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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feather_of_Sun View Post
    Hilarious!

    Thanks for the heads-up. I'm putting in a fix now for Patch 2.
    Feather what about fixing the other pale master bugs at the same time?
    - Deathward cast by party members blocks a pale masters ability to heal => dead pale master in raids
    - Spell absorption items like the Jeweled Cloak block healing and absorb charges
    - Deathward on skeleton summons blocks a pale masters ability to heal
    - The turn undead spell can be used in quests to kill pale masters

  2. #22
    Community Member Havok.cry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karavek View Post
    No what would be fun would be for this to be SOP. As it should be. Its not griefing for paladins to be killing undead on sight. Its the most D&D thing I have seen in this game in years. Expecting people who want to take on the persona of a paladin to tolerate those who persue the path of darkness is WRONG
    My PM is lawful good. Paladins should not have a problem with him.
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  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mystera View Post
    Feather what about fixing the other pale master bugs at the same time?
    - Deathward cast by party members blocks a pale masters ability to heal => dead pale master in raids
    - Spell absorption items like the Jeweled Cloak block healing and absorb charges
    - Deathward on skeleton summons blocks a pale masters ability to heal
    - The turn undead spell can be used in quests to kill pale masters
    - Quivering Palm and Stunning Fist no longer increment Everything is Nothing charges.
    - Canith Challenge Gear still shows the wrong Lores.
    - Canith Challenge Gear at Tier Three still isn't recognising that Masterful Craftsmanship has been used on it and so is two levels higher than it should be.
    - Spell Absorbtion effect on the Epic Phiarlan Mirror Cloak absorbs the Sun Soul Set Vorpal Effects.
    *Edit* Oh and the stupid ****ing Zoom Bug that forces me to restart my client after looking in Ingredient Bags. :/

    Added some of my personal annoyances.
    Last edited by Archangel_666; 08-30-2013 at 08:36 PM.

  4. #24
    Community Member Havok.cry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Highlander View Post
    A loot discrepancy with VON1 and you hotfix it ASAP.
    I agree with your post in general, but please at least get your facts straight. Von 1 fix was not a hotfix, that was patch 1.
    Matt Walsh:
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  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feather_of_Sun View Post
    Hilarious!

    Thanks for the heads-up. I'm putting in a fix now for Patch 2.
    Hilarious for anyone who doesn't get annoyed by it...
    Thanks for the quick response, I hope the patch comes soon.

    Quote Originally Posted by Karavek View Post
    No what would be fun would be for this to be SOP. As it should be. Its not griefing for paladins to be killing undead on sight. Its the most D&D thing I have seen in this game in years. Expecting people who want to take on the persona of a paladin to tolerate those who persue the path of darkness is WRONG
    I agree, it would be a step towards that end, but then we PMs should be allowed to attack those damn Holy Warriors too. The whole city would end up being a giant brawl/pvp area, wich would not be fun for many new players. Besides, it would be very unbalanced for the one side to have deathblock but no lightblock for the other (wich I think is kinda unfair already). We can't take on the powers of the duality, we can't profit from the tomes of flesh, skin and bones, we can't profit from any Necromancy power sources in the game, so we can't properly take on the role of a selfish, evil Necromancer (not to mention alignment restriction: No evil) and properly battle the pallys in role.

    Quote Originally Posted by Deadlock View Post
    Move along. Nothing to see here.

    Clearly a trivial matter such as this is not worthy of being included in an emergency hotfix patch.
    That's what I fear...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mystera View Post
    Feather what about fixing the other pale master bugs at the same time?
    - Deathward cast by party members blocks a pale masters ability to heal => dead pale master in raids
    - Spell absorption items like the Jeweled Cloak block healing and absorb charges
    - Deathward on skeleton summons blocks a pale masters ability to heal
    - The turn undead spell can be used in quests to kill pale masters
    I did not encounter the 2nd and 4th yet, because I never had spell absorption and I keep back when clerics go melee, but the other two were very annoying. I can toggle shroud off and back on, wich costs me 100 SP, and dismiss and resummons my skeleton, wich makes him loose all the other buffs and costs me 10 hp and 10 sp, but that is not a good solution.

    Quote Originally Posted by Havok.cry View Post
    My PM is lawful good. Paladins should not have a problem with him.
    So is mine, and I don't have a problem with anything except with divine casters, including trolls on my own team.

  6. #26
    Community Member Atremus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whereispowderedsilve View Post
    I wouldn't USUALLY do this BUT: Atremus my fellow orien brother from another mother at least give FoS a link or a *tiny* bit more info :P >< *just saying*

    *imo* *ymmv* (I know, I know quite a sore spot 4 u, I am sure! Sucks I know! ><) Cheers!
    Ah, you are probably right... Cannot-Cleanse-(update)-Epic-Flameward
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  7. #27
    Community Member FranOhmsford's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok.cry View Post
    My PM is lawful good. Paladins should not have a problem with him.
    In PnP My Necromancers were always Van Helsings' and/or Healers.

    Necromancy in D&D is NOT a matter of Evil Only!

    The Only Arcanes with Healing ability {not as strong as Divine of course} in 2nd Ed. Were Necromancers! - Oh and that Healing was NOT Negative Energy!


    As for Paladins - It's the Whole Rubbish Lawful Good = Lawful Stupid Argument again!

    Paladins get this oh so useful ability to Detect Evil - If a Pale Master doesn't show up on that then yeah the Paladin will most likely still be wary of him/her but will NOT Kill on Sight!

    Now wearing the Shroud of Undeath could mark you as Undead {and ALL Undead show up as Evil no matter what their personal alignment} BUT If you're going to be working with a Paladin it might be an idea to switch off the form so he/she knows you're NOT actually EVIL - Once He/She gets used to you you can switch the Shroud back on.

  8. #28
    Community Member Toro12's Avatar
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    What part of "hunter of the dead" don't you people understand?

    My shintao monk/pally doesn't give a flying F if your lawful good or not. You are still a aberration that need to be smitith. That fact that you choose to be tainted is all the more reason to strike down upon the with great anger and furious vengeance.

  9. #29
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    You could, as has been pointed out, be a HotD/PM cross-class and be like Blade or the chick from Underworld, would you be forced to constantly /death yourself?

    Quote Originally Posted by Toro12 View Post
    What part of "hunter of the dead" don't you people understand?

    My shintao monk/pally doesn't give a flying F if your lawful good or not. You are still a aberration that need to be smitith. That fact that you choose to be tainted is all the more reason to strike down upon the with great anger and furious vengeance.
    Even the most myopic "Hunter of the Dead" archetypes from books and movies always recognize that there's at least a few "good ones". Heck, a Druid would have more reason to indiscriminately kill Undead (they care more about the "aberration") than a Paladin, who's more concerned with preserving the Divine Justice or whatever. Not even a Druid, really, because they aren't ACTUAL undead, they haven't returned from a natural death to unnatural life, they're still alive, just with properties of un-life.

    If the Flame has a use for a PM in combatting the forces of evil that threaten the faithful, who is the Paladin to judge him?

  10. #30
    Community Member Toro12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by droid327 View Post
    You could, as has been pointed out, be a HotD/PM cross-class and be like Blade or the chick from Underworld, would you be forced to constantly /death yourself?



    Even the most myopic "Hunter of the Dead" archetypes from books and movies always recognize that there's at least a few "good ones". Heck, a Druid would have more reason to indiscriminately kill Undead (they care more about the "aberration") than a Paladin, who's more concerned with preserving the Divine Justice or whatever. Not even a Druid, really, because they aren't ACTUAL undead, they haven't returned from a natural death to unnatural life, they're still alive, just with properties of un-life.

    If the Flame has a use for a PM in combatting the forces of evil that threaten the faithful, who is the Paladin to judge him?
    If its dead and moving kill it.

    It's the shanto monk half that has the real problem with it.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karavek View Post
    No what would be fun would be for this to be SOP. As it should be. Its not griefing for paladins to be killing undead on sight. Its the most D&D thing I have seen in this game in years. Expecting people who want to take on the persona of a paladin to tolerate those who persue the path of darkness is WRONG
    You are correct except for one thing: If a Paladin agrees to cooperate with a Pale Master, it is WRONG to go against that agreement and kill him.

  12. #32
    Founder & Hero cdbd3rd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oradafu View Post
    Booooo! Fixing all the fun stuff.
    It all started long ago one rainy afternoon when one dev was teasing another in their game about being able to spin while resting at a rest shrine....

    Last edited by cdbd3rd; 08-31-2013 at 07:36 PM.
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  13. #33
    Community Member toaftoaf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HAL View Post
    You are correct except for one thing: If a Paladin agrees to cooperate with a Pale Master, it is WRONG to go against that agreement and kill him.
    "i would have done anything to save my daughter"

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nimulos View Post
    and dismiss and resummons my skeleton, wich makes him loose all the other buffs and costs me 10 hp and 10 sp, but that is not a good solution.
    There's an alternative work-around I've found for the Skellie pet. Have it Shrine. Removes the Deathward, but keeps the Ship Buffs.

    Not ideal, but there you go. *shrug*

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toro12 View Post
    What part of "hunter of the dead" don't you people understand?

    My shintao monk/pally doesn't give a flying F if your lawful good or not. You are still a aberration that need to be smitith. That fact that you choose to be tainted is all the more reason to strike down upon the with great anger and furious vengeance.
    Then we should a) have something to protect us from light damage, as you do have deathward and b) have some evil spells or something (we can't read the dead girls evil spellbook, we can't use duality, to give an example what could/should be fixed) that is not blocked by deathward and does notable damage to you or any other way to make up for the advantages you have. Also, how would you put that ingame? a pvp mode where anyone else that has pvp mode on can battle you right in the city without arena or anything, and without harming the others? Or just that every Paladin can attack any Pale master and some higher trolls go push themselves by killing noobs and killing their joy.

    Maybe an evil aligned part of the game would be possible too, with a completely different city where you arrive, you would have to unlock it ingame first through a certain questline or favor with a faction or some total favor step or something. Inside each others city you can't battle, but there is an open pvp area somewehre in between, where your spells only affect evil aligned (or good/neutral aligned if on the other side). Though that would be a HUGE deal of work, having to rework questlines or more likely make new ones that fit for an evil char.

    As of now, neither does exist and only a way for Pallys to kill PM and not the other way round is unfair and any battle options unbalanced, thus it needs to be fixed.

    Quote Originally Posted by droid327 View Post
    If the Flame has a use for a PM in combatting the forces of evil that threaten the faithful, who is the Paladin to judge him?
    Seeing as my PM is a rather uncommon type of Undying Court follower (rolewise) and the Flame practically can't stand the thought of any other faith playing a role (The quest with the sovereign host followers that apparently insulted a flame priest and need to be killed under the banner "Purge the Heretics", I don't know wether there are more), they would despise me anyways, too bad one can't work for an other religion and against the flame (I guess that would be evil, and evil is absolute here and the devs are biased towards the flame).

    Quote Originally Posted by Toro12 View Post
    If its dead and moving kill it.

    It's the shanto monk half that has the real problem with it.
    Then I should be able to at least hold you off by some means, if I can't convince you that I am on your side. (In game lore the suggestion spell should allow me to convince you to leave me be, but that's not possible in the actual game)

    Quote Originally Posted by Archangel_666 View Post
    There's an alternative work-around I've found for the Skellie pet. Have it Shrine. Removes the Deathward, but keeps the Ship Buffs.

    Not ideal, but there you go. *shrug*
    That does help with keeping the shippies, but until I actually get to a shrine it might be destroyed already. I know no quests that are in the level range where death ward mass get's problematic and have a shrine right away at the beginning, aside from the fact that this technique also removes any other buffs the buffers had cast on it.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nimulos View Post
    .
    .
    .
    Seeing as my PM is a rather uncommon type of Undying Court follower (rolewise) and the Flame practically can't stand the thought of any other faith playing a role (The quest with the sovereign host followers that apparently insulted a flame priest and need to be killed under the banner "Purge the Heretics", I don't know wether there are more), they would despise me anyways, too bad one can't work for an other religion and against the flame (I guess that would be evil, and evil is absolute here and the devs are biased towards the flame).
    .
    .
    .
    "Purge the Heretics" is given by Inquisitor Gnomon, who is a Rakshasa in disguise; this quest is hardly evidence regarding the true motives of the Silver Flame.
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  17. #37
    Community Member NaturalHazard's Avatar
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    This is why you shouldn't trust those paladins..........."trust me im a paladin"....."im lawful good"...........yeah right.

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tscheuss View Post
    "Purge the Heretics" is given by Inquisitor Gnomon, who is a Rakshasa in disguise; this quest is hardly evidence regarding the true motives of the Silver Flame.
    Wait, what? lemme check...

    Right you are, I did not notice that...

    That changes things a little, but it does not improve my view of the flame as intolerant.

    Still, wether it would be roleplay-fitting or not, fixing it is the better option until maybe a good solution for the roleplay battle is found that will ensure that only the roleplayers combat each other and noone that just wants to play without immediately getting nuked to death by OP pallys gets hindered.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toro12 View Post
    What part of "hunter of the dead" don't you people understand?

    My shintao monk/pally doesn't give a flying F if your lawful good or not. You are still a aberration that need to be smitith. That fact that you choose to be tainted is all the more reason to strike down upon the with great anger and furious vengeance.
    Well spoken brother well spoken.

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by HAL View Post
    You are correct except for one thing: If a Paladin agrees to cooperate with a Pale Master, it is WRONG to go against that agreement and kill him.
    Nope, old article in an issue of dragon clearly outlines that a DM may not punish a player of faith for being a true zealot who may well use questionable tools from time to time, but will also dispose of them once they have finished their use. When one serves a higher calling, all things not of that faith are instantly potential enemies that need to be dealt with if they can not be converted. Things like undead and the act of making/becoming one willing always makes a player become CE instantly and has been that way in the rules since 1st ed.

    There is no such thing as a good undead in PnP. The ONE exception I can recall found in an official published module and was from the realms, was a wizard who was also a devout follower of deneir the god of knowledge, He apparently was so engrossed in study that after he died from old age, deneir himself made the man a form of lich to keep on studying and keeping watch over his vast library.

    I can think of a novel written about a sun elf cleric of lathander who was turned into a vampire and guess what he still was instantly evil, tormented yes but evil, and infact was all the more evil in the eyes of the Powers That Be for the greater fall he took, hence he was sucked into ravenloft and it seemed ravenloft even wanted to use him to replace Mr Big Vamp himself. In the end only in his final moment of self sacrifice did that sun elf taste a LG alignment again, and still due to the game rule mechanics that I know of for that setting, there was no way in the 9 hells and the abyss's infinite layers for Lathander to reach in to that plane to rescue the poor SoBs soul. So an act of self sacrifice with the reward being eternal abandonment and torment in a realm of purest darkness. YAY!

    Good does not tolerate evil, evil rather craves to be surrounded by good to reach out and corrupt. Undead are an intolerable thing to see walk our fair streets.

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