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  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by IronClan View Post
    Accept your niche DDO, embrace it and stop trying to pander to a player base that will never ever stay with you... Like the nerdy guy who took up body building and started watching Twilight, and wearing designer clothes, but still didn't get the hot girl; You should turn back to the nerdy but cute girl that always liked you for who you were, even before you got (sortah) buff
    QFT. Devs, ProducerRowan, you seriously need to read this and think on it. At length.

    Greetz,
    Red Orm

  2. #82
    The Hatchery SisAmethyst's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ungood View Post


    See, see what happens when he responded? People took it as an invite to jump all over the guy.

    I mean really, of all things too.. to go after Ghostbane? ...
    The point is less that we get a better effect, but you seem to miss the same point as the Devs seem to miss. Nobody would care, or better say everybody would applaud if this would have been added additionally!

    The point's are:
    1. Ghost-banes may have a higher modifier, while Ghost-touch only is +1
    2. Due to (1) it will make the weapon a higher ML °
    3. Ghost-touch was also useful for other incorporeal mobs or players
    4. To also remove a bunch other prefix/suffix in this process ²

    ° Keep in mind it is a random property and usually come with other properties too, and if it is true why they changed it, then the first quests where players struggle with undead are the catacombs which are level 3!

    ² Adding them later (in how many years, after how many other changes?) for higher level where some of the prefix/suffix are utterly useless. Not to mention that it is absolutely contra the voiced intention to make it easier for new players that find it too hard, because this new players are as said leaving in lower levels...

    Also the question should be why do players leave in lower levels? Maybe it is not due to the mobs they encounter or the game play being to hard. Maybe they just figured that DDO is not their kind of game and they are better of with WOW, NNO, GW2 etc. Making DDO more like this games is the false attempt because who say that they even stick with those games and not went a totally different direction and go for Counter Strike and Co.?
    Last edited by SisAmethyst; 08-31-2013 at 05:42 AM.
    * We have collectable bags, hell even hireling folders, but can I have that 6-pack for my potions please?
    * Having already a past life on the dieng EU servers, I rerolled here and started from scratch as I like the game and the community, so lets see what awaits me here

  3. #83
    Community Member PpalP's Avatar
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    Maybe the marketing team is not aware of the current&old player base, most of them play/played PnP and I think that we're not casual player, in fact any MMO aren't casual games, can be more "easy" or complex" but not casual.

    DDO have a strong points, so as IronClan said (better than I for sure) it's better to promote that facet of the game than do the opposite; sometimes I feel that Devs act against the players instead with them, a bad thing for any game.

  4. #84
    Community Member visibleman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    I am not aware of any missing item properties that were not deliberately removed as part of the switch over to various tiered levels of item properties. If you feel an item is missing that should not be, send in a bug on it and someone can take a look.
    Quote Originally Posted by Feather_of_Sun View Post
    So far we're seeing encouraging results. The changes made are making it easier for characters at all levels of play to find suitable weapons for the challenges they encounter.

    Some other missing effects are only gone temporarily, such as Bodyfeeder or ability score damage on hit.
    They will be re-introduced once higher-level versions are created so that you can continue finding better versions of them as you level.
    I for one would very much like to find a Keen (U19) Weapon of Mangling (U14) with a Red Slot.

    Can you confirm if this is possible with the current loot tables?
    Argonessen: Breyard, Kayuss, Breymer, Vilar, Zhanmadao
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  5. #85
    Community Member Ungood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PermaBanned View Post
    First, since we were asking about all the missing properties & clickies, and Feathers response was centered around the success of Ghostbane, it makes sense that's what people would respond to.
    Well that snowball happened because I mentioned it, and he quoted me and responded to that.

    Personally I am rather stunned that people would want separate inferior effects that would reduce the DPS and functionally of a weapon, the Ghostbane effect is better in every way then having them separate was, it combines two effects, and shows how this can be done in a scaling manner. I would like to hope that this effect sets the stage for the future of dual ability effects, like Lacerating, etc, when they make their return.

    The rest of us still wonder about all the missing stuff that seems to fall under the release notes broad umbrella of "some effects have been removed" where "some" seems to include: all clickies, all named combo effects (except Ghostbane and Thaumaturgy), and many other properties like convalescent. Cordovan kindly suggested we bug report anything we think should be dropping but isn't, however we have nothing official to go by as far as what should or should not be dropping to base these bug reports on. If you have to roll your eyes, roll 'em at that.
    No, I at the fact that we were told in the patch notes that some effects were going to go away to be worked on, because there is going to be a whole new system put in, and now we are asking "what happened? Some of the effects went away" and when we get a response, some people take that as an invite to just openly vent their feelings on the game overall no matter how off topic doing so may be.

    Second, just because some idjits will respond poorly or snipishly does not make ignoring the more reasonable folks A good customer relations policy; fortunately some Turbine folks seem to agree
    Yes, Kudos to the staff that remains willing to engage the players, and community knowing the risks of doing so can turn even the most benign response into a flame war.

  6. #86
    Community Member visibleman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrkGrismer View Post
    Unfortunately this means no more ghost-touch of disruption...
    Firstly, im not impressed with the lack of variety on the loot tables atm.

    But you can still get 'Ghost Touch' by wearing a 'Ghostly' item or a Dream Visor. I haven't carried a Ghost Touch Weapon since these were added.

    And you can still craft Greater Bane stuff in the Cannith machines. At least for now...
    Argonessen: Breyard, Kayuss, Breymer, Vilar, Zhanmadao
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  7. #87
    Community Member Ungood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feather_of_Sun View Post
    Actually, Ghost Touch was combined with Undead Bane.
    It's called Ghostbane now. It gives Ghost Touch plus Bane damage versus Undead.

    So far we're seeing encouraging results. The changes made are making it easier for characters at all levels of play to find suitable weapons for the challenges they encounter.

    Undead were one of the sore spots that had the potential to turn new and low level players off from DDO, so we're happy we were able to introduce a better tool to help overcome that challenge.
    Thank you for the response, You know, this is a good point.

    I would like to suggest that while you are working on this, you might want to make sure that these kinds of weapons get put into the hands of players and have a "Undead beater" be given out as a quest reward for Early harbor quest, this sets them up at the start. Like have Arachnophobia give a list of +1 Ghostbane I weapons as opposed to the 50 gold he gives now.

    That would be a good way to start players off towards knowing what to look for, and putting that kind of stuff in their hands at early levels.

    Have a great weekend.

  8. #88
    Community Member Arianka's Avatar
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    Feather_of_Cordovan

    heh

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ungood View Post
    Well that snowball happened because I mentioned it, and he quoted me and responded to that.
    Which is unfortunate because it shifted the focus from the large array of missing effects to a single one, and touting it's success as an example of why the system as a whole is good. I'm personally not opposed to the new loot, I just take issue with cutting down the forest to plant a few flowers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ungood View Post
    Personally I am rather stunned that people would want separate inferior effects that would reduce the DPS and functionally of a weapon, the Ghostbane effect is better in every way then having them separate was, it combines two effects, and shows how this can be done in a scaling manner. I would like to hope that this effect sets the stage for the future of dual ability effects, like Lacerating, etc, when they make their return.
    Agreed, Ghostbane is superior to Undead Bane. However where you say "when they make their return" I say if they make a return. Notice Feather said "some" will return, citing specifically effects like Bodyfeeder & stat damagers, making no mention of clickies, combo effects etc...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ungood View Post
    No, I at the fact that we were told in the patch notes that some effects were going to go away to be worked on, because there is going to be a whole new system put in, and now we are asking "what happened? Some of the effects went away"
    Saying "some" of the effects went away is like saying "some" of the iceberg is under water; in both cases "some" turns out to be "most." This is the crux of the issue that originated this thread, one which was largely sidestepped by both Feather & Cordovans replys. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad they showed up, I was just (futilely?) hoping for something direct like "a list of the removed affixes can be found here." Instead we're told that all is as it should be, but if we feel something is missing we should bug report it, and that some things will return in the future. That is all too vague to be informative or helpful.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ungood View Post
    ...and when we get a response, some people take that as an invite to just openly vent their feelings on the game overall no matter how off topic doing so may be.
    What's your point? People do this regardless of weather a dev/rep posts anything or not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ungood View Post
    Yes, Kudos to the staff that remains willing to engage the players, and community knowing the risks of doing so can turn even the most benign response into a flame war.
    Which the dev/reps seem quite adept at sifting through to engage in productive cconversation with the rest of us - when they're willing to.
    Now excuse me while I wander off to arm myself with Grilled Cheese Sandwiches and hunker down behind my Armored Beer Refrigerator, while I have the UFO's take control of the Congresional Wives with the help of the International Cocaine Smugglers and the Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow

  10. #90
    Community Member Postumus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PermaBanned View Post

    Agreed, Ghostbane is superior to Undead Bane. However where you say "when they make their return" I say if they make a return. Notice Feather said "some" will return, citing specifically effects like Bodyfeeder & stat damagers, making no mention of clickies, combo effects etc...
    I don't know what you mean when you say no clickies are dropping. Pulled a rage clicky earlier this morning and some other worthless clicky (poison? IDK) last night.

  11. #91
    Community Member PermaBanned's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Postumus View Post
    I don't know what you mean when you say no clickies are dropping. Pulled a rage clicky earlier this morning and some other worthless clicky (poison? IDK) last night.
    I'm very glad to hear this! I honestly have not seen a single clicky drop for me or anyone partied with me since the update, and everyone I've talked to has said the same - you're honestly the first one to say otherwise that I've encountered...

    I'm curious, was it in an end reward? I've noticed that some quests (3BC in particular) still deliver some older looking loot as end rewards.
    Now excuse me while I wander off to arm myself with Grilled Cheese Sandwiches and hunker down behind my Armored Beer Refrigerator, while I have the UFO's take control of the Congresional Wives with the help of the International Cocaine Smugglers and the Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow

  12. #92
    Community Member Ungood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PermaBanned View Post
    What's your point? People do this regardless of weather a dev/rep posts anything or not.
    You know, irony is that I, like many on this forum, do have issues with some of the new loot he designed, however my issues of contention mainly focusing on how he made it so that loot-gen invalidated raid/named gear. I admit, that irked me, as gear was and still remains a large part of the game to me. So don't approach me like I am some kind of fan-boi.

    However.. Ghostbane is one of the well done things as far as loot gen goes.

    I mean it, in my mind it was an example of how "new loot" could be done well, it combines 2 very common to acquire existing loot-gen abilities, and mixes them together in a "makes sense" way, much in the same way Lacerating did with slicing and bleed, which was and still is a very good idea.

    When FoS robbed abilities that were at one time restricted to named loot only and then started to slap as many of them on loot gen as he possibly could, that set a bitter stage for his introduction into Loot design, I would like to believe he learned from that, and I sincerely hope that he keeps all his future decisions regarding Loot-gen in line to how he approached the creation of Ghostbane.

    There was a problem, and he focused on finding a way to solve it without eliminating or lessening the value of named/raid items in the process.

    Well Done.

    Which the dev/reps seem quite adept at sifting through to engage in productive cconversation with the rest of us - when they're willing to.
    The fact that they know better then to respond to hot button posters and flame-bait posts, is not a sign that those kinds of post don't bother them, or annoy them. I mean really, would you want to try to have a discussion with someone while other people randomly show up and throw insults at you?
    Last edited by Ungood; 09-01-2013 at 08:29 AM.

  13. #93
    Community Member PermaBanned's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ungood View Post
    You know, irony is that I, like many on this forum, do have issues with some of the new loot he designed,
    That's fine. The issue I put forth from the get-go however was regarding what we lost.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ungood View Post
    ...however my issues of contention mainly focusing on how he made it so that loot-gen invalidated raid/named gear. [SIZE=2]I admit, that irked me, as gear was and still remains a large part of the game to me.
    Yah, they're 2/2 now on expansion loot invalidating much of what came before. It's still irrelevant to the premise of the OP regarding what no longer seems to be in the loot tables.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ungood View Post
    So don't [/SIZE]approach[SIZE=2] me like I am some kind of fan-boi.[/SIZE]
    Didn't know I was?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ungood View Post
    However.. Ghostbane[SIZE=2] is one of the well done things as far as loot gen goes.

    I mean it, in my mind it was an example of how "new loot" could be done well, it combines 2 very common to [/SIZE]acquire existing[SIZE=2] loot-gen abilities, and mixes them together in a "makes sense" way, much in the same way Lacerating did with slicing and bleed, which was and still is a very good idea.

    When FoS robbed abilities that were at one time restricted to named loot only and then started to slap as many of them on loot gen as he possibly could, that set a bitter stage for his introduction into Loot design, I would like to believe he learned from that, and [/SIZE][SIZE=2]I sincerely hope that he keeps all his future decisions regarding Loot-gen in line to how he approached the creation of Ghostbane.
    [/SIZE]
    There was a problem, and he focused on finding a way to solve it without eliminating or lessening the value of named/raid items in the process.

    Well Done.
    Yah, yah... Ghostbane's great, but not as a trade off for what all we've lost from the loot tables. Speaking of Lacerating, when's the last time you saw one drop? I'm guessing it was pre-update...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ungood View Post
    The fact that they know better then to respond to hot button posters and flame-bait posts, is not a sign that those kinds of post don't bother them, or annoy them. I mean really, would you want to try to have a discussion with someone while other people randomly show up and throw insults at you?
    Of course it's irritating or annoying to at least some if not all of 'em. As for me, I figure it's just part of covnersing on a game forum.
    Now excuse me while I wander off to arm myself with Grilled Cheese Sandwiches and hunker down behind my Armored Beer Refrigerator, while I have the UFO's take control of the Congresional Wives with the help of the International Cocaine Smugglers and the Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow

  14. #94
    Community Member Ungood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PermaBanned View Post
    Yah, yah... Ghostbane's great, but not as a trade off for what all we've lost from the loot tables. Speaking of Lacerating, when's the last time you saw one drop? I'm guessing it was pre-update...
    It's not a trade off, they have said that in the Patch Notes and on the forums in other places that this was a move to change the way loot scaled with leveling, what we have is the introductory part of that. Now I can't speak for anyone at Turbine, but it's pretty simple and straightforward that they are working on putting the other things back in the same manner.

    It made sense that Lacerating is not in right now, neither is slicing or bleed, because they are most likely working on how to tier them up form A- Z or some such, and to do that for all the previous effects takes time.

    This was nothing more then a pre-view of what is to come with loot. So relax and focus on how what we have works as opposed to pinning away for what had not finished it transition yet.

    If some abilities don't make the transition, then that is, what it is.
    Last edited by Ungood; 09-01-2013 at 08:32 AM.

  15. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by PermaBanned View Post
    Speaking of Lacerating, when's the last time you saw one drop? I'm guessing it was pre-update...
    Lacerating is gone....and so is most everything that was unique - convalescent, obscenity, mangling, desert sands, omniscience, annihilating, erosive, nights grasp, pandemonium, riptide, searing, scintillating, wintry, supreme good, auroral, the sun, the suns fury, hemorrhaging, blazing, boreal, caustic, coruscating, cosmic, impellent, tempestuous, wailing, a thousand suns, heavenly wrath, phlebotomizing, etc.

  16. #96
    Community Member Postumus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ungood View Post

    It made sense that Lacerating is not in right now, neither is slicing or bleed, because they are most likely working on how to tier them up form A- Z or some such, and to do that for all the previous effects takes time.

    This was nothing more then a pre-view of what is to come with loot. So relax and focus on how what we have works as opposed to pinning away for what had not finished it transition yet.

    If some abilities don't make the transition, then that is, what it is.

    You are probably right about that. One thing I do not like about the new loot is the descriptions. Acid III or Cold II just doesn't sound as fun or neat as 'icy burst' or 'desert sands' or 'of the tyrant!'

    I know some folks here care more about the effect than the look or description, but the fantasy element is still a part of the fun of this game for me and changing everything to generic 'cold I, cold II, cold III" is pretty blah.

  17. #97
    Community Member Postumus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mystera View Post
    Lacerating is gone....and so is most everything that was unique - convalescent, obscenity, mangling, desert sands, omniscience, annihilating, erosive, nights grasp, pandemonium, riptide, searing, scintillating, wintry, supreme good, auroral, the sun, the suns fury, hemorrhaging, blazing, boreal, caustic, coruscating, cosmic, impellent, tempestuous, wailing, a thousand suns, heavenly wrath, phlebotomizing, etc.

    All of those descriptors sound so much cooler than 'acid III, flaming IV, boring VI, blah II...'

  18. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by oradafu View Post
    I thought the same thing, but several people have pointed out that's changed with this update.

    Meanwhile, the ability to get metal-based Quarterstaves hasn't been fixed. I don't know if they nerfed the chances of them dropping as chain end rewards, but I know for a fact that they have NEVER dropped as an Epic end reward. So it appears that players still can't Cannith craft an Epic metal-based quarterstaff in the game...

    Edit: No sooner than I posted this, I pulled a Silver Quarterstaff from Deleras. So they didn't mess up the Heroic End Rewards tables by removing metal-based quarterstaves. But they still are a rare drop... And I still stand by my statement that they have never dropped as an Epic end reward.
    Actually, they can. As AML 20 weapon blanks went away with the expansion. Any weapon crafted with +6-+10 enchantment value will be paragon (1.5[w]) and any with +11 or higher will be epic (2[w]).

  19. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feather_of_Sun View Post

    Some other missing effects are only gone temporarily, such as Bodyfeeder or ability score damage on hit.
    They will be re-introduced once higher-level versions are created so that you can continue finding better versions of them as you level.
    More weapons, same storage. Anyone else see a problem?

  20. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ungood View Post
    I mean it, in my mind it was an example of how "new loot" could be done well, it combines 2 very common to acquire existing loot-gen abilities, and mixes them together in a "makes sense" way, much in the same way Lacerating did with slicing and bleed, which was and still is a very good idea.
    Two predictions on what we will see if "lacerating" returns.

    1)It will be renamed bleed III and have a +3 value.

    2)It will be a prefix, like most other damage effects.

    That would remove pretty much everything that made it good.

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