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  1. #21
    2014 DDO Players Council ishr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok.cry View Post
    This is another reason why you guys should make us aware of, and let us test things for you (you as in turbine, not you specifically Tolero ), before you send them live.
    totally agree with this. stop trying to sneak stuff in. transparency doesn't hurt anyone, unless you're not doing you're job.

  2. #22
    Community Member darksol23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tolero View Post
    In the case of Caught in the Web, you can actually determine how close you are to a milestone run without needing to consult a GM by using the / command still. Because Fall of Truth completions clobbered both fields, the difference between the two shows what Caught in the Web run you're on. Example: If it's showing CitW heroic -5 / epic 24, you're at 19 epic.
    Thanks for the quick reply! But something still doesn't make sense. Could you define how exactly FoT "clobbered" CitW completion counts. My CitW completion counts are both positive for heroic and epic.

    You said "difference" but the math looks like you meant "sum" using those numbers in the example (the FoT counter wasn't shown in the example). The difference would be 29 or -29 depending on how the equation was written (-5 - 24 = -29 or 24 - -5 = 29). And the sum is 19 (-5 + 24 = 19). So I guess I'm still confused...

    So currently if my character looks like this (which it does):

    Fot: Heroic 0 / Epic 14
    CitW: Heroic 15 / Epic 16

    Does that mean I'm at 31 completions or 30? Or something else? I'm positive I am at least at 30 CitW completions so this seems about right. Therefore regardless, I should be able to run up to 8 CitW's without needing to call a GM or grab a jar of Vaseline?
    Officer of the Platinum Knights of Cannith, Founder of the guild GHOSTBANE of Cannith
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  3. #23
    Community Member Bilger's Avatar
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    So no matter what we are stuck with this till next update. So if not even sure on counter numbers seems to me just don't run the character in raids if believe a 20 counter is close. The numbers are so screwy I haven't clue my CITW counters for my archer (16-18 area) and geuss char is set aside till this is fixed so don't miss or get shafted out of a 20 and chance at my Pinion.

    Shouldn't have to not run something because a borked system was put in place, but that is just what will have to do.
    Proud Officer of The Madborn

  4. #24
    Community Member Zarquine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tolero View Post
    - Completions of Epic difficulty that occurred prior to Menace of the Underdark (Update 14) cannot be distinguished from heroic and are treated as heroic completions. You are most likely to experience this if you had played "epic" difficulty from the original Epic system back before the quest entrance UI was split into Epic/Heroic tabs, and Epic Character levels were introduced (suspects include: Vault of Night, Demon Queen, Chronoscope). Epic runs that occurred between MOTU and Shadowfell should properly show in the Epic side of the count. This will not be corrected.
    This is complete and utter ********! I have TRed AFTER MotU and have run VON 5 on Heroic Normal or Heroic Hard and VON6 EXCLUSIVELY on Heroic Hard difficulty since then, even spend some TP on Raid Bypass Timers to get some completions!

    MY EPIC RUNS "THAT OCURRED BETWEEN MOTU AND SHADOWFELL" DON'T SHOW UP CORECTLY!

    I feel very, very betrayed and don't think that this game deserves another cent of my money although I really, really like it.

    So, you insert a new game mechanic that has absolutely no benefit for the players and even robs tem of their completions and you are not willing to do anything about it and tell me basically to eff myself. This is absolutely NOT correct.

  5. #25
    Community Member Chaimberland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by danotmano1998 View Post
    And raid timers?
    Epic versus Heroic?

    Are they going to be split as well?
    Very good question.

  6. #26
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    This has no effect on me personally, but I really feel for players who have had their completion counts messed up.

    It's absolutely baffling to me why they did this, and especially, why they did it now.

  7. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kynestra View Post
    You're wrong. Offering Epic rewards for 20 Epic completions _IS_ a new feature.
    I'm pretty sure you're being sarcastic and busting turbine's stones, but on the off chance you're serious: There are no epic reward lists for 20 epic completions. They still give heroic 20th lists for raids that have both heroic and epic versions. The devs have said that they "may, at some point in the future" create epic 20th lists for those raids.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tolero View Post
    UPDATE: We have investigated the raid and quest completion counts and have identified the following regarding the counts:

    - Completions of Epic difficulty that occurred prior to Menace of the Underdark (Update 14) cannot be distinguished from heroic and are treated as heroic completions. You are most likely to experience this if you had played "epic" difficulty from the original Epic system back before the quest entrance UI was split into Epic/Heroic tabs, and Epic Character levels were introduced (suspects include: Vault of Night, Demon Queen, Chronoscope). Epic runs that occurred between MOTU and Shadowfell should properly show in the Epic side of the count. This will not be corrected.
    We apologize for the confusion this causes to our raiders.
    Sorry Tolero, but I respectfully disagree with your findings. Epic raid completions that were done under the "new" epic system are not being counted correctly.

    Since MotU was released my Arti has run over 20 Epic VONs, yet his raid counter is "The Vault of Night : Heroic: 38 / Epic : 1"

    Please investigate further.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tolero View Post
    UPDATE: We have investigated the raid and quest completion counts and have identified the following regarding the counts:

    - The number of heroic completion and epic completions for the Caught in the Web raid are both incorrectly showing as completions from Fall of Truth. We will address this error in an upcoming patch.
    - Completions of Epic difficulty that occurred prior to Menace of the Underdark (Update 14) cannot be distinguished from heroic and are treated as heroic completions. You are most likely to experience this if you had played "epic" difficulty from the original Epic system back before the quest entrance UI was split into Epic/Heroic tabs, and Epic Character levels were introduced (suspects include: Vault of Night, Demon Queen, Chronoscope). Epic runs that occurred between MOTU and Shadowfell should properly show in the Epic side of the count. This will not be corrected.
    - Completions of Epic difficulty non-raid quests that occurred prior to Update 19 Patch 1 are listed as heroic in the completion counts (e.g. Phiarlan Carnival). Completions after U19 Patch 1 will appear in the correct column. This will not be corrected.

    We apologize for the confusion this causes to our raiders.

    Ok, Turbine, I never had a level 20 character before MotU. I've only advancd to twenty and past in the last couple months with my primary character. A character that was created right after MotU's release with vet status 7, leveled to 8, promptly leveled to 16 with a Stone of experience, and who has slowly worked up the remaining 9 levels to 25 weeks before Shadowfell's release. So explain how I'm having THIS issue.

    Against the Demon Queen : Heroic: 7 / Epic : 0
    The Vault of Night : Heroic: 1 / Epic : 1
    Caught in the Web : Heroic: 4 / Epic : 0

    I NEVER ran ADQ before hitting epic levels and ALL my ADQ raid runs have been on Epic Normal or above. (I HAVE completed the pre-raid on Heroic to speed flag for a group that was ready for the raid.) Likewise with the Vault of Night. The final problem with my quest completions...HOW IS IT EVEN POSSIBLE to HAVE Heroic Caught in the Web completions?!?!?!? As far as Fall of Truth goes, I've not even attempted that yet.

    I've always been one to rise up and defend Turbine, but this is just plain stupid, guys. C'mon, FIX it. And look into why Drow's Racial enhancement to SR isn't working right while you're at it, would ya?

  10. #30
    The Hatchery Hutoth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tolero View Post
    Epic runs that occurred between MOTU and Shadowfell should properly show in the Epic side of the count.
    This isn't correct - my main's current life only started 2 months ago, and I've only run epic VoN, yet my VoN counter lists all but 1 completion as heroic.
    Last edited by Hutoth; 08-30-2013 at 06:31 PM.
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  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tolero View Post
    Epic runs that occurred between MOTU and Shadowfell should properly show in the Epic side of the count. This will not be corrected.
    This is absolutely NOT correct. Most of my Epic completions have vanished into Heroic-never-never-land, and it is NOT because they were pre-MotU. They were all AFTER my last TR, which was LONG AFTER MotU.

    All my Epic Zawabi's Revenge completions, including the one AFTER THE PATCH last night, are showing as Heroic.

    All but 1 of my Epic VoN completions are showing as Heroic.

    All but 1 of my Epic Chronoscope completions are showing as Heroic.

    All but 1 of my LoB completions are showing as Heroic, when it should be about half and half between Heroic and Epic.

    And it's not even something as simple as "Epic Elite counts as Epic and Epic Normal/Hard wrongly count at Heroic", which was one theory I heard. I have a number of EE DQs, but still only Heroic in the completion counter list.

  12. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by SirValentine View Post
    I have a number of EE DQs, but still only Heroic in the completion counter list.
    Same.

  13. #33
    Community Member djl's Avatar
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    This is such a cluster**** that what they need to do is scrap the new system entirely, revert to the old system, and give everybody 1 free 20th list since it seems like actually fixing it and sorting out who has the right completions is too difficult.

  14. #34
    Community Member garynash7070's Avatar
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    Default Highly inaccurate I am afraid...

    Tolero,

    I TR'd my sorc Ciinder and was done with her TR two weeks before the update. Below is the list of my quest completions:

    (Standard): Raid Completions:
    Lines of Supply : Heroic: 1 / Epic : 0
    The Tracker's Trap : Heroic: 1 / Epic : 0
    Breaking the Ranks : Heroic: 0 / Epic : 0
    A Break In the Ice : Heroic: 0 / Epic : 0
    What Goes Up : Heroic: 0 / Epic : 0
    Friends in Low Places : Heroic: 0 / Epic : 0
    A Lesson in Deception : Heroic: 1 / Epic : 0
    Army of Shadow : Heroic: 0 / Epic : 0
    Through a Mirror Darkly : Heroic: 0 / Epic : 0
    The Thrill of the Hunt : Heroic: 0 / Epic : 0
    The Fall of Truth : Heroic: 0 / Epic : 7
    Menace of the Underdark: The Queen of the Demonweb : Heroic: 4 / Epic : 0
    Menace of the Underdark: City of Portals : Heroic: 3 / Epic : 0
    Menace of the Underdark: The Darkening : Heroic: 2 / Epic : 0
    Caught in the Web : Heroic: -5 / Epic : 7
    The Lord of Blades : Heroic: 0 / Epic : 0
    The Master Artificer : Heroic: 0 / Epic : 0
    Reign of Madness : Heroic: 0 / Epic : 0
    Harbinger of Madness : Heroic: 0 / Epic : 0
    Attack on Stormreach : Heroic: 1 / Epic : 0
    The Chronoscope : Heroic: 0 / Epic : 0
    The Last Stand : Heroic: 2 / Epic : 0
    Into the Deep : Heroic: 1 / Epic : 0
    The Claw of Vulkoor : Heroic: 2 / Epic : 0
    Fathom the Depths : Heroic: 1 / Epic : 0
    The Maleficent Cabal : Heroic: 0 / Epic : 0
    Sentinels of Stormreach : Heroic: 0 / Epic : 0
    The Tide Turns : Heroic: 0 / Epic : 0
    The Dreaming Dark : Heroic: 0 / Epic : 0
    The Mindsunder : Heroic: 1 / Epic : 0
    The Sharn Syndicate : Heroic: 0 / Epic : 0
    The Devil You Know : Heroic: 0 / Epic : 0
    Stealer of Souls : Heroic: 0 / Epic : 0
    Prove Your Worth : Heroic: 0 / Epic : 0
    The Legend of Two-Toed Tobias : Heroic: 0 / Epic : 0
    Ghost of a Chance : Heroic: 0 / Epic : 0
    A Vision of Destruction : Heroic: 0 / Epic : 0
    Hound of Xoriat : Heroic: 0 / Epic : 0
    The Thirteenth Eclipse : Heroic: 0 / Epic : 0
    Accursed Ascension : Heroic: 0 / Epic : 0
    The Reaver's Fate : Heroic: 0 / Epic : 0
    Against the Demon Queen : Heroic: 0 / Epic : 0
    The Twilight Forge : Heroic: 0 / Epic : 0
    The Vault of Night : Heroic: 0 / Epic : 0
    Return to Delera's Tomb : Heroic: 1 / Epic : 0
    The Abandoned Excavation : Heroic: 0 / Epic : 0
    Archbishop's Daughter : Heroic: 0 / Epic : 0
    Cult of the Six : Heroic: 0 / Epic : 0
    Assault on Splinterskull : Heroic: 0 / Epic : 0
    The Lost Seekers : Heroic: 3 / Epic : 0
    The Seal of Shan-To-Kor : Heroic: 1 / Epic : 0
    The Fire Caves : Heroic: 0 / Epic : 0
    Garl's Tomb : Heroic: 0 / Epic : 0
    The Scoundrel's Run : Heroic: 0 / Epic : 0

    Ok the Supply lines were run on 8/28/13 EE shows Heroic, Trackers Trap was run 8/29/13 around 11pm CST on EH, shows heroic. And of course the ones that are from Eveningstar that can't be run on anything but Epic were before the update. I have played and paid for this game over 7 years and for Turbine to come out and state they will not be fixing some things is in terrible bad taste. It doesn't affect me as much as it does others, so I can take this in stride, but for the others: I feel sorry for them. You should too and do something about it by actually taking the time to correct the issues 100%. Fixing some things, while not addressing the others seems to me that the coders and technical team have either thrown their hands up, WB has said to you guys fix what you can and don't spend much time on it to minimize costs, or someone if not multiples of those in leadership at Turbine/WB doesn't care. Those in leadership at Turbine/WB should care for they are affecting their customers. Without customers they will not be getting paid their bonuses, nor will you guys have a job to do. I think the majority of you guys actually care about the game, the gamers(your customers), but whether you do or don't your jobs primarily is to ensure good customer service and maintain a desirable product for the consumers to spend their money on. I understand you guys have bosses, which have bosses, and so on but to ensure you have customers everyone from the customer service rep's to the President of Turbine/WB needs to take care of your customer base.

    I have worked in Big companies and small ones. From mom and pop's to Multinational companies and the one thing that keeps them in business is #1 taking care of your customers #2 maximizing your profitability while keeping your attention to #1. Show everyone that is in the #1 category, which is you guys life's blood that you hear them and care about their time and money they spend playing what in most cases in their favorite game. Mine too!!! I again, know you guys care, but knowing and showing is different!
    Krylor----Lauralinn----Thorriin----Hunii----Ciinder----Holdiin----Leader of Templar on Cannith

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  15. #35
    2016 DDO Players Council Stoner81's Avatar
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    Caught in the Web : Heroic: 31 / Epic : 4

    According to my own records I have run this 35 times which at least matches up and I even had a 20th list some time ago which had the usual stuff in it as one would expect (no Pinion though ) so what the hell does this mean now where the hell am I up to? All my other raid counters seem to make sense as far as I can tell which is something at least, if you are going to introduce this then at least remove QUESTS from the RAID completion list ffs!

    Stoner81.

  16. #36
    Community Member djl's Avatar
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    So I just ran a Von5/6 on EH and checked the completions. It gave me 1 to Epic.

    Problem is, they converted all of my previous Epic completions into Heroic, so essentially they STOLE 13 completions from me because I am obviously not going to be running heroic-leveled raids at cap.

    This needs to be a TOP priority to fix this, or if they judge they cannot fix it in a timely manner some kind of compensation needs to be awarded to the players instead because many people (like me) were a few runs away from a list and now have to essentially start over. I am extremely disgusted with Turbine, and I know I am not alone in this.

  17. #37
    Founder xberto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LVSammy View Post
    Just did my 20ths for Caught in the Web and Fall of Truth on 2 different toons after seeing that the 20th completions were fixed and did get named loot. However, recieved skill tome upgrades (+3-4) instead of stat tomes on most and on one I received a +3 to +4 stat tome upgrade when it should have been a pure +4 or a +4 to +5 upgrade.... Very disappointed. Please will you let me know if this is an intentional change or yet another mishap. If this was intended, will you also explain... what the hell were you thinking? Thank you. :-)
    Good question, If I thought the draw was bugged on my first 20 completion toon, I would not have tried on my second.
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  18. #38
    Hero thesnoman's Avatar
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    OK - so I just looked at my list and, like others, it's completely borked.

    Good news - nothing's close to a multiple of 20 for me and I'll just take it in stride.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mystera View Post
    To add insult to injury I ran EH CITW with him after that and he pulled the Twilight staff which wasn't even upgraded even though it was an EH run.
    Just an FYI - CiTW items are not upgraded based on the level you get them on - only FoT raid loot is upgraded by EH and EE.

    CiTW Raid Loot requires 375 PDK favor to upgrade (which is really east to achieve now anyway)
    "Melkorr (Completionist "Toaster of Vengeance") ~ Angrond (TWF Jugg) ~ Telchacar ~ Celebrimor (Bank) ~ Manados
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  19. #39
    Hatchery Hero BOgre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kynestra View Post
    You're wrong. Offering Epic rewards for 20 Epic completions _IS_ a new feature. The mixup in completions from the new implementation is merely an unlisted Fringe Benefit. You should be thankful for the new fodder for a slew of up-and-coming forum complaints, you didn't have to pay for it.

    *Edit* The crazy pills are free, too.
    Offering Epic rewards for 20 Epic completions _WOULD BE_ a new feature, _IF_ it was implemented. As of now, all we have is a split counter that doesn't work and is causing busted 20th's. The eRewards may or may not ever happen, either for old raids, or for new.

  20. #40
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    Just a thought, instead of just berrating the gms and game designers, why not try making constructive remarks instead. Yes some people are gonna lose some work with the new system. O well, it happens with every patch. there is gear that changed with the new patch, my old unique loot with deathward isnt as effective as new DW. new DW is still cool though. It would be nice if they could track perfectly what everyone ran, but the system was not designed to do that yet. Since i could claim all my runs were epic elite, and they cant prove they weren't, they are doing the best they can with the data they have.

    It sounds to me like a lot more Epic runs will be done with the new system instead of gaming it by running 19 heroic 1 epic for final reward. Makes sense to me. It also lets them add cool new Epic end rewards knowing that those that get them will have earned them. So I'm gonna be the only one to say, nice work on the new system, it sounds like it has potential. hope you put in some cool Epic 20th runs rewards too, since it will be far harder to get them.

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