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  1. #61
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    Count me in as not liking this new thing, uber generic loot, you guys seem to have zero direction, a year ago we get composed affixes (Thousands suns, Erosive, Meteoric, Oceanic, wintry, Debilitiating etc. etc.) and a year later that work is obviated by making all loot look like someone who intensely and devotedly loves spreadsheets re-designed it.

    You guys are never going to get bad game players and non-gamers to stick with DDO... unless you redesign the game to have point and click movement and fire/alt fire simplicity... That game already exists, and it has a much bigger advertizing budget, and trumps DDO with cartoon graphics so that non gamers wont feel nerdy because it looks realistic and serious. You'll never be WoW... stop trying.

    Stop pandering to a player base that can not play DDO. The game is dying while you are distracted by this false promise of "casuals".

    You're losing players, not because the game is hard or complicated, but because repeating the same identical unchanging content over and over is BORING, it's not because your game is too hard for farmville fans to figure out.

    You're also losing players because the past 6 months people spent building a character, running the same identical raids over and over trying to get cool stuff; was just made largely pointless by multiple dramatic changes at the same time. Changes have to happen in MMO's or they stagnate, but changes too quickly just make everyone wonder if they wasted their play time.

    And you're losing players because you pander to non-gamers and the new systems turn off existing players. You've been repeating this same design mistake since you started putting in inaccurate number ranges instead of dice trying to dumb down everything. Every step away from D&D just loses you more gamers and D&D fans, while not returning a significant number of new casuals. You're like a band that changes its sound to gain more commerical success, doesn't manage to make a hit song, and loses most of its old fanbase. You're like the moral of the greedy person who drops what they have in one hand to take a wild grab at a bigger pile, misses it and so loses both.

    Perversely at the same time you're pumping out "Ghostbane" because newbies can't figure out how to kill undead, you're adding massive new enhancements that stack up to 10 times but not more than 1 every 3 seconds, on a reverse vorpal that gets confirmed with another 1, with a cool down of 120 seconds, and stacks expire one every 2 seconds....

    Wait whats that you say? A stacking bonus that will never ever stack? Exactly? Yes exactly... You're adding complexity in one corner while making things feel dumbed down in another... Time for a Dev meeting guys, get the direction straight, figure out THE REAL reason DDO is losing so many players. Stop valuing exit surveys over common sense. Hard core gamers exist in numbers great enough to keep an MMO immensely profitable... Just look at Steam, or MOBA games. Market your game as the MMO for real gamers, show off the high skill ceiling, and make the combat more responsive and better animated. Improve the physics, weed out the lame abilities and replace with stream lined systems that make combat MORE FUN. Add procedural pathways/traps/mobs/secret door locations to lower the boredom factor. Add MORE raids like Shroud and Abbot, and VON and Twilight Forge (but with more than 4 peoples worth of stuff to do at the end)... FOT bores me to tears, CitW is a linear series of beatdowns.

    Accept your niche DDO, embrace it and stop trying to pander to a player base that will never ever stay with you... Like the nerdy guy who took up body building and started watching Twilight, and wearing designer clothes, but still didn't get the hot girl; You should turn back to the nerdy but cute girl that always liked you for who you were, even before you got (sortah) buff
    You guys filibustering a new mode have already succeeded in scaring the Dev's into not doing it the right way and re-scaling the existing settings, why in the world are you still filibustering? Drunk on your success? Schadenfreude? Spitefulness?

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Milikki View Post
    To the best I know, slashing weapons don't banish. Only piercing and bludgeon. Greensteel excepted ofc.
    I thought the same thing, but several people have pointed out that's changed with this update.

    Meanwhile, the ability to get metal-based Quarterstaves hasn't been fixed. I don't know if they nerfed the chances of them dropping as chain end rewards, but I know for a fact that they have NEVER dropped as an Epic end reward. So it appears that players still can't Cannith craft an Epic metal-based quarterstaff in the game...

    Edit: No sooner than I posted this, I pulled a Silver Quarterstaff from Deleras. So they didn't mess up the Heroic End Rewards tables by removing metal-based quarterstaves. But they still are a rare drop... And I still stand by my statement that they have never dropped as an Epic end reward.
    Last edited by oradafu; 08-30-2013 at 04:23 PM.

  3. #63
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    I loudly applaud the effort to add additional options to the loot tables. Some of the new mutations are excellent.

    Now if I can only get to grips with why we've had to remove so many things in the process, I'm sure I'll be able to applaud that too.

    Like many things, a developer or producer telling us where these things are heading could prevent a massive amount of dissatisfaction with the changes.

    If you're plan is to announce a whole series of clickie effects and reintroducing the lost effects introduced with U14 then now would be a good time to tell us.

  4. #64
    Community Member Havok.cry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Retrodark View Post
    But, is that only on weapons, or is it on non-weapon items too?
    I have not seen it on non-weapons.
    Matt Walsh:
    But Truth is eternal, so it can never be old or new. It never ‘was’ or ‘will be.’ It just ‘is.’ It always ‘is.’

  5. #65
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IronClan View Post
    Count me in as not liking this new thing, uber generic loot, you guys seem to have zero direction, a year ago we get composed affixes (Thousands suns, Erosive, Meteoric, Oceanic, wintry, Debilitiating etc. etc.) and a year later that work is obviated by making all loot look like someone who intensely and devotedly loves spreadsheets re-designed it.

    You guys are never going to get bad game players and non-gamers to stick with DDO... unless you redesign the game to have point and click movement and fire/alt fire simplicity... That game already exists, and it has a much bigger advertizing budget, and trumps DDO with cartoon graphics so that non gamers wont feel nerdy because it looks realistic and serious. You'll never be WoW... stop trying.

    Stop pandering to a player base that can not play DDO. The game is dying while you are distracted by this false promise of "casuals".

    You're losing players, not because the game is hard or complicated, but because repeating the same identical unchanging content over and over is BORING, it's not because your game is too hard for farmville fans to figure out.

    You're also losing players because the past 6 months people spent building a character, running the same identical raids over and over trying to get cool stuff; was just made largely pointless by multiple dramatic changes at the same time. Changes have to happen in MMO's or they stagnate, but changes too quickly just make everyone wonder if they wasted their play time.

    And you're losing players because you pander to non-gamers and the new systems turn off existing players. You've been repeating this same design mistake since you started putting in inaccurate number ranges instead of dice trying to dumb down everything. Every step away from D&D just loses you more gamers and D&D fans, while not returning a significant number of new casuals. You're like a band that changes its sound to gain more commerical success, doesn't manage to make a hit song, and loses most of its old fanbase. You're like the moral of the greedy person who drops what they have in one hand to take a wild grab at a bigger pile, misses it and so loses both.

    Perversely at the same time you're pumping out "Ghostbane" because newbies can't figure out how to kill undead, you're adding massive new enhancements that stack up to 10 times but not more than 1 every 3 seconds, on a reverse vorpal that gets confirmed with another 1, with a cool down of 120 seconds, and stacks expire one every 2 seconds....

    Wait whats that you say? A stacking bonus that will never ever stack? Exactly? Yes exactly... You're adding complexity in one corner while making things feel dumbed down in another... Time for a Dev meeting guys, get the direction straight, figure out THE REAL reason DDO is losing so many players. Stop valuing exit surveys over common sense. Hard core gamers exist in numbers great enough to keep an MMO immensely profitable... Just look at Steam, or MOBA games. Market your game as the MMO for real gamers, show off the high skill ceiling, and make the combat more responsive and better animated. Improve the physics, weed out the lame abilities and replace with stream lined systems that make combat MORE FUN. Add procedural pathways/traps/mobs/secret door locations to lower the boredom factor. Add MORE raids like Shroud and Abbot, and VON and Twilight Forge (but with more than 4 peoples worth of stuff to do at the end)... FOT bores me to tears, CitW is a linear series of beatdowns.

    Accept your niche DDO, embrace it and stop trying to pander to a player base that will never ever stay with you... Like the nerdy guy who took up body building and started watching Twilight, and wearing designer clothes, but still didn't get the hot girl; You should turn back to the nerdy but cute girl that always liked you for who you were, even before you got (sortah) buff
    but what do we know. this is a post of a hard truth and needs to be read by the guy that makes the final decision on changes in DDO than take some time to think about it for awhile.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by oradafu View Post
    I thought the same thing, but several people have pointed out that's changed with this update.

    Meanwhile, the ability to get metal-based Quarterstaves hasn't been fixed. I don't know if they nerfed the chances of them dropping as chain end rewards, but I know for a fact that they have NEVER dropped as an Epic end reward. So it appears that players still can't Cannith craft an Epic metal-based quarterstaff in the game...

    Edit: No sooner than I posted this, I pulled a Silver Quarterstaff from Deleras. So they didn't mess up the Heroic End Rewards tables by removing metal-based quarterstaves. But they still are a rare drop... And I still stand by my statement that they have never dropped as an Epic end reward.
    Yeah and when I got to the point where my post hit the thread I did a face palm. I don't think there is a banishing green steel , I was thinking disruption when I typed that. Also check your loot carefully. I pulled some +1 holy wraps that had adamantine hidden in its description.

  7. #67
    Community Member lyrecono's Avatar
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    Quoted for truth, reputation added, well spoken!


    Quote Originally Posted by IronClan View Post
    Count me in as not liking this new thing, uber generic loot, you guys seem to have zero direction, a year ago we get composed affixes (Thousands suns, Erosive, Meteoric, Oceanic, wintry, Debilitiating etc. etc.) and a year later that work is obviated by making all loot look like someone who intensely and devotedly loves spreadsheets re-designed it.

    You guys are never going to get bad game players and non-gamers to stick with DDO... unless you redesign the game to have point and click movement and fire/alt fire simplicity... That game already exists, and it has a much bigger advertizing budget, and trumps DDO with cartoon graphics so that non gamers wont feel nerdy because it looks realistic and serious. You'll never be WoW... stop trying.

    Stop pandering to a player base that can not play DDO. The game is dying while you are distracted by this false promise of "casuals".

    You're losing players, not because the game is hard or complicated, but because repeating the same identical unchanging content over and over is BORING, it's not because your game is too hard for farmville fans to figure out.

    You're also losing players because the past 6 months people spent building a character, running the same identical raids over and over trying to get cool stuff; was just made largely pointless by multiple dramatic changes at the same time. Changes have to happen in MMO's or they stagnate, but changes too quickly just make everyone wonder if they wasted their play time.

    And you're losing players because you pander to non-gamers and the new systems turn off existing players. You've been repeating this same design mistake since you started putting in inaccurate number ranges instead of dice trying to dumb down everything. Every step away from D&D just loses you more gamers and D&D fans, while not returning a significant number of new casuals. You're like a band that changes its sound to gain more commerical success, doesn't manage to make a hit song, and loses most of its old fanbase. You're like the moral of the greedy person who drops what they have in one hand to take a wild grab at a bigger pile, misses it and so loses both.

    Perversely at the same time you're pumping out "Ghostbane" because newbies can't figure out how to kill undead, you're adding massive new enhancements that stack up to 10 times but not more than 1 every 3 seconds, on a reverse vorpal that gets confirmed with another 1, with a cool down of 120 seconds, and stacks expire one every 2 seconds....

    Wait whats that you say? A stacking bonus that will never ever stack? Exactly? Yes exactly... You're adding complexity in one corner while making things feel dumbed down in another... Time for a Dev meeting guys, get the direction straight, figure out THE REAL reason DDO is losing so many players. Stop valuing exit surveys over common sense. Hard core gamers exist in numbers great enough to keep an MMO immensely profitable... Just look at Steam, or MOBA games. Market your game as the MMO for real gamers, show off the high skill ceiling, and make the combat more responsive and better animated. Improve the physics, weed out the lame abilities and replace with stream lined systems that make combat MORE FUN. Add procedural pathways/traps/mobs/secret door locations to lower the boredom factor. Add MORE raids like Shroud and Abbot, and VON and Twilight Forge (but with more than 4 peoples worth of stuff to do at the end)... FOT bores me to tears, CitW is a linear series of beatdowns.

    Accept your niche DDO, embrace it and stop trying to pander to a player base that will never ever stay with you... Like the nerdy guy who took up body building and started watching Twilight, and wearing designer clothes, but still didn't get the hot girl; You should turn back to the nerdy but cute girl that always liked you for who you were, even before you got (sortah) buff

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Milikki View Post
    Yeah and when I got to the point where my post hit the thread I did a face palm. I don't think there is a banishing green steel , I was thinking disruption when I typed that. Also check your loot carefully. I pulled some +1 holy wraps that had adamantine hidden in its description.
    Nod. Quarterstaves metal-based properties are hidden like that. And they are quite rare drops for end reward chains only. And, they have never appeared in the Epic chain end rewards. I've bugged it, asked about it and complaint about the lack of epic metal-based quarterstaves dropping since MOTU (when epic end chain loot started dropping)... No changes or replies.

  9. #69
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    Insightful and exceptional stat bonus
    exceptional fort
    parrying/riposte/whatever on nonweapons

    All seem absent as well
    Khyber Server -- New Aundair

  10. #70
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    On weapons, the other interesting prefixes and suffixes like "of lightning" or "annihilating", etc. seem missing from the tables.
    Khyber Server -- New Aundair

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by ViolentEnd View Post
    Insightful and exceptional stat bonus
    exceptional fort
    parrying/riposte/whatever on nonweapons

    All seem absent as well
    Exceptional stat bonuses became Insight bonuses (except for +1) a long, long time ago.

    I think Exceptional Fort was replaced with the horrible decision to make Fort 10% every couple of levels that don't stack.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by oradafu View Post
    Exceptional stat bonuses became Insight bonuses (except for +1) a long, long time ago.
    I know this, however they seem to be entirely missing from the loot tables now. I would be very disappointed to learn that these and exceptional fort have been removed.
    Khyber Server -- New Aundair

  13. #73
    Community Member PpalP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IronClan View Post
    ...
    Accept your niche DDO, embrace it and stop trying to pander to a player base that will never ever stay with you... Like the nerdy guy who took up body building and started watching Twilight, and wearing designer clothes, but still didn't get the hot girl; You should turn back to the nerdy but cute girl that always liked you for who you were, even before you got (sortah) buff
    Fully agree! all the post, not only the quoted part, but don't like repeated wall of text ; )

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by IronClan View Post
    You'll never be WoW... stop trying.
    1000 times ^this.^ I sincerely hope your efforts to attract a simplistic new audience at the expense of your existing complexity & diversity loving one pan out. It's a shame to see the parts of this game I enjoy being stripped away; it would be an even bigger shame to see it was for nothing.
    Now excuse me while I wander off to arm myself with Grilled Cheese Sandwiches and hunker down behind my Armored Beer Refrigerator, while I have the UFO's take control of the Congresional Wives with the help of the International Cocaine Smugglers and the Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feather_of_Sun View Post
    Actually, Ghost Touch was combined with Undead Bane.
    It's called Ghostbane now. It gives Ghost Touch plus Bane damage versus Undead.

    So far we're seeing encouraging results. The changes made are making it easier for characters at all levels of play to find suitable weapons for the challenges they encounter.

    Undead were one of the sore spots that had the potential to turn new and low level players off from DDO, so we're happy we were able to introduce a better tool to help overcome that challenge.

    Some other missing effects are only gone temporarily, such as Bodyfeeder or ability score damage on hit.
    They will be re-introduced once higher-level versions are created so that you can continue finding better versions of them as you level.
    Can I at least suggest that you retool the RNG to generate suitable mutations for given quest-types? At least then there might be the illusion of rewarding prep-work by running lower level versions of undead quests to handle higher ones, to use your example, instead of the totally divorced-from-content mess the present system is left in.

    Matter of fact, I'll drop my usual preference for hinting at where to look and letting ya'll figure out your own solutions and give something concrete in terms of a template:

    5% Droprate for a given undead-related mutation in a given undead-heavy quest chest. (5% of that for a second)
    10% on a non-boss optional, with 5% for an aug.
    15% on an end-boss or boss-equivalent optional, 10% for an aug.

    Fact is, I'm still madly in love with the idea of the game, but the reality has been drifting further from the premise with every update since MoTU, and this type of change has not helped one iota.
    Last edited by Scraap; 08-30-2013 at 07:25 PM.

  16. #76
    Community Member Ryiah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PermaBanned View Post
    This makes proper bug reporting quite difficult.
    Why should we be expected to make proper bug reports? Especially when they not only cannot keep us updated with what has changed and cannot properly implement those changes. Personally I would bug report everything and allow them to sort out the duplicates themselves. They set themselves up for this mess and they are the ones who are going to have to deal with it. Not us.
    Ryiah | Raeyah | Reikara
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  17. #77
    Community Member Ungood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qaliya View Post
    Yes, it would make a real difference. To me and others.

    Even the threads where someone jumps in and says "read by a dev" are better than the ones that twist in silence.


    See, see what happens when he responded? People took it as an invite to jump all over the guy.

    I mean really, of all things too.. to go after Ghostbane?

    It is a far superior effect then Undead bane and Ghost touch were separate, and they synergy well into game because It's bane and touch in one neat package. At IV or more, it's just as good as disruption, which means you can get a better prefix on your weapon then you could before, it lessens the "golf bag" of tools needs to deal with stuff, and yet people are upset about this.

    I mean for one quest arc, IQ/DD, people are fussing over this? Really? Like seriously, when I did IQ/DD everyone I ran with continued to use their Min II or Lit II (or whatever boss beater they had for outsiders, or just their top of the line generic skull buster) and just used equipped spectral gloves, or some other gear slot item to bypass the incorp, because truth is, we all knew that any other method was just going to end up being sub-par DPS.

    Look, anyone can tell that I will voice what I feel, and I will say where mistakes are when I feel they have been made, but this was not something to bedraggle the guy over, really.

    Anyway, to the Staff at Turbine, I hope you all are having a great week end.

    Happy Labor Day Weekend Everyone.

  18. #78

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    Quote Originally Posted by DDOTalk71 View Post
    Snik Snak goes the Vorpal....Hand?.....
    More like: “I’m gonna knock your block off!”
    Things that if Turbine went all EXTREME PREJUDICE™ on, would actually make the game fun again.:
    • Giving us the racial PrE’s we were promised, before rolling out DDOStore™ Enhancement Trees.
    • Fixing physical defense for Rangers and Rogues. It’s ridiculous that you’re better off wearing Heavy Armor and ignoring your innate feats on these classes.
    • Cannith Crafting.
    • Update the named loot to put them on the same system.
    • Fixing the Cannith Challenges so that they can be 6 starred without incredible luck or store bought items.
    • Fixing all challenges to give us decent XP and ingredient returns for the unreasonable time we have to spend in most of them.

  19. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ungood View Post


    See, see what happens when he responded? People took it as an invite to jump all over the guy.

    I mean really, of all things too.. to go after Ghostbane?
    First, since we were asking about all the missing properties & clickies, and Feathers response was centered around the success of Ghostbane, it makes sense that's what people would respond to.
    Second, just because some idjits will respond poorly or snipishly does not make ignoring the more reasonable folks A good customer relations policy; fortunately some Turbine folks seem to agree
    Lastly, why act like people only responded about Ghostbane? The rest of us still wonder about all the missing stuff that seems to fall under the release notes broad umbrella of "some effects have been removed" where "some" seems to include: all clickies, all named combo effects (except Ghostbane and Thaumaturgy), and many other properties like convalescent. Cordovan kindly suggested we bug report anything we think should be dropping but isn't, however we have nothing official to go by as far as what should or should not be dropping to base these bug reports on. If you have to roll your eyes, roll 'em at that.
    Now excuse me while I wander off to arm myself with Grilled Cheese Sandwiches and hunker down behind my Armored Beer Refrigerator, while I have the UFO's take control of the Congresional Wives with the help of the International Cocaine Smugglers and the Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow

  20. #80
    The Hatchery SisAmethyst's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IronClan View Post
    Count me in as not liking this new thing, uber generic loot, you guys seem to have zero direction, a year ago we get composed affixes (Thousands suns, Erosive, Meteoric, Oceanic, wintry, Debilitiating etc. etc.) and a year later that work is obviated by making all loot look like someone who intensely and devotedly loves spreadsheets re-designed it.

    You guys are never going to get bad game players and non-gamers to stick with DDO... unless you redesign the game to have point and click movement and fire/alt fire simplicity... That game already exists, and it has a much bigger advertizing budget, and trumps DDO with cartoon graphics so that non gamers wont feel nerdy because it looks realistic and serious. You'll never be WoW... stop trying.

    ...

    Accept your niche DDO, embrace it and stop trying to pander to a player base that will never ever stay with you... Like the nerdy guy who took up body building and started watching Twilight, and wearing designer clothes, but still didn't get the hot girl; You should turn back to the nerdy but cute girl that always liked you for who you were, even before you got (sortah) buff
    So sad but true... well spoken /+1
    * We have collectable bags, hell even hireling folders, but can I have that 6-pack for my potions please?
    * Having already a past life on the dieng EU servers, I rerolled here and started from scratch as I like the game and the community, so lets see what awaits me here

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