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  1. #1
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    Default Frustration Setting in, DCs and EE

    Im getting really frustrated right now. After a long time of TRing i piled up 28 lifes on my main, a wizard.
    I took every PL that provided any sort of bonus for my PM build to be able to cast efficiently in EE content.
    All that i need right now, to max out my dc (currently at 66) is a blue helmet and the nether orb, which would be effectively 2 dcs (carrying a +4 nec focus item right now).

    EH is working easily with this dc, on EE on the other hand i cant do **** with it, discos, beeing saved (+4 focus, no feats though) webs get ripped appart and landing insta death spells on anything but casters (which is also saved regulary) is rather senseless, given the fact they need several neg lvls before they work. Kiting through a SOD may help, but then again they hit like a truck, piling up to 200-400 per hit, which leaves me with my 800 hp kind of vulnable.

    My overall conclusion: dcs for EE need an adjustment, or the wizard (PM) is technicly dead and useless in there.
    This is what i would call a flawed and bad design, as it forces me to pick Schiradi over Magister and leaves me a mm monkey.
    Next to that, the elemental dmg of wizards (PM) arent that great, compared to a possible AM/Sorc. The insanly high hps of the mobs is therefore another grain of salt in the wound. Even the SLAs, which recieved a long needed boost get totally countered by a simple deathward spell, which seems to be undispellable, even with mordekins, leaving me with the simple option to waste a lot of sp on medicore dmg or to have a time out when facing dw rednamed.

    The arcane Spellsurge is helping, but a) also not always, b) 20 secs can be a rather short time, given the ammount of mobs appearing, spreading appeart, casting times and cooldowns (not to forget the 3 min cooldown on spellsurge ).

    I start wondering if the last 2 dcs will make the difference, but in general im disappointed, as i hoped that high work would result into high gain.

    Then again, im not counting me as a casual player, and im wondering what will they do once they get the desire to try EE and try to find the items, instead of buying them for tons of A$. If i, as a lvl28 Completionist Drow PM with a nearly maxed out gear and maxed out ED (one of the mystical 8) cant get onto them, anything more casual than me will just be a stone on in the inventory, or an afk till q is finished.

    I am not voting for an IWIN and all dies button here, but im concerned this will drive a lot of players away, either killing thier fun or thier ambition to play at all. A friend of mine, currently playing a midllvl PM alreraddy stated he will drop the idea to play a wizard, as he wouldnt be able to get even close to the stuff i have. I recognize EE isnt for evryone, and its meant to be challenging, but i think right now it is over the top and needs adjusment.

    For my Setup: (~800hp/3.6k sp)
    Drow: max int, max con +4 tomes to all, +5 tome for int, all lvlups into Int
    Featlist: Max, Emp, Hight, Quick, Mental Toughness, Imp Mental Toughness, Completionist, PL Wiz, Necrofocus I,II,III, Spellpen, gretaer Spellpen, Epic Spellpen, Insightfull ref, /Ebonus: spellpower neg, efocus spellcraft
    Pastlives: each 3 times exept 1 times only: Fgt, Mnk, Paly, Rng, Rog, Bard.
    Twists: Endless faith, echoes Magister, 1lvl3 slot for adjusting to current q/1 int to even out if uneven
    Current gear:
    Master Illusionist gloves EE, Sage's Cuffs, Boots open for adjustmnent (erock, FOM, Propulsion)
    Tablecloth T2, con10 dodge 10 belt, litany, conc opp sp googs, eblue robe, torc, minII hp helm, Abbot quiver, tod ring +6int exept1 int exept 2 int, Tod ring +6 str exept 1 con exept2 con
    Weapons: En nether orb +4 enchant, scepter +4 necro
    Int ring gonna be swapped for 50hp ring once i get blue helm +3 int, torc will move for conc opp hp necky, bracers prob gonna be edq
    Current augments: 200 sp, 35hp, impr Mental toughness, + necro focus will be swapped for 2x greater int feat.
    Using Yugo pots INT

    Any advice, besides cookies and store potions and having a bard at swordpoint, how to make things work for me (and evenly important for people that cant pile up what i have)?
    Dev answer appreciated
    Thelanis: Errtu-1, Cherubael, Nararian, Seyria, Yarrrkk, Apothecarius, Tarcus-1, Kheradruakh, Evesor, Experimentum

  2. #2
    Community Member mistalley's Avatar
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    It seems you are quite good geared and past lifed wizard, I feel your pain with such efforts, you dc is still not high enough for ee.

    I suggest you use energy drain more often and try to cc with no save spells, such as solid fog/ice storm to lower the speed of mobs.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by mistalley View Post
    It seems you are quite good geared and past lifed wizard, I feel your pain with such efforts, you dc is still not high enough for ee.

    I suggest you use energy drain more often and try to cc with no save spells, such as solid fog/ice storm to lower the speed of mobs.
    already doing, + use of ck for misschance and con drain
    Thelanis: Errtu-1, Cherubael, Nararian, Seyria, Yarrrkk, Apothecarius, Tarcus-1, Kheradruakh, Evesor, Experimentum

  4. #4
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    And that is why after dozens of lives on my two main characters - one sorc, one wizard I stopped.
    NOTHING you do will make you as effective as a first life war forged shiradi in epic elite. Worse, nothing you do will make you of any use at all, no items, no past lives. Having multiple caster past lives is pointless, what good is +9 spell pen when the only spells you actually cast have "magic" and "missile" in their name.

    No hearts, no xp pots, no boxes. Past lives are useless for casters, so might as well save money and more importantly time. I suppose that it also explains why I don't play this game much anymore.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koshei View Post
    And that is why after dozens of lives on my two main characters - one sorc, one wizard I stopped.
    NOTHING you do will make you as effective as a first life war forged shiradi in epic elite. Worse, nothing you do will make you of any use at all, no items, no past lives. Having multiple caster past lives is pointless, what good is +9 spell pen when the only spells you actually cast have "magic" and "missile" in their name.

    No hearts, no xp pots, no boxes. Past lives are useless for casters, so might as well save money and more importantly time. I suppose that it also explains why I don't play this game much anymore.
    And i feel this is basicly wrong, and thats why i try to bring attention to the topic, if you invest a lot, you should gain a lot
    Thelanis: Errtu-1, Cherubael, Nararian, Seyria, Yarrrkk, Apothecarius, Tarcus-1, Kheradruakh, Evesor, Experimentum

  6. #6
    Community Member Forzah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TimethiefXVI View Post
    And i feel this is basicly wrong, and thats why i try to bring attention to the topic, if you invest a lot, you should gain a lot
    I disagree. The gains of TR'ing should be minor at best. You can't expect a new player or new toon to TR 10 times before becoming effective.

    That said, I don't want to see the insta-kill fest that started with the removal of epic ward returning. Making DCs of non insta-kill spells work is perfectly fine with me, but please, no more of that insta-kill pale master nonsense that ruins teamplay.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forzah View Post
    I disagree. The gains of TR'ing should be minor at best. You can't expect a new player or new toon to TR 10 times before becoming effective.
    pls read my post, it is one of my major concerns. i know that i have nearly reached the maximum aviable, and if i fail there, where will less experienced, less geared chars fail.

    Quote Originally Posted by Forzah View Post
    That said, I don't want to see the insta-kill fest that started with the removal of epic ward returning. Making DCs of non insta-kill spells work is perfectly fine with me, but please, no more of that insta-kill pale master nonsense that ruins teamplay.
    point of view here. I cant instakill all mobs in the dungeon, im aware of, and wether it should be an option or not is a different discussion. You can see it a different way for teamplay: i open the way for my party to go for the boss and keep trash away.
    But if you define Teamplay aka bohoo, i cant reach the highest killcount and all casters should work for MY melee to deal the most and the best dmg you are mistaken.
    Teamplay means for me to combine the best advantages each one has to offer and get the best gain from it.

    Overall, i think u mistook me on a lot of points, pls tell where i can clarify my statements.
    Thelanis: Errtu-1, Cherubael, Nararian, Seyria, Yarrrkk, Apothecarius, Tarcus-1, Kheradruakh, Evesor, Experimentum

  8. #8
    Community Member Forzah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TimethiefXVI View Post
    pls read my post, it is one of my major concerns. i know that i have nearly reached the maximum aviable, and if i fail there, where will less experienced, less geared chars fail.
    I was referring to the point "if you invest a lot, you should gain a lot", which I disagree with. I do, however, agree with you that DC casting should be more effective on EE for anyone that does his best to maximize his viability.

    Quote Originally Posted by TimethiefXVI View Post
    point of view here. I cant instakill all mobs in the dungeon, im aware of, and wether it should be an option or not is a different discussion. You can see it a different way for teamplay: i open the way for my party to go for the boss and keep trash away.
    But if you define Teamplay aka bohoo, i cant reach the highest killcount and all casters should work for MY melee to deal the most and the best dmg you are mistaken.
    Teamplay means for me to combine the best advantages each one has to offer and get the best gain from it.

    Overall, i think u mistook me on a lot of points, pls tell where i can clarify my statements.
    I understand your post and your concerns. I just wanted to make a point about which spells should be viable on EE and which shouldn't, because making DCs better across the board seems like an unbalanced idea to me. Imo, everybody should be able to contribute to kills made in the dungeon. It's boring if one toon can do all of the work without help of others. Therefore I would like enchantment DCs to be effective, while instakills should require significantly more effort to work.

  9. #9
    Community Member Aeron1976's Avatar
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    Default Time invested should be rewarded

    Totally agree with OP.

    Not really agree here:
    Quote Originally Posted by Forzah View Post
    It's boring if one toon can do all of the work without help of others. Therefore I would like enchantment DCs to be effective, while instakills should require significantly more effort to work.
    Correct in the first part: It's boring if one toon can do all of the work without help of others
    Thats what Shiradi do/are at the moment, no matter if first lifer or completionist, reasonably geared they outdo nearly anything.

    False on this statement though: Therefore I would like enchantment DCs to be effective, while instakills should require significantly more effort to work.

    Insta-kill means exactly that and not prep w a few SoD/ED, and if you look at his post closely he put quite a lot of work into his DCs and still they don't count.
    I feel there is a misbalance, since mostly the "veterans" keep this game runing and its a leaves a bad taste when you can just level your first toon to 25 and outdo one with long hours of dedication in the past.

  10. #10
    Community Member Wizza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forzah View Post
    Therefore I would like enchantment DCs to be effective, while instakills should require significantly more effort to work.
    He has a maxed toon. If THAT isn't "more effort" then I've no idea what it is.

    @OP: What's your necro DC anyway? Haven't spotted it in the OP.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forzah View Post
    That said, I don't want to see the insta-kill fest that started with the removal of epic ward returning. Making DCs of non insta-kill spells work is perfectly fine with me, but please, no more of that insta-kill pale master nonsense that ruins teamplay.
    And Master blitzer's who hog all the action aren't killjoys too?

    Divines should get more spell points, melee should get more action boost/clickies, and the shrines be spread further apart to test out us necro types.

    OP, I'm in a similar position. 22 lives and a 61 necro dc at Level 21 (missing a Spell Focus mastery at the moment), I am hoping that there will be some fun still in the game when I reach the higher levels.
    Last edited by kwyjibo_lol; 08-30-2013 at 06:10 AM.

  12. #12
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    My 3 past life druid has a wolf that hits for 50 instead of 47, so an increase of 3 dps, 5 dps if I also have an elder dryad out.


    Is your dc caster more powerful than a Shiradi in EH and below content?

    Is it fair for your dc caster to be more powerful than a Shiradi in EH and below and equal in EE content?
    Last edited by Tilomere; 08-30-2013 at 06:24 AM.

  13. #13
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    So you're complaining that the hardest challenge in the game is actually a challenge? If you wait long enough maybe someone else will do it for you too.

  14. #14
    Community Member darthhento's Avatar
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    The DCs on EE are ridiculous. Shiradi on a caster is so broken that it's not even funny.

    Quote Originally Posted by Forzah View Post
    That said, I don't want to see the insta-kill fest that started with the removal of epic ward returning. Making DCs of non insta-kill spells work is perfectly fine with me, but please, no more of that insta-kill pale master nonsense that ruins teamplay.
    Wail has been nerfed into oblivion, and broken for so long that it's not even funny. Orange or Red names can't be instakilled anyway. DCs of TRASHMOBS need to be lowered sewerely so that spells that have a DC actually work on TRASHMOBS. If melee are able to decimate trashmobs why the hell are casters with limited spellpool not alowed to do the same?

    Quote Originally Posted by Firepants View Post
    So you're complaining that the hardest challenge in the game is actually a challenge? If you wait long enough maybe someone else will do it for you too.
    You're missing the point. A first lifer on a beyond broken ED is more effective then a traditional specialist with a ton of experience and gear.
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  15. #15
    Community Member The_Spirit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by darthhento View Post
    The DCs on EE are ridiculous. Shiradi on a caster is so broken that it's not even funny.

    Wail has been nerfed into oblivion, and broken for so long that it's not even funny. Orange or Red names can't be instakilled anyway. DCs of TRASHMOBS need to be lowered sewerely so that spells that have a DC actually work on TRASHMOBS. If melee are able to decimate trashmobs why the hell are casters with limited spellpool not alowed to do the same?

    You're missing the point. A first lifer on a beyond broken ED is more effective then a traditional specialist with a ton of experience and gear.
    So your solution for the borked Shiradi ED is to enable another caster type the same overpowered ability to trivialise EE content and make other teammembers obsolete?
    Shouldn't the solution to overpowered first life Shiradis be something that involves Shiradis? And not making another Class/ED combination as overpowered?

  16. #16
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    Most arcanes are already far more powerful than most melees. I'm not sure what's going on with the OP, but I've run EEs with wizards in my guild who not only had no problem insta-killing things, they did it well enough that I felt like I was redundant except for beating down red names. I remember one of the Stormhorns I did with a guildie, and he ended up with 5 times as many kills as I did, at least. Many of them dead before I could even close to melee range.

    Of all the things in this game that need adjustment, making arcanes more powerful should be near the very bottom of the list.
    Last edited by Qaliya; 08-30-2013 at 06:58 AM.

  17. #17
    Community Member anivaj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qaliya View Post
    Most arcanes are already far more powerful than most melees. I'm not sure what's going on with the OP, but I've run EEs with wizards in my guild who not only had no problem insta-killing things, they did it well enough that I felt like I was redundant except for beating down red names. I remember one of the Stormhorns I did with a guildie, and he ended up with 5 times as many kills as I did, at least. Many of them dead before I could even close to melee range.

    Of all the things in this game that need adjustment, making arcanes more powerful should be near the very bottom of the list.
    Then he must have been energy draining them multiple times and drinking pots like a drunken sailor. DCs in endgame EEs is ridiculous....
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  18. #18
    Community Member Atremus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qaliya View Post
    Most arcanes are already far more powerful than most melees.
    Melee has been far more viable than a DC Caster since the High Road. The mob saves are inflated in EE making DC casting a hail marry play style. DC casting needs an adjustment to be viable as a play style.
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  19. #19
    The Hatchery stoerm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Spirit View Post
    And not making another Class/ED combination as overpowered?
    I don't think the OP is asking to make EE a cakewalk. He's asking to be useful. If a mainstream character type (pure pale master) that is maxed out in every way possible cannot play a useful part, it's clearly broken.

    Qaliya: were your guildy arcanes using DC spells or nuking them?
    Praise the Dark Six and pass the heals to pure melees.
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  20. #20
    Community Member Forzah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwyjibo_lol View Post
    And Master blitzer's who hog all the action aren't killjoys too?

    Divines should get more spell points, melee should get more action boost/clickies, and the shrines be spread further apart to test out us necro types.

    OP, I'm in a similar position. 22 lives and a 61 necro dc at Level 21 (missing a Spell Focus mastery at the moment), I am hoping that there will be some fun still in the game when I reach the higher levels.
    Ridiculous abilities like masters blitz, adrenaline, and shiradi should too be nerfed. In addition monster HP on EE should be reduced significantly. This makes other epic destinies relatively more powerful and reduces the power creep in the game.

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