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  1. #121
    Community Member Postumus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsquishwizzy View Post

    What this all comes down to is that the people who are accusing others of immoral behavior are just envious of people who found the exploit, and got good loot. In most moral constructs, envy is just as bad as theft.

    people reported the issue, Turbine decided it was a bug, and took some sort of action to rectify the situation (I assume). Condemning people for taking the reward is what's wrong here, not the quest reward / loot itself.

    If you are in line and the person ahead of you has the exact same $100 item but the computer accidentally rings it up as $10, do you:

    A- Say nothing and hope the same thing happens to you?

    B- Say something to the cashier and pay the correct amount?

    C- Run out and tell all your friends that the store computer has a glitch and they can get $100 items for $10 then go back to the store over and over to get as many $100 items for $10 that you can?


    Condemning people for taking an inappropriate reward that pops up in the end reward list is one thing, condemning people for taking advantage of an obviously broken mechanism is quite another.

  2. #122
    Halfling Hero phalaeo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Limey View Post
    Somebody always has to blab, this is why we can't have nice things.
    Yep.
    ~ Pallai, Chennai, Saraphima~
    ~Shipbuff, Sophalia, Northenstar ~
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  3. #123
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Postumus View Post

    C- Run out and tell all your friends that the store computer has a glitch and they can get $100 items for $10 then go back to the store over and over to get as many $100 items for $10 that you can?
    Every single time. If they don't test for it and pay attention they deserve to lose money.

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by jjflanigan View Post
    Very much this.

    I'm not saying people shouldn't run it like normal to advance the chain, you shouldn't hurt your game play due to a favorable bug. However, it's straight out wrong the amount of LFMs I've seen with people chain running it just to try to get the higher end loot that they don't want to have to work to earn.

    -JJ
    That was my attitude toward it. I ran the quest exactly twice (once each on two different characters) because they were level 10 and needed to do that quest. Then again, all I got was the normal level 12 rewards list which are pretty much total junk anyway so there would be no reason to want to farm in the first place. People playing epic may feel differently, but I have no need to play epic since I flag in heroic at level 10 and don't need to go back for epic.
    Everyone who is not in the true definition of "hardcore" is looked down on as a "casual", unwilling or incapable of understanding the true brilliance of having twelve-year-olds insult you while they are teabagging your virtual corpse. - Christian Ward columnist for The Escapist

  5. #125
    Community Member SilkofDrasnia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by user110000 View Post
    Im sure your the first person to find that out, i mean, if otheres new about it there would be a queue of people outside getting rewards over and over.
    Also, if the above was true, people who liked this little bonus would be annoyed you announcing it for the quest to close shortly. haha
    "Lucy" needs to do some splainin to him it seems...lmao
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    Insulting the development team is not allowed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jendrak
    Somebody should definitely explain to Turbine that when they roll up a new GM that INT is not dump stat.

  6. #126
    Community Member BoBo2020's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by darthhento View Post
    It is obviously working as intended.
    I agree.

    I believe this is intentional.

    It's almost as though someone at Turbine is saying "we're really sorry for ruining your twink gear and festival gear so we're going to give you the chance to get a little bit of nice loot. This obviously doesn't make up for what we did but we hope it makes you feel a little better."

    ...

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    Every single time. If they don't test for it and pay attention they deserve to lose money.
    This is about where I sit with in game bugs. The most likely reason that beneficial bugs get fixed fast while others don't likely isn't that Turbine hates us. It's that we are less likely to avoid beneficial bugs on our own, so they don't see it as something that they can put off until whenever (whennever?). If we all took the attitude of some here and avoided even the beneficial one's, it seems likely that nothing would get fixed and they would have zero incentive to get anything right the first time or ever fix that which they don't.

  8. #128
    Community Member kinggartk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsquishwizzy View Post
    The FDIC insures deposits up to (I think) $100,000.00. That money comes from somewhere, and that usually is the US federal government. Yes, I know this is an oversimplification.

    The cash from the federal government comes from tax payers. It is wealth confiscated by the government to fund its activities (which includes keeping the FDIC insuring deposits). That money they confiscate is wealth, whether it valued from GDP or from gold, it is still W-E-A-L-T-H. They had to work to obtain it. Whether they dug up a nugget of gold and sold it to someone for dollars, or whether they worked for 10 hours one day and got a nightly paycheck.

    When you steal money from a bank, the FDIC pays off the difference, which means it comes from federal funds, which comes from taxpayers, which means that instead of stealing the wealth of depositors, you’ve just now milked your average Joe taxpayer of money that was never yours.

    But I don’t give wealth to Turbine for quest rewards – I pay them so I can play specific content for my own entertainment. We ALL do. So someone getting some stupid quest reward as an exploits may or may not devalue a small portion of the game, but it steals from NO ONE. I cannot use that item in certain levels of the game, and after other levels of the game it becomes useless.

    What you described as counterfeiting has a much broader effect, and does not apply at all.

    What is clear is that you have absolutely no grasp of finance or economics whatsoever. Hence the reason I asked if you were 15 years of age.

    And if this type of utterly insane logic that you’re spewing is what comes from reading “electronic media” (which it doesn’t), then this world is doomed…
    Wrong...Gov't does not fund FDIC. The banks themselves fund FDIC with payments mandated by the gov't.

  9. #129
    Community Member Kalimah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsquishwizzy View Post
    I am more than aware of this.
    If so then you intentionally made misleading comments prior

    The US Dollar is worth what the US Gov says its worth. They use the dollar to help manipulate world currency markets on a regular basis. This is why you are seeing such a hard push from China and the middle east to unlink the USD as the international standard.

  10. #130
    Community Member Kalimah's Avatar
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    Not trying to bust your b's Squish, just having some fun here.

  11. #131
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalimah View Post
    If so then you intentionally made misleading comments prior

    The US Dollar is worth what the US Gov says its worth. They use the dollar to help manipulate world currency markets on a regular basis. This is why you are seeing such a hard push from China and the middle east to unlink the USD as the international standard.
    In his original statement he said if the money is linked to something like gold. I don't normally agree with squishy but this time you guys just aren't reading closely what he said.

  12. #132
    Community Member Kalimah's Avatar
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    Nah I agree with Squish on this too, I was just messing around is all. I re-read that this morning also

    The only thing I disagree with Squish on this is the whole morality in game world vs morality IRL. They are not comparable and any attempt to make a meaninful comparison between the two is an excercise in futility.

  13. #133
    Community Member bartharok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    Every single time. If they don't test for it and pay attention they deserve to lose money.
    If i see you walking in a dark alley im entitled to mug you?
    Dystopia = utopia achieved

  14. #134
    Community Member Havok.cry's Avatar
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    If I go to the VW dealer, fill out the forms, sign the paperwork and they give me the keys and wave by to me and my new ferrari, then No, no cheating occurred. The von 1 loot tables were like that.

    If I steal from an open unattended bank vault then I have done wrong.

    Simple as that.
    Matt Walsh:
    But Truth is eternal, so it can never be old or new. It never ‘was’ or ‘will be.’ It just ‘is.’ It always ‘is.’

  15. #135
    Community Member bsquishwizzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kinggartk View Post
    Wrong...Gov't does not fund FDIC. The banks themselves fund FDIC with payments mandated by the gov't.
    Payments mandated by government are also called "taxes."

    Banks don't make wealth, they have to attract investors to collect wealth. So, in the extended sense, those payments made by banks come from what is essentially Average Joe taxpayers.

    You say toe-may-toe, I say toe-mah-toe...it's still a red fruit regardless of what it is called. (And yes, I know tomatoes come in different colors.)

  16. #136
    Community Member bartharok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok.cry View Post
    If I go to the VW dealer, fill out the forms, sign the paperwork and they give me the keys and wave by to me and my new ferrari, then No, no cheating occurred. The von 1 loot tables were like that.

    If I steal from an open unattended bank vault then I have done wrong.

    Simple as that.
    If you take advantage of the vw dealer by taking the ferrari, you may not have done anything illegal. If its wrong or not is another matter, that can be debated for the rest of eternity.
    Dystopia = utopia achieved

  17. #137
    Community Member bsquishwizzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalimah View Post
    If so then you intentionally made misleading comments prior

    The US Dollar is worth what the US Gov says its worth. They use the dollar to help manipulate world currency markets on a regular basis. This is why you are seeing such a hard push from China and the middle east to unlink the USD as the international standard.
    Actually, that is not true. The US dollar is worth what people want to buy it for.

    You have a strong GDP, and faith in the US economy (hence a faith in the US government by extension, as they are the entity that backs the US currency - the "full faith and credit" of that currency), it will be worth more. If people - basically foreign governments and financial institutions - start to get nervous about your currency, they will buy less of it, the market will flood, and the currency will be worth less.

    The same goes for printing currency. You print more currency and make it available on the market, with a static demand, the value will drop.

    The gold standard assumes that the value of stuff like gold will never drop, but that is not a solid argument. If the market gets suddenly flooded with gold (like if a billion small solid-gold meteorites landed on earth, and basically increased the supply exponentially), then the value of currency falls accordingly. Is this realistic? Probably not. But it is a remote possibility.

    I'm not a huge financial guy - I understand the basics. However, flooding the game with weapons / equipment that have a certain level range will not depreciate the game economics, or have any relation to all of the bad issues that people were saying it would have. This is because, unlike REAL wealth, these things only work within a certain range of levels. You cannot use them before a specific levsl, and after a specific level they sorta become useless. This is unlike real world wealth, which is a very large, all-encompassing pool where everything rises and falls according to the value of a specific item or items. Precious metals are precious regardless of a specific range of their applications.

  18. #138
    Community Member Havok.cry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bartharok View Post
    If its wrong or not is another matter, that can be debated for the rest of eternity.
    I am glad you brought up this point. This is why you(collective you, not personal you) should not try to impose most moral beliefs on strangers. They may not agree, and there is nothing you can do to force that belief in them.
    Last edited by Havok.cry; 08-30-2013 at 01:43 PM.
    Matt Walsh:
    But Truth is eternal, so it can never be old or new. It never ‘was’ or ‘will be.’ It just ‘is.’ It always ‘is.’

  19. #139
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bartharok View Post
    If i see you walking in a dark alley im entitled to mug you?
    I assume you will and am usually prepared to try to kill anyone right back.

  20. #140
    Community Member bsquishwizzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Postumus View Post
    If you are in line and the person ahead of you has the exact same $100 item but the computer accidentally rings it up as $10, do you:

    A- Say nothing and hope the same thing happens to you?

    B- Say something to the cashier and pay the correct amount?

    C- Run out and tell all your friends that the store computer has a glitch and they can get $100 items for $10 then go back to the store over and over to get as many $100 items for $10 that you can?


    Condemning people for taking an inappropriate reward that pops up in the end reward list is one thing, condemning people for taking advantage of an obviously broken mechanism is quite another.
    No, it is not.

    First, unless you ask, you have ZERO idea as to why something is marked down from $100.00 to $10.00.

    Second – and it is clear you have NOT read any of the stuff I’ve posted – if that were the case I would do EXACTLY as I advised. I’d ask the clerk ringing me up as if she was charging me the correct amount (and yes, I’m the type of guy who does this), and offer to pay the correct amount (I can’t do the latter in the game). I’ve had this happen a couple of times before. The cashier usually tells me that they just want the stock out of the store, and off their shelves. There are a myriad number of reasons for this.

    Third, if the price is correct, you’ll bet I’ll tell my friends about it. It is a discount, and it is a deal. And yeah, I’d go back and get more of it.

    Granted, the example you are presenting does not exactly fit the issue being debated as what you are buying is not a reward for completing some action. This is money being taken out of your pocket to buy something. There is no fixed supply of the end rewards in the system, unlike store inventory. But what I’ve recommended still applies in many areas of the example.

    Likewise, a discounted price does not always mean that the computer is glitched. Nor does a strange and unique end reward always mean that there is a bug in DDO.

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