: dragonmarked elf centered kensai

  20. #100
    The Hatchery CThruTheEgo's Avatar
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    Default Fully updated

    OP is now fully updated for U23. With the changes, the build reaches a 74 DC and the dps is sick. Whatever problems rogues had against undead before is now a thing of the past.
    Unarmed monk guide with builds|The Arcane Warrior: wiz/fighter hybrids|White Feather Sniper: CC/dps focused deepwood stalker|The Divine Cuisinart: divine crusader tempest|The Count of Monte Cristo: swashbuckler|Hassan's Assassin: dex assassin|Dubbell O'Seven: WF artificer|Santa's Little Slayer: dragonmarked elf centered kensai

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