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  1. #1
    Brand / Commerce Manager Tolero's Avatar
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    Exclamation Raid Completion Counters

    Update: As of Update 19 Patch 2, raid completion counters have returned to their original state, and now once again track Heroic and Epic completions as one. The /quest completions command now reflects this change.

    We have investigated the raid and quest completion counts and have identified the following regarding the counts:

    - The number of heroic completion and epic completions for the Caught in the Web raid are both incorrectly showing as completions from Fall of Truth. We will address this error in an upcoming patch.
    - Completions of Epic difficulty that occurred prior to Menace of the Underdark (Update 14) cannot be distinguished from heroic and are treated as heroic completions. You are most likely to experience this if you had played "epic" difficulty from the original Epic system back before the quest entrance UI was split into Epic/Heroic tabs, and Epic Character levels were introduced (suspects include: Vault of Night, Demon Queen, Chronoscope). Epic runs that occurred between MOTU and Shadowfell should properly show in the Epic side of the count. This will not be corrected.
    - Completions of Epic difficulty non-raid quests that occurred prior to Update 19 Patch 1 are listed as heroic in the completion counts (e.g. Phiarlan Carnival). Completions after U19 Patch 1 will appear in the correct column. This will not be corrected.

    We apologize for the confusion this causes to our raiders.
    Last edited by Tolero; 09-23-2013 at 11:14 AM.

  2. #2
    Community Member Havok.cry's Avatar
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    This is another reason why you guys should make us aware of, and let us test things for you (you as in turbine, not you specifically Tolero ), before you send them live.
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  3. #3
    Hatchery Hero BOgre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tolero View Post
    We are currently investigating anomalies in raid completion counts. We will provide more information as soon as it is available. Thanks for your patience!
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    This is a tech change at this point, but offering Heroic loot for heroic 20th completion lists and epic loot for Epic 20th completion lists is one of the reasons this change was made. Whether that becomes something offered in older raids, or is something that comes with future raids, will ultimately depend on various developmental decisions.
    This is an all time 1st for Turbine. They implement a change in preparation for a feature that may or may not ever see the light of day, and in doing so give birth to a new bug... I mean, usually you guys release new bugs WITH new features, this time you've decided to skip the feature altogether and just release the bug on its own? Genius!

    Last edited by BOgre; 08-29-2013 at 08:35 PM.

  4. #4
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    Default Skill tomes instead of ability tomes...?

    Just did my 20ths for Caught in the Web and Fall of Truth on 2 different toons after seeing that the 20th completions were fixed and did get named loot. However, recieved skill tome upgrades (+3-4) instead of stat tomes on most and on one I received a +3 to +4 stat tome upgrade when it should have been a pure +4 or a +4 to +5 upgrade.... Very disappointed. Please will you let me know if this is an intentional change or yet another mishap. If this was intended, will you also explain... what the hell were you thinking? Thank you. :-)
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  5. #5
    Brand / Commerce Manager Tolero's Avatar
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    UPDATE: We have investigated the raid and quest completion counts and have identified the following regarding the counts:

    - The number of heroic completion and epic completions for the Caught in the Web raid are both incorrectly showing as completions from Fall of Truth. Patch was targetting the totals on it and Fall of Truth to correct it to the proper number. While Fall is up to date, Caught in the Web's numbers got clobbered by Fall of Truth (part of the reason you'll see a negative number in heroic). We will address this error in an upcoming patch.
    - Completions of Epic difficulty that occurred prior to Menace of the Underdark (Update 14) cannot be distinguished from heroic and are treated as heroic completions. You are most likely to experience this if you had played "epic" difficulty from the original Epic system back before the quest entrance UI was split into Epic/Heroic tabs, and Epic Character levels were introduced (suspects include: Vault of Night, Demon Queen, Chronoscope). Epic runs that occurred between MOTU and Shadowfell should properly show in the Epic side of the count. This will not be corrected as there is no way for us or the system to distinguish whether those pre-MOTU runs were Epic or not (back then everything in the back end was just marking off as the same thing in the data).
    - Completions of Epic difficulty non-raid quests that occurred prior to Update 19 Patch 1 are listed as heroic in the completion counts (e.g. Phiarlan Carnival). Completions after U19 Patch 1 will appear in the correct column. This will not be corrected. It has no impact on reward lists or loot, and is basically display/cosmetic in nature.

    We apologize for the confusion this causes to our raiders.

  6. #6
    The Hatchery danotmano1998's Avatar
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    And raid timers?
    Epic versus Heroic?

    Are they going to be split as well?
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  7. #7
    Hero
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    So people will be SOL on a bunch of completions because you wanted to introduce a system that, to us, may or may not be used in the future? And the ones your willing to fix will be fixed at a date TBD *String table error*.... So if we want our raids to count and be sure that they will count correctly we just wait. Seriously? Is Dr. Evil now calling the shots now? You realize that for the most part raiding in now dead until a date TBD..right?

    The decision making process your using now is seriously questionable.
    Last edited by Drwaz99; 08-30-2013 at 01:29 PM.

  8. #8
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    I spent a bunch of time defending Turbine about this patch yesterday, and this has even me scratching my head.

    With respect, was it really a great idea to try to roll out a new system as part of a patch, especially one that was hurried because of a holiday weekend?

  9. #9
    Community Member cave_diver's Avatar
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    Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Tolero View Post
    UPDATE: While Fall is up to date, Caught in the Web's numbers got clobbered by Fall of Truth (part of the reason you'll see a negative number in heroic). We will address this error in an upcoming patch.


    So I have a question, on one of my toons I was at 38 completions of CITW looking forward to #40 to get the final weapon I was looking for, post update I am now at 9 heroic/28 epic. I now run 3+ citw's and turbine fixes it in an upcoming patch will I be at 41+ completions and be borked out of my 40th?
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  10. #10
    Brand / Commerce Manager Tolero's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cave_diver View Post
    So I have a question, on one of my toons I was at 38 completions of CITW looking forward to #40 to get the final weapon I was looking for, post update I am now at 9 heroic/28 epic. I now run 3+ citw's and turbine fixes it in an upcoming patch will I be at 41+ completions and be borked out of my 40th?
    The GMs are working to help Caught in the Web runners who are in this predicament between now and when the patch is applied so that you get the list, and then when patch comes it goes to the right total number to avoid getting "skipped".

  11. #11
    Community Member Bilger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cave_diver View Post
    So I have a question, on one of my toons I was at 38 completions of CITW looking forward to #40 to get the final weapon I was looking for, post update I am now at 9 heroic/28 epic. I now run 3+ citw's and turbine fixes it in an upcoming patch will I be at 41+ completions and be borked out of my 40th?
    That's what I would like to know seriously wasn't explained well if counter says 14 and you know you where at 18 will you get your 20 in 2 runs or 6. Or if you do 6 thinking you have 14 and gets patched and you end up over 20 do you lose your 20th reward? Or could it be just counting the actual number and just displayed wrong?

    A better explanation would be appreciated highly and ty.
    Last edited by Bilger; 08-30-2013 at 03:37 PM.
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  12. #12
    Community Member darksol23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tolero View Post
    The GMs are working to help Caught in the Web runners who are in this predicament between now and when the patch is applied so that you get the list, and then when patch comes it goes to the right total number to avoid getting "skipped".
    So... For those of us who were close to a milestone run... Are we supposed to contact a GM before each run to ask what run we're on, and then ask them do "something special" if we're on the 20/40/60/x? If so, that's going to become very tedious over a long weekend. Or are they going automatically make any completions you run "not count" with the next patch without having to contact a GM? More detailed instructions please.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tolero View Post
    UPDATE
    We apologize for the confusion this causes to our raiders.
    No need to sugar coat it, you've gone way beyond the realm of "confusion" and into the "negatively affecting" zone.
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  13. #13
    Brand / Commerce Manager Tolero's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by darksol23 View Post
    So... For those of us who were close to a milestone run... Are we supposed to contact a GM before each run to ask what run we're on, and then ask them do "something special" if we're on the 20/40/60/x? If so, that's going to become very tedious over a long weekend. Or are they going automatically make any completions you run "not count" with the next patch without having to contact a GM? More detailed instructions please.
    In the case of Caught in the Web, you can actually determine how close you are to a milestone run without needing to consult a GM by using the / command still. Because Fall of Truth completions clobbered both fields, the difference between the two shows what Caught in the Web run you're on. Example: If it's showing CitW heroic -5 / epic 24, you're at 19 epic.

  14. #14
    Community Member Retrodark's Avatar
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    Default To avoid it being an issue for anyone

    Quote Originally Posted by Tolero View Post
    The GMs are working to help Caught in the Web runners who are in this predicament between now and when the patch is applied so that you get the list, and then when patch comes it goes to the right total number to avoid getting "skipped".
    I would suggest that the very next time anyone completes CITW after the patch is put out that they get the 20th end rewards. If this means they have run it less than 20 times, oh well, payment for the mistake made. Or, at least make it so that if you have 20+ runs, you get the end rewards, even if it is the 21st run.

  15. #15
    Community Member Kynestra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BOgre View Post
    this time you've decided to skip the feature altogether[/IMG]
    You're wrong. Offering Epic rewards for 20 Epic completions _IS_ a new feature. The mixup in completions from the new implementation is merely an unlisted Fringe Benefit. You should be thankful for the new fodder for a slew of up-and-coming forum complaints, you didn't have to pay for it.

    *Edit* The crazy pills are free, too.
    Last edited by Kynestra; 08-30-2013 at 02:43 PM.
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  16. #16
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    Default Don't think that middle statement is correct

    Quote Originally Posted by Tolero View Post
    UPDATE: - Completions of Epic difficulty that occurred prior to Menace of the Underdark (Update 14) cannot be distinguished from heroic and are treated as heroic completions. You are most likely to experience this if you had played "epic" difficulty from the original Epic system back before the quest entrance UI was split into Epic/Heroic tabs, and Epic Character levels were introduced (suspects include: Vault of Night, Demon Queen, Chronoscope). Epic runs that occurred between MOTU and Shadowfell should properly show in the Epic side of the count. This will not be corrected.
    If I am reading this correctly, it says that my count should be correct for any VON raids I've run since MOTU came out? If that's so, then I respectfully disagree. My count after the patch showed VON Heroic 9 / EPIC 1, but I have definitely run more than 1 epic VON this year, so well after MOTU came out (not sure when I ran the heroic completion/s)

  17. #17
    The Hatchery karl_k0ch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tolero View Post
    [COLOR="#FF0000"]Epic runs that occurred between MOTU and Shadowfell should properly show in the Epic side of the count. This will not be corrected.
    For at least two of my toons, the /quest completions lists a huge number of heroic completions of Vault of Night and Against the Demon Queen although I completed most of them between U14 and U19 on epic difficulty. Should I bug report this or will this be fixed in the upcoming patch?

    Edit: Ninja'd by someone who has the same problem.
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  18. #18
    Community Member Thar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tolero View Post
    UPDATE: We have investigated the raid and quest completion counts and have identified the following regarding the counts:

    - The number of heroic completion and epic completions for the Caught in the Web raid are both incorrectly showing as completions from Fall of Truth. Patch was targetting the totals on it and Fall of Truth to correct it to the proper number. While Fall is up to date, Caught in the Web's numbers got clobbered by Fall of Truth (part of the reason you'll see a negative number in heroic). We will address this error in an upcoming patch.
    - Completions of Epic difficulty that occurred prior to Menace of the Underdark (Update 14) cannot be distinguished from heroic and are treated as heroic completions. You are most likely to experience this if you had played "epic" difficulty from the original Epic system back before the quest entrance UI was split into Epic/Heroic tabs, and Epic Character levels were introduced (suspects include: Vault of Night, Demon Queen, Chronoscope). Epic runs that occurred between MOTU and Shadowfell should properly show in the Epic side of the count. This will not be corrected as there is no way for us or the system to distinguish whether those pre-MOTU runs were Epic or not (back then everything in the back end was just marking off as the same thing in the data).
    - Completions of Epic difficulty non-raid quests that occurred prior to Update 19 Patch 1 are listed as heroic in the completion counts (e.g. Phiarlan Carnival). Completions after U19 Patch 1 will appear in the correct column. This will not be corrected. It has no impact on reward lists or loot, and is basically display/cosmetic in nature.

    We apologize for the confusion this causes to our raiders.
    This is another example of stop messing with old code and only build new stuff. now people are annoyed that they would have to run X heroic quests to get the same end reward missing out on shards, xp, etc. Its hard enough to get a raid together for old raids now as it is, but to split the counters now makes people need heroric or epic. Can you all think about what impact changes have to the game prior to making a BIG change like this in the future? sigh...
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by WarReaver2010 View Post
    If I am reading this correctly, it says that my count should be correct for any VON raids I've run since MOTU came out? If that's so, then I respectfully disagree. My count after the patch showed VON Heroic 9 / EPIC 1, but I have definitely run more than 1 epic VON this year, so well after MOTU came out (not sure when I ran the heroic completion/s)
    This. My toon TRed after MoTU, yet it shows that I have 16 heroic and 1 epic VoN completion, and I can't recall the last Heroic VoN I ran this life (if at all). Same for ADQ: it shows me at 12 heroic completions and 0 epic (and I've never run Heroic ADQ this life). Something is definitely wrong, and my guess is that it's counting raid completions before Update 19.1 as heroic.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tolero View Post
    UPDATE: We have investigated the raid and quest completion counts and have identified the following regarding the counts:

    - Completions of Epic difficulty that occurred prior to Menace of the Underdark (Update 14) cannot be distinguished from heroic and are treated as heroic completions. You are most likely to experience this if you had played "epic" difficulty from the original Epic system back before the quest entrance UI was split into Epic/Heroic tabs, and Epic Character levels were introduced (suspects include: Vault of Night, Demon Queen, Chronoscope). Epic runs that occurred between MOTU and Shadowfell should properly show in the Epic side of the count. This will not be corrected.
    This is flat out WRONG, you need a better QA team. I have been TRing for the past 2.5 years, and didn't even play MOTU when it came out. I finally did my last TR at the beginning of this year and starting running raids with my current TR a few months ago. ALL my ADQ runs have been on EN/EH/EE yet my counter says the following:
    Against the Demon Queen : Heroic: 16 / Epic : 0
    All these runs were done in between the MOTU and Shadowfell packs on epic yet are reported as heroic, so your statement above is false. Checked with my brother last night who is in my same shoes, has been TRing until early this year and ran all the Epic DQ raids with me. His counter shows Heroic 19 / Epic 0, and he was waiting to run his 20th epic run until this 20th raid loot issue got fixed. He ran the raid last night for his 20th time on epic and got ZERO named items. To add insult to injury I ran EH CITW with him after that and he pulled the Twilight staff which wasn't even upgraded even though it was an EH run.

    Way to break something that wasn't broken, and way to misdiagnose the problem and offer no fix.

    EDIT ONE: same problem with VON which shows The Vault of Night : Heroic: 3 / Epic : 1. I started running that only in the last two months and I have never run it on heroic.

    EDIT TWO: your system is still borked, since I ran ADQ EH last night and it was counted as a heroic run.
    Last edited by Mystera; 08-30-2013 at 03:22 PM.

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