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  1. #121
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    Wether or not TWF or lifestealing stays or goes, I'm starting to realize that wolf druids just aren't the answer to many things at high level EE. Which isn't unreasonable for a jack of all trades class. Yes you could multiclass a druid extensively to get some of the elements needed for dps, and some of the elements for defense, but at that point you don't have a druid anymore. So you might as well play your druid as you like, and if you hit a limit you want to go past in some way pick a more specialized class. TWF and other bugs just move that limit around.

    I'm realizing that I can bring a druid wolf to solid dps, but I can't get it to make saving throws at the same time, which gives me an EH destroyer, or party EE character. Which is perfectly ok. If I wanted to raise the bar all the way I'd copy this:

    https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...er-Build-Cetus

    But playing that might be like playing my sorc and leave me with unrealistic expectations of what everything I play should be able to do.
    Last edited by Tilomere; 10-17-2013 at 10:21 PM.

  2. #122
    Community Member Pilgrim1's Avatar
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    Many posts in this seam to come at this from the max DPS perspective, has anyone really looked into the reverse? For example in the past there have been monk stunning fist cleric/fvs builds that focus on DC casting with stunning fists and low melee damage.

    So I know I can get my caster druid in water form into viable EE earthquake DC (stormhorns), but is there a way to maintain this and to get out passable DPS that will out-strip the SLA that druids get, that plus amazing Stunning Fist?

    Also once again one of the best things about being a druid monk cross is you can basicly be a monk with kopleshes and stunning fist. Also I would expect a druid/monk to be able to reach a higher attack speed then any sort of other monk multi-class.

  3. #123
    Community Member elyssaria's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pilgrim1 View Post
    Many posts in this seam to come at this from the max DPS perspective, has anyone really looked into the reverse? For example in the past there have been monk stunning fist cleric/fvs builds that focus on DC casting with stunning fists and low melee damage.

    So I know I can get my caster druid in water form into viable EE earthquake DC (stormhorns), but is there a way to maintain this and to get out passable DPS that will out-strip the SLA that druids get, that plus amazing Stunning Fist?

    Also once again one of the best things about being a druid monk cross is you can basicly be a monk with kopleshes and stunning fist. Also I would expect a druid/monk to be able to reach a higher attack speed then any sort of other monk multi-class.
    Sure you can go with a stunning first build and have some DC for casting, but then again why going wolf/bear. What we are discussing here mainly is how viable the wolf/bear is in melee focus compared to other classes and even moreso the impact of having TWF feats working with Wolf/Bear forms atm.

    I find it very weird to see a monk cross using khopeshes and stunning first since stunning first requires that you are unarmed and if you are in wolf/bear form then the type of weapon doesn't matter since ie crit chance and multiplier doesn't carry over.

    /E
    Cannith - Characters: Khierra - Former The Dominator (U7) (TR 12Mnk/7rog/1ftr) now becoming 13 Rogue/6 Monk/ 1 Druid Staff Orc # Tisseltass - The Prodigy (10rgr/2rog/1mnk) # Smallpoxx (14 pure shintao monk, healing amp) # Azatooth (12ftr/5rog/1mnk) # Eleona (15fvs/2mnk) # Heliga Birgitta (7cleric/3monk, Healing Amp)

  4. #124
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    I did my sword/shield math wrong. It is a four attack swing with THF cleaves on attacks 1,3,4. And shield bashing isn't 12/minute, its a % of normal attacks two and four (no double shield bashes). I also want druid, not fighter, to compare wolf form TWF + shield and elemental THF + shield.

    A 20 druid using bastard sword/shield will have 18% double strike for new bastard sword, 5% PTWF, and 15% double strike from shield effects, for 38% total. (A fighter adds 31% to this from Kensai + STD)

    With 86.6 base attacks/minute (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...x-and-Formulae) this druid will go through 21.65 4 attack rotations/min.

    Each 4 attack rotation will make 3 glancing blow attacks on attacks 1, 3, and 4, (weaker but AoE cleave), so it really counts as an 7 attack rotation.
    Double strike on the 7 attack rotation will cause double glancing blow attacks on 1, 3 and 4, so has effectively full effect. So each 7 attack rotation will effectively hit 9.66 attacks/rotation. No glancing blows while moving though.

    A druid will also receive 20% shield bashes from Imp. Shield Bash feat and 20% Shield bash from a shield bashing shield, on normal attacks 2 and 4. There are 43.3 normal 2 and 4 attacks, so up to 17.32 shield bashes.

    9.66 attacks/rotation x 21.65 rotations/min = 209 attacks/minute, plus up to 17 shield bashes. (Fighter is 256 + 23 shield bashes)

    Also without haste.

    -----------------

    So one could maintain a large amount of attacks simply by going one step beyond dropping die steps and simply dropping wolf form, which ironically gives you die steps back. Then take the three feats saved by dropping NF > pick up bastard sword and max/emp. Take the 80 enhancement points saved and pick up 80 more spell power in Seasons Herald. Pick up 100% fort and stun immunity in elemental form. A 90 all spell power Sage's Ring combined with 40 spell craft will give you an all purpose 435 spell power for SLAs, while still maintaining hundreds of attacks/minute, the defense of a shield, and the superior defense of elemental form. Then you can twist energy burst. Of course, the real trick would be to make energy burst and bastard sword both work well at the same time off the same stat. There's nothing like a 10-20k energy burst twist to raise up that average dps a tad. /2 FVS divine might? Maybe /4?

    ------------------

    I'm thinking I focused my druid single target wolf melee dps too much taking advantage of things that are not WAI or being patched out. Can't handle swarms, but definitely rocks small groups. This would handle everything in the game, while capturing that druid feel.
    Last edited by Tilomere; 10-23-2013 at 02:35 AM.

  5. #125
    Community Member Diyon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elyssaria View Post
    I find it very weird to see a monk cross using khopeshes and stunning first since stunning first requires that you are unarmed and if you are in wolf/bear form then the type of weapon doesn't matter since ie crit chance and multiplier doesn't carry over.

    /E
    I believe they weren't suggesting actually using khopeshes, but saying that wolf form is basically the equivalent of wielding khopeshes from a crit profile perspective.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tilomere View Post
    I'm thinking I focused my druid single target wolf melee dps too much taking advantage of things that are not WAI or being patched out. Can't handle swarms, but definitely rocks small groups. This would handle everything in the game, while capturing that druid feel.
    My wolf druid tends to excel in swarm situations. It can generally survive them without much resource use and gets a lot of aggro off the party via my persistent aoe spells, as well as making the damage from those spells more efficient.
    Khyber: Runforr 13/6/1 Rog/Ftr/Mnk, Bakup 3/3/1 Mnk/Pal/Rog (TR Pal), Faylah 14 Mnk (TR Mnk), Janthyra 12/7/1 Brb/Rog/Ftr, Ainbthech 20 Sor, Fliethas 18/2 Fvs/Mnk, Unfilled 12/6/2 Mnk/Rgr/Ftr, Arcanemark 10 Wiz "Don't eat us dragon! We're like you, but smaller. And fly worse." - Kobold Crewman on the Heart of Wind

  6. #126
    Community Member elyssaria's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diyon View Post
    I believe they weren't suggesting actually using khopeshes, but saying that wolf form is basically the equivalent of wielding khopeshes from a crit profile perspective.



    My wolf druid tends to excel in swarm situations. It can generally survive them without much resource use and gets a lot of aggro off the party via my persistent aoe spells, as well as making the damage from those spells more efficient.
    Why no comments about his calculations comparing a normal sword and board build actually being superior compaired to a melee focused wolf? Whereas the wolf spend alot to become viable in melee and and his spec doesn't give up anything This again leads me to the conclusion that the wolf implementation needs some work.

    BR

    /E
    Cannith - Characters: Khierra - Former The Dominator (U7) (TR 12Mnk/7rog/1ftr) now becoming 13 Rogue/6 Monk/ 1 Druid Staff Orc # Tisseltass - The Prodigy (10rgr/2rog/1mnk) # Smallpoxx (14 pure shintao monk, healing amp) # Azatooth (12ftr/5rog/1mnk) # Eleona (15fvs/2mnk) # Heliga Birgitta (7cleric/3monk, Healing Amp)

  7. #127
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    After further reading on forums, I think I understand why fighter kensai doesn't work with handwraps/animal form. It is the same reason it doesn't work with shurikens. Kensai adds crit to a weapons profile, like adrenaline.

    Shurikens aren't coded as weapons, they are ammunition. Shurikens seem to buff a base dex/strength ranged attack. They receive poison damage from poison quivers which poison ammunition. Handwraps also aren't coded as weapons, but buffs to unarmed attacks. Therefore Kensai fails to add crit profile to handwraps as well, since they do not have a crit profile. This is also why dex to damage fails for unarmed. There is no weapon to convert the damage modifier on the weapon to dex. The +1 attack/damages all work since they are just bonuses to enhancement levels of the final attack.

    So if you want a good crit profile, you are left with enraged barb, which means you can't cast healing spells or function as a druid. I don't consider 17-20x3 good. Some people will say it is good because it matches a khopesh, and it does. However, no one takes khopesh proficiency to end up with the 17-20x3 crit profile of a non-magical khopesh. They take khopesh to use 18-20x3 base Drow Khopesh doubled by IC to 15-20x3 or better. A fighter adding one to base Drow Khopesh makes it 17-20x3 base, and 13-20x3 after IC:Slashing. 13-20x3 is the real khopesh profile and reason people take khopeshes. 14-20x3 a barb/druid can get I consider solid.

    ---------------------

    You can get some AoE healing with /4 FVS for smiting (and also pick up divine might for knockdown resistance, strength for tactics, and damage). Seems tight on feats though.

    ---------------------

    The math for a fighter sword/board of 279 attacks/minute means that when they remove TWF from bear, it is going to be beyond fixing unless something drastic is added. Bear needs THF + Shield if it doesn't have TWF + Shield. It seems that wolf needs TWF. Because of this, I think NF should be made to work similiarly to THF and TWF for bear and wolf respectively. Heck, maybe even have them work in elemental forms similiarly to TWF (fire) and THF (ice). I don't think they should be exact copies of TWF/THF since all these forms have unique attacks of their own that could use some buffing since U19 jacked druid hybrids of solid spells and NF seems to be the ideal candidate for natural form attacks. Then one could really have an adaptable character.

    -------------------------------------

    For example, imagine if NF added 10/20/30% offhand attacks, non-stacking with TWF, and 30/60/100% damage to wolf special attacks/spells. This would allow you to customize your druid with TWF + NF, or just NF, or just TWF. You could still multiclass a druid and add TWF/wolf for a lot of attacks, or just add NF for general bear and wolf use. Or maybe you just want to use your druid wolf to fuel solid animal form and other spells like it was before U19 so you get NF and metamagics.

    If the same NF added 10/20/30% glancing blows to bear like THF, and 30/60/100% bonus to bear special attacks/spells, or even Ice Elemental, a druid could adapt between different tanky or dps forms to suit their needs.
    Last edited by Tilomere; 03-11-2014 at 03:32 PM.

  8. #128
    Community Member Diyon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elyssaria View Post
    Why no comments about his calculations comparing a normal sword and board build actually being superior compaired to a melee focused wolf? Whereas the wolf spend alot to become viable in melee and and his spec doesn't give up anything This again leads me to the conclusion that the wolf implementation needs some work.

    BR

    /E
    Because while it useful to see that, it wasn't along the point I was personally going for. Comparing a fighter and druid directly is silly. Knowing where they stand relatively is not. A fighter and melee druid have different niches. Fighters are supposed to be melee monsters (generally). A wolf druid has many things that a pure fighter is not remotely capable of in a similar capacity. I was by no means trying to indicate that a melee druid will out dps a fighter in most situations (with skill/gear/etc being held equal), and no one should expect one to. That's like expecting a bard to consistently be more dps than fighters.

    Short answer, yes it is superior in some things, but not all things.
    Khyber: Runforr 13/6/1 Rog/Ftr/Mnk, Bakup 3/3/1 Mnk/Pal/Rog (TR Pal), Faylah 14 Mnk (TR Mnk), Janthyra 12/7/1 Brb/Rog/Ftr, Ainbthech 20 Sor, Fliethas 18/2 Fvs/Mnk, Unfilled 12/6/2 Mnk/Rgr/Ftr, Arcanemark 10 Wiz "Don't eat us dragon! We're like you, but smaller. And fly worse." - Kobold Crewman on the Heart of Wind

  9. #129
    Community Member elyssaria's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diyon View Post
    Because while it useful to see that, it wasn't along the point I was personally going for. Comparing a fighter and druid directly is silly. Knowing where they stand relatively is not. A fighter and melee druid have different niches. Fighters are supposed to be melee monsters (generally). A wolf druid has many things that a pure fighter is not remotely capable of in a similar capacity. I was by no means trying to indicate that a melee druid will out dps a fighter in most situations (with skill/gear/etc being held equal), and no one should expect one to. That's like expecting a bard to consistently be more dps than fighters.

    Short answer, yes it is superior in some things, but not all things.
    Well, I was actually saying Sword and Board...since Tilo's last comparisation wasn't about a fighter but a druid choosing sword and board instead of wolf form and to me it surely appear to be the better choice. That alone makes the wolf form at least not really useful at all. The bearform is not good in it's current form anyway but if they manage to make it viable then it could still be a choice. The wolf on the other hand is more a fluff choice imo.

    That's one thing that concerns me...

    Also one of the reasons I will TR one of my chars into a melee wizard which I am sure will have quite a bit more viability then my druid has atm. I might choose to do some similar version with a druid once they sort out the things with them, however as it is now my druid will stay pure caster since that is at least working pretty well.

    /E
    Cannith - Characters: Khierra - Former The Dominator (U7) (TR 12Mnk/7rog/1ftr) now becoming 13 Rogue/6 Monk/ 1 Druid Staff Orc # Tisseltass - The Prodigy (10rgr/2rog/1mnk) # Smallpoxx (14 pure shintao monk, healing amp) # Azatooth (12ftr/5rog/1mnk) # Eleona (15fvs/2mnk) # Heliga Birgitta (7cleric/3monk, Healing Amp)

  10. #130
    Community Member Diyon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elyssaria View Post
    Well, I was actually saying Sword and Board...since Tilo's last comparisation wasn't about a fighter but a druid choosing sword and board instead of wolf form and to me it surely appear to be the better choice. That alone makes the wolf form at least not really useful at all. The bearform is not good in it's current form anyway but if they manage to make it viable then it could still be a choice. The wolf on the other hand is more a fluff choice imo.

    That's one thing that concerns me...

    Also one of the reasons I will TR one of my chars into a melee wizard which I am sure will have quite a bit more viability then my druid has atm. I might choose to do some similar version with a druid once they sort out the things with them, however as it is now my druid will stay pure caster since that is at least working pretty well.

    /E
    Sorry, was thinking of a different line of talk there. Let me properly comment on that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tilomere View Post
    I did my sword/shield math wrong. It is a four attack swing with THF cleaves on attacks 1,3,4. And shield bashing isn't 12/minute, its a % of normal attacks two and four (no double shield bashes). I also want druid, not fighter, to compare wolf form TWF + shield and elemental THF + shield.

    A 20 druid using bastard sword/shield will have 18% double strike for new bastard sword, 5% PTWF, and 15% double strike from shield effects, for 38% total. (A fighter adds 31% to this from Kensai + STD)

    With 86.6 base attacks/minute (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...x-and-Formulae) this druid will go through 21.65 4 attack rotations/min.

    Each 4 attack rotation will make 3 glancing blow attacks on attacks 1, 3, and 4, (weaker but AoE cleave), so it really counts as an 7 attack rotation.
    Double strike on the 7 attack rotation will cause double glancing blow attacks on 1, 3 and 4, so has effectively full effect. So each 7 attack rotation will effectively hit 9.66 attacks/rotation. No glancing blows while moving though.

    A druid will also receive 20% shield bashes from Imp. Shield Bash feat and 20% Shield bash from a shield bashing shield, on normal attacks 2 and 4. There are 43.3 normal 2 and 4 attacks, so up to 17.32 shield bashes.

    9.66 attacks/rotation x 21.65 rotations/min = 209 attacks/minute, plus up to 17 shield bashes. (Fighter is 256 + 23 shield bashes)

    Also without haste.
    .
    168.675 attacks/min (no haste) vs. 209.139 attacks/min (no haste) (plus some shield bashes). Something to keep in mind:

    - 89.631 of those attacks deal 50% base damage and only 8.06679 of them will deal special damage/effect stuff. If for simplicity purposes we ignore the 9% special stuff, this translates to the equivalent of 44.8155 glancing blows per minute. So effectively this is 164.3235 full damage attacks/minute (+17.32 shield bashes). This comes much closer to the wolf (168.675 attacks/min).

    -Each of those wolf attacks will deal +9 base damage and 8d6 (28 average) sneak attack damage. That's something worth noting.

    -Takedown, Baiting Bite, Jaws of Winter, and Alpha strike can add up to 108[W] extra per minute. Factoring in crits, about 173[W], 194[W] if you have a x4 multiplier.

    -Essence of the Shrike on average will be generating up to 674.7 spell points per minute (I am aware that this won't always be used effectively, but that is still a staggering amount of SP even cut in half).

    -Getting the shield bashes makes it more feat intensive than the feat intensive melee wolf (NF replaced with THF line, imp. shield bash is +1 over).

    -Snowslide. Rocket wolf ftw.

    -10 more PRR

    -Here's one I don't ever see mentioned: Harrowing Pack, 4th lvl buff spell- The wolf pack hounds their prey, attacking from all sides. Grants the caster and all of his or her hirelings, pets, summoned creatures, and charmed creatures a +2 enhancement bonus to flanking attacks, and granting them a knockdown effect when they roll a 20 on attack rolls. Not sure if that enhancement thing means damage too or not. I suspect it wouldn't stack with weapon enhancement and magic fang anyways. Something I should test though.


    That said, I'm not trying to say the non wolf sword and board druid wouldn't have its advantages either. Elemental forms are awesome, body of the sun is a lot of fun. The glancing blows produce more aoe melee damage. I just wanted to point out what may have been overlooked.
    Last edited by Diyon; 10-24-2013 at 01:17 AM.
    Khyber: Runforr 13/6/1 Rog/Ftr/Mnk, Bakup 3/3/1 Mnk/Pal/Rog (TR Pal), Faylah 14 Mnk (TR Mnk), Janthyra 12/7/1 Brb/Rog/Ftr, Ainbthech 20 Sor, Fliethas 18/2 Fvs/Mnk, Unfilled 12/6/2 Mnk/Rgr/Ftr, Arcanemark 10 Wiz "Don't eat us dragon! We're like you, but smaller. And fly worse." - Kobold Crewman on the Heart of Wind

  11. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diyon View Post

    -Here's one I don't ever see mentioned: Harrowing Pack, 4th lvl buff spell- The wolf pack hounds their prey, attacking from all sides. Grants the caster and all of his or her hirelings, pets, summoned creatures, and charmed creatures a +2 enhancement bonus to flanking attacks, and granting them a knockdown effect when they roll a 20 on attack rolls.
    I never got the knockdown on this to work. I don't know if has been fixed since I last tested it a few months back. I know the ED balanced attacks knockdown from PA works. I don't think anyone mentions it since it's bugged.

  12. #132
    Community Member elyssaria's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tilomere View Post
    I never got the knockdown on this to work. I don't know if has been fixed since I last tested it a few months back. I know the ED balanced attacks knockdown from PA works. I don't think anyone mentions it since it's bugged.
    I also tried this quite extensively and couldn't get any knockdowns to work either. Also I believe the flanking bonus is a +to hit bonus and not a +damage bonus since that's what the normal benefits are when you are flanking.

    Diyon - Yes I know the wolf gets some attacks from the spells and I also am aware that it gets sneak attacks. However we shall not forget that the shield and board druid have alot of enhancement points that he/she can use on enhancements to boost his own damage too.. ie a 18/2 druid monk halfelf rogue dilettante could easily at a low cost gain 5d6 sneak attack damage too for quite few enhancement points to be honest, and could utilize the extra double strike from shintao, have evasion permanent without being forced into one specific ED. What I meant to say is that the shield and board version gives you more aoe damage, more options to where you want to go since you actually have the some extra enhancements points free to spend on other stuff. My first version (before I rerolled to pure caster druid) actually spent about all his enhancement points into the natures warrior and seasoned herald trees except for 3 point into the human enhancement tree. That since it was the only possible way to get the melee somewhat decent and still having the spells somewhat effective too and as you say essence of the shrike is more or less mandatory in a wolf build and so is the natural adept enhancement to lessen the penalties of being a wolf.
    Cannith - Characters: Khierra - Former The Dominator (U7) (TR 12Mnk/7rog/1ftr) now becoming 13 Rogue/6 Monk/ 1 Druid Staff Orc # Tisseltass - The Prodigy (10rgr/2rog/1mnk) # Smallpoxx (14 pure shintao monk, healing amp) # Azatooth (12ftr/5rog/1mnk) # Eleona (15fvs/2mnk) # Heliga Birgitta (7cleric/3monk, Healing Amp)

  13. #133
    Community Member Diyon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tilomere View Post
    I never got the knockdown on this to work. I don't know if has been fixed since I last tested it a few months back. I know the ED balanced attacks knockdown from PA works. I don't think anyone mentions it since it's bugged.
    Quote Originally Posted by elyssaria View Post
    I also tried this quite extensively and couldn't get any knockdowns to work either. Also I believe the flanking bonus is a +to hit bonus and not a +damage bonus since that's what the normal benefits are when you are flanking.

    Diyon - Yes I know the wolf gets some attacks from the spells and I also am aware that it gets sneak attacks. However we shall not forget that the shield and board druid have alot of enhancement points that he/she can use on enhancements to boost his own damage too.. ie a 18/2 druid monk halfelf rogue dilettante could easily at a low cost gain 5d6 sneak attack damage too for quite few enhancement points to be honest, and could utilize the extra double strike from shintao, have evasion permanent without being forced into one specific ED. What I meant to say is that the shield and board version gives you more aoe damage, more options to where you want to go since you actually have the some extra enhancements points free to spend on other stuff. My first version (before I rerolled to pure caster druid) actually spent about all his enhancement points into the natures warrior and seasoned herald trees except for 3 point into the human enhancement tree. That since it was the only possible way to get the melee somewhat decent and still having the spells somewhat effective too and as you say essence of the shrike is more or less mandatory in a wolf build and so is the natural adept enhancement to lessen the penalties of being a wolf.
    It may indeed be bugged. I've always just taken it for granted but I hadn't heard (until now) of it being bugged.

    The comparison I just made was strictly a pure druid to pure druid. Start throwing splashes in there and it changes things. Many of those things would benefit both similarly. As to enhancements, on my pure build, I don't really have much else to spend them on honestly if I were to change it to a non wolf sword and board, so it really doesn't feel like its freeing up much.

    And again, nothing wrong with that set up. It definitely has its benefits. My point was just to illustrate that the wolf is still more or less in the same ball park.
    Last edited by Diyon; 10-24-2013 at 12:47 PM.
    Khyber: Runforr 13/6/1 Rog/Ftr/Mnk, Bakup 3/3/1 Mnk/Pal/Rog (TR Pal), Faylah 14 Mnk (TR Mnk), Janthyra 12/7/1 Brb/Rog/Ftr, Ainbthech 20 Sor, Fliethas 18/2 Fvs/Mnk, Unfilled 12/6/2 Mnk/Rgr/Ftr, Arcanemark 10 Wiz "Don't eat us dragon! We're like you, but smaller. And fly worse." - Kobold Crewman on the Heart of Wind

  14. #134
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    I deleted build here moved it to my build post.

    I've been working towards making an all purpose druid build. I'm finding that with a few metamagics, a few defensive and utility feats, there are only a few feats left to increase combat damage. So I need a set of feats that works across all five forms in order to make a druid that functions like a druid and shape shifts around. Right now it is TWF. I don't really care what it is in the future, as long as it exists.

    NF doesn't do that. NF feats are fantastic in that they let you further specialize if you choose, but they lock you in to only a few druid aspects, so you cant function like a full druid.
    Last edited by Tilomere; 11-02-2013 at 03:14 PM.

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    Default dont nerf twf from druid animal form

    why u want nerf druid animal form? dps with twf chain in wolf form is lower then acrobat, acrobats get +25% DS and 15% attack speed and 13-20x3 critical profile with sireth. Finally wolf build is competetive to other insine builds like acrobat with sireth or monk with quivering palm, cetus build and others. Before enhacement pass wolf build 9druid9monk2fighter was one of superb dps builds, enhacement pass killed this build to the ground, now build like 10druid8fighter2monk coming back! These animal build have some strong pros but also strong cons like no bludgeon damage in form, feat starved, no meele aoe dps like twohander.Please dont do a change to animal druids, its not over powered!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Khain View Post
    why u want nerf druid animal form? dps with twf chain in wolf form is lower then acrobat, acrobats get +25% DS and 15% attack speed and 13-20x3 critical profile with sireth. Finally wolf build is competetive to other insine builds like acrobat with sireth or monk with quivering palm, cetus build and others. Before enhacement pass wolf build 9druid9monk2fighter was one of superb dps builds, enhacement pass killed this build to the ground, now build like 10druid8fighter2monk coming back! These animal build have some strong pros but also strong cons like no bludgeon damage in form, feat starved, no meele aoe dps like twohander.Please dont do a change to animal druids, its not over powered!
    is twf still working with druid wolf/bear form or did they fix it by now ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by bartosy View Post
    is twf still working with druid wolf/bear form or did they fix it by now ?
    It should, as I still get all the hit and dmg penalties in Animal Form when equipping two weapons -.-

  18. #138
    Community Member inspiredunease's Avatar
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    As of yesterday it was still working. Don't be surprised at a stealth nerf in U21 or 22 though. Anyone tested it in Lamaland since the alpha u21 build dropped?

  19. #139
    The Hatchery serthcore's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by inspiredunease View Post
    As of yesterday it was still working. Don't be surprised at a stealth nerf in U21 or 22 though. Anyone tested it in Lamaland since the alpha u21 build dropped?
    As of today it still works on lamania u21
    Argo: - Trolls Lair / Intransigence

  20. #140
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    Default What is the latest word on this?

    Quote Originally Posted by serthcore View Post
    As of today it still works on lamania u21
    What is the latest word on this?

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