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  1. #1
    Community Member ninjamonkey373's Avatar
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    Default Old Saint Pick, the Centered Dwarven Pickmaster (8ftr 6mnk 6 rng)

    This is the build whose picks will pierce through the heavens.

    The goal of this build is to create a high DPS TWF melee with options for a certain degree of self sufficiency in EH to EE content.
    Don't be afraid to be a critic, I'm open to any potential improvements that can be made.

    Level 25 Lawful Neutral Dwarf Male
    (8 Fighter / 6 Monk / 6 Ranger / 8 Epic)

    Starting
    Abilities Base Stats

    (36 Point) (Level 1)
    Strength 16 (+2 tome & level ups means OWC)
    Dexterity 14 (+3 tome = GTWF)
    Constitution 18 (+3 tome = Epic Toughness)
    Intelligence 14 (+2 tome for decent skill points)
    Wisdom 12 (+1 tome for Zen Archery)
    Charisma 6 (dump)

    Class and Race breakdown

    8 Fighter

    -5 bonus feats
    Kensei (33-34 ap)
    -Minimum of 8 levels to access One With The Blade (centered picks and hammers)
    -Keen edge means 15-20 / x4 Deathnips (outclasses keen edge Balizarde)
    -Many goodies in the kensei tree (extra weapon damage, double strike, haste boost, str, etc.)

    6 Monk

    -Evasion
    -Being centered for Dance of Flowers (3W Deathnips)
    -3 bonus feats
    -6% dodge
    -Tier 2 stances (to be upgraded to tier 3 with a feat)
    -Light monk buffs
    Shintao (15 ap)
    -10% off hand strike from Deft Strikes
    -27 Prr from iron skin and earth stance
    -30 positive spell power and 15% healing amp from core abilities
    Ninja Spy (13ap)
    -25% incorp
    - +1 Sneak attack die
    -2% dodge
    -Improved Destruction clicky (Eagle Claw Attack)
    -Some threat reduction to help balance off earth stance
    -Sting of the ninja works with centered Deathnips

    6 Ranger
    -Many useful auto granted feats (TWF, ITWF, Bow Str, Rapid Shot, Precise Shot, Manyshot)
    -2 favored enemies
    -2 spell slots (Rams might, Resist Energy)
    Tempest (6ap)
    -Another 10% off hand strike (2nd core enhancement) means 100% off hand strikes
    - +2 reflex
    - +1 to hit and damage
    Deepwood Stalker (6 ap)
    - +1 sneak attack die
    - +75 positive spell power from the empathy enhancements.
    Arcane Archer (6 ap)
    -Infinite Ammo
    -Echos of power means unlimited rejuvenation cocoons, rams mights, resist energies, and energy sheathes

    Dwarf
    - +2 base constitution means 18 base con is more practical, therefore Epic toughness is avalible without using level up points in con, using 6 build points for the last 2 con points, or needing a ridiculous +5 con tome.
    Enhancements (0-1 ap)
    - +10 hp?
    - The possibility to take enhancements for extra pick/hammer damage if you want to skip out on other enhancements.

    Leveling order, feats, and skills (very open to criticism)

    Level 1 (Ranger)
    Skill: Balance (+2)
    Skill: Bluff (+2)
    Skill: Concentration (+4)
    Skill: Diplomacy (+2)
    Skill: Haggle (+2)
    Skill: Heal (+4)
    Skill: Spot (+2)
    Skill: Tumble (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
    Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead
    Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Artificer
    Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Barbarian
    Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Bard
    Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Favored Soul
    Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Fighter
    Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Paladin
    Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Piercing Weapons
    Feat: (Automatic) Bow Strength

    Level 2 (Fighter)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Heal (+0.5)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Point Blank Shot

    Level 3 (Monk)
    Skill: Balance (+4)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
    Feat: (Selected) Cleave
    Feat: (Monk Bonus) Power Attack
    Feat: (Automatic) Disciple of Stances

    Level 4 (Monk)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Skill: Balance (+1)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Heal (+1.5)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
    Feat: (Monk Bonus) Zen Archery
    Feat: (Automatic) Evasion

    Level 5 (Fighter)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Heal (+0.5)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Great Cleave

    Level 6 (Monk)
    Skill: Balance (+2)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Heal (+1.5)
    Feat: (Monk Path) Path of Harmonious Balance: Fists of Light
    Feat: (Selected) Toughness
    Feat: (Automatic) Finishing Moves: Path of Harmonious Balance (ALL)

    Level 7 (Ranger)
    Skill: Balance (+1)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
    Skill: Heal (+2)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Automatic) Rapid Shot
    Feat: (Automatic) Two Weapon Fighting

    Level 8 (Ranger)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Skill: Balance (+1)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Diplomacy (+2)
    Skill: Heal (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)

    Level 9 (Ranger)
    Skill: Balance (+1)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Diplomacy (+2)
    Skill: Heal (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Piercing Weapons
    Feat: (Automatic) Precise Shot
    Feat: (Automatic) Archer's Focus

    Level 10 (Fighter)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Heal (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)

    Level 11 (Ranger)
    Skill: Balance (+2)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
    Skill: Heal (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
    Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider

    Level 12 (Ranger)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Skill: Balance (+1)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Diplomacy (+2)
    Skill: Heal (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
    Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
    Feat: (Automatic) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
    Feat: (Automatic) Manyshot

    Level 13 (Fighter)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Heal (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Ranged Weapons

    Level 14 (Fighter)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Heal (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)

    Level 15 (Monk)
    Skill: Balance (+3)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Heal (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
    Feat: (Selected) Weapon Specialization: Piercing Weapons

    Level 16 (Monk)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Skill: Balance (+1)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Diplomacy (+2)
    Skill: Heal (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)

    Level 17 (Monk)
    Skill: Balance (+1)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Diplomacy (+2)
    Skill: Heal (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
    Feat: (Monk Bonus) Precision
    Feat: (Automatic) Adept of Stances

    Level 18 (Fighter)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Heal (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
    Feat: (Selected) Master of Stances
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons

    Level 19 (Fighter)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Heal (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)

    Level 20 (Fighter)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Focus: Piercing Weapons

    Level 21 (Epic)
    Feat: (Selected) Overwhelming Critical

    Level 22 (Epic)

    Level 23 (Epic)

    Level 24 (Epic)
    Feat: (Selected) Epic Toughness

    Level 25 (Epic)

    Level 26 (Epic)
    Feat: (Selected) Perfect Two Weapon Fighting

    Level 27 (Epic)
    Feat: (Selected) Either Blinding Speed, Epic Reflexes, or Epic Damage Reduction (Not sure about this one, Blinding speed seems the most tempting for a dps since it frees up my quiver of alacrity spot for a quiver of poison (manyshot swap outs), but the increased survivability from the other feats is nothing to sneeze at though.)

    Level 28 (Epic)
    Feat: (Selected) Either Elusive Target or Pierce Damage Reduction Adamantine (or Silver) (Once again, not sure about this one, What is basically 5% stacking dodge seems a bit under whelming, but it may be nice with incorp, dodge and blur/displacement. But on the other hand bypassing dr is nice, though I dont know if it's worth it since with good umd one could scroll adamantine weapons onto deathnips. Silver would probably be a waste though, as it's only current use would be to make a artiless ToD or Shroud a bit easier)

    Epic Destines

    Fury (main)
    This build is made to swap out to pinion for manyshots, so why not make that manyshot, a fury shot?
    -Fury Shot
    -Sense Weakness
    -Gird Against Demons
    -Tunnel Vision?
    -Caster level 11 resist energy and rams might.
    +6 damage
    Twists
    Slot 1
    -Grim Precicion (68% fort by pass with precision, black dragon scale robe, and eagle claw attack)
    -Critical damage (obvious reasons)
    -Anvil of Thunder (This one may seem weird, but with 100% off hand strikes, some double strike and a high crit range, this could be a reliable way of stunning)
    Slot 2
    -Rejuvenation cocoon (Your life line)
    -Energy Sheath (nice in FoT)
    Slot 3
    -A Dance of Flowers (3W Deathnips)

    Dreadnaught
    Masters Blitz is nice, this is undeniable.
    -Masters blitz
    - +1W (not as good as +6 damage, but still nice)
    -Shorter action boost cooldowns
    -Anvil of thunder
    -Devastating critical
    -Critical damage
    -Advancing blows
    -Extra action boosts?
    Twists
    Slot 1
    -Grim Precicion (68% fort by pass with precision, black dragon scale robe, and eagle claw attack)
    -Sense Weakness (obvious reasons)
    -Gird Against Demons (situational dr breaking)
    Slot 2
    -Rejuvenation cocoon (Your life line)
    Slot 3
    -A Dance of Flowers (3W Deathnips)
    "Flexo" on the Cannith server (and many others).
    What would happen if Pinocchio said "my nose will now grow because I said this."?
    If actions speak louder than words, why is the pen mightier than the sword?

  2. #2
    Community Member ninjamonkey373's Avatar
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    Default Gear

    I'm not sure about gear yet.
    This is reserved for gear setups.
    "Flexo" on the Cannith server (and many others).
    What would happen if Pinocchio said "my nose will now grow because I said this."?
    If actions speak louder than words, why is the pen mightier than the sword?

  3. #3
    Community Member ninjamonkey373's Avatar
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    Default Misc.

    I'm not sure if I'll need more room for some more text.
    Reserved for possible future use.
    "Flexo" on the Cannith server (and many others).
    What would happen if Pinocchio said "my nose will now grow because I said this."?
    If actions speak louder than words, why is the pen mightier than the sword?

  4. #4
    Community Member mezzorco's Avatar
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    Default

    Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons ????

    Take Stunning Blow instead, take tactical DC from kensai, take tactical DC from dwarf. Just my standpoint.

  5. #5
    Community Member korsat's Avatar
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    Default

    +1 Looks like a very interesting build, as already suggested I would consider stunning blow too for the dwarf+kensei+ld(twisted) dc boost.

    But I don't see it crucial, especially if you don't have enough ap to spend, since fury gives you free knock down with no save at tier4 and you should regenerate fury fast enough with 30% haste boost and manyshot.

    So instead of ic: bludgeon, if you plan to use deathnips, you can take something else. maybe ips? if you have the prerequisites. or the ultimate monk stances.

    I'm not sure if you will have enough ap to fit everything in. Would be very cool to have t4 ninja spy for the additional +30% damage on helpless after a fury knock.

    Also I would twist in momentum swing(or grim precision vs high fort), cocoon, dance of flowers when in fury. Can renunce at critical damage imo.

    again very good ideas in here...
    Avenlight - Human - 12Fvs/6Monk/2Pal/8Epic
    Avenlight - Human - 17Cleric/2Monk/1Fighter/8Epic
    Korsat - Dwarf - 18Wizard/2Monk/8Epic
    Zendark - Halfelf - 12Monk/6Ranger/2Fighter/8Epic

    Korsat's Build Index

    ROS, Argonessen.

  6. #6
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    This is pretty much THE U19 build I think. Picks, Dwarven Waraxes, Khopeshes, whatever to taste, but basically this.

    I went 18 Str, 14 Dex, 18 Con, 10 Int, 10 Wis, 6 Cha.

    Gonna go with Dwarven Waraxes for now, just because I wanna.

    My planned Feat list (in addition to the freebies):

    Heroic:
    GTWF
    WF: Slashing / GWF: Slashing
    WS: Slashing
    IC: Slashing
    Power Attack / Cleave / Great Cleave
    Dodge or Toughness (not sure yet, took Dodge for now)
    Stunning Blow
    Combat Expertise / Improved Trip
    Improved Sunder
    Level 12 Stances
    Level 18 Stances (probably not necessary, but I have time to consider something else)

    Epic:
    Overwhelming Critical
    Haven't decided after that

    Lots of Tactics stuff in there, just seemed a shame to waste that 18 Strength and +6 tactics from Kensai/Dwarf. Improved Sunder is to help wear down the Fortitude Save for Stunning Blow to land.

    If you wanna forego tactics anyways, this might be a good place for that Dwarven Throw your Weight Around stuff. A level up or two to get Overwhelming Critical...and then Con it up.

    The worst thing about this is you don't get to wield your weapons until Level 20...
    Last edited by rimble; 08-29-2013 at 11:00 AM.

  7. #7
    Community Member ninjamonkey373's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mezzorco View Post
    Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons ????

    Take Stunning Blow instead, take tactical DC from kensai, take tactical DC from dwarf. Just my standpoint.
    My reason behind going for Improved critical bludgeoning vs stunning blow is that deathnips will be useless vs many undead, (Abbot, Truthful One, skeleton mobs). However, Warhammers are in the same focus groups as picks, so they get centered and keen, giving any basic warhammer a khopesh crit range (and with a minimum 68% fort by pass undead can be reliably crit for much more damage). In regards to stunning blow, I don't think it would ever be able to get a good enough dc to be useable in EE content (60 is the minimum useful DC from what I heard) since AP is stretched thin on build I could easily pick up +3 tactics from kensei, but Id have to sacrifice a lot to get +3 tactics from dwarf. Also there are a couple of other options for stunning on this build (adrenaline knock down & possibly anvil of thunder)

    Quote Originally Posted by korsat View Post
    +1 Looks like a very interesting build, as already suggested I would consider stunning blow too for the dwarf+kensei+ld(twisted) dc boost.

    But I don't see it crucial, especially if you don't have enough ap to spend, since fury gives you free knock down with no save at tier4 and you should regenerate fury fast enough with 30% haste boost and manyshot.

    So instead of ic: bludgeon, if you plan to use deathnips, you can take something else. maybe ips? if you have the prerequisites. or the ultimate monk stances.

    I'm not sure if you will have enough ap to fit everything in. Would be very cool to have t4 ninja spy for the additional +30% damage on helpless after a fury knock.

    Also I would twist in momentum swing(or grim precision vs high fort), cocoon, dance of flowers when in fury. Can renunce at critical damage imo.

    again very good ideas in here...
    I was considering IPS as a possible feat, it's could be a good option instead of ICB for nice aoe burst damage. As for ultimate stances, the differences between master and ultimate earth stances are +3 prr +1 con and +25% threat. I don't think generating any more threat than necessary is a good thing since pulling boss aggro from a tank sucks, and I don't think it's worth a feat slot for +3 prr and +1 con (+ something that's more of a hinderance). Momentum swing doesn't proc off hand strikes when TWFing, neither do cleave or great cleave which would need to be spamed to reset the cool down, so sadly it's actually a reduction in dps to use them. Investing more in ninja spy could be done, but would require ap sacrifices elsewhere.
    "Flexo" on the Cannith server (and many others).
    What would happen if Pinocchio said "my nose will now grow because I said this."?
    If actions speak louder than words, why is the pen mightier than the sword?

  8. #8
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    How do Deathnips compare to Mornh (EDIT: for this build, I mean)?

    EDIT: how weird is it to have a multi-TR which has only taken a +1 WIS tome?

    EDIT 2: if you're investing in PRR, any chance you can squeeze in TWD + Imp Parry (6 APs) for +15 PRR?
    Last edited by unbongwah; 08-29-2013 at 11:30 AM.

  9. #9
    Community Member die's Avatar
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    Since when can monks stay centerd when holding picks?
    Kahzadoom~Xzr~Irondoom~Doomlord~XvKing DoomHammer~
    Xoriat Born~Doompriest~Doom~DoomTusk~Legion of Doom~Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering.

  10. #10
    Community Member mezzorco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by die View Post
    Since when can monks stay centerd when holding picks?
    Kensai tree, tier 5, prereq: Greater Weapon Focus

    One With The Blade: Your melee Focus weapons are considered Centering. While Centered, you may gain various benefits from levels in Monk or as a Grandmaster of Flowers.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by die View Post
    Since when can monks stay centerd when holding picks?
    Monks can be centered holding any weapon and a fighter 8 splash since u19.

  12. #12
    Community Member ninjamonkey373's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    How do Deathnips compare to Mornh (EDIT: for this build, I mean)?

    EDIT: how weird is it to have a multi-TR which has only taken a +1 WIS tome?

    EDIT 2: if you're investing in PRR, any chance you can squeeze in TWD + Imp Parry (6 APs) for +15 PRR?
    Mornhs can be used with this build, With the improved base damage and higher crit range, they may out class Triple positive or mornlode warhammers against undead (that would require some significant number crunching to find out though). As a main weapon they are inferior because they are X3 crit multiplier rather than X4 (though they do have the same crit range), and since they only deal bludgeon damage they can't be used with sting of the ninja.

    I was only going with the minimum tome requirements of the build, I acutally have +3s in all stats except wisdom, which has a +2.

    I'm trying to get decent prr but i dont think 1 feat is worth 5 prr, though 6 ap in tempest for 10 prr may be worth it. As it stands I'm looking at 41 prr (12 earth + 15 iron skin +14 augment) adding 10 on to that means about 4% less damage taken.
    Taking iron skin in shintao has the benefit of opening up higher tier core enhancements for better healing spell power and healing amp, taking improved parry in tempest doesn't have a comparable benefit from the tree. In the end it's just preference, one can give up 1 sneak attack die and 75 healing Spell power (from the deep wood stalker tree) for +10 prr , but I don't think the sacrifice to self healing is worth it.
    "Flexo" on the Cannith server (and many others).
    What would happen if Pinocchio said "my nose will now grow because I said this."?
    If actions speak louder than words, why is the pen mightier than the sword?

  13. #13
    Community Member die's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mezzorco View Post
    Kensai tree, tier 5, prereq: Greater Weapon Focus

    One With The Blade: Your melee Focus weapons are considered Centering. While Centered, you may gain various benefits from levels in Monk or as a Grandmaster of Flowers.
    Hmm.. Nice
    Kahzadoom~Xzr~Irondoom~Doomlord~XvKing DoomHammer~
    Xoriat Born~Doompriest~Doom~DoomTusk~Legion of Doom~Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering.

  14. #14
    Halfling Hero phalaeo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jalont View Post
    Monks can be centered holding any weapon and a fighter 8 splash since u19.
    I'm still getting used to the new enhancements (so my apologies if I'm reading something wrong), but don't you only need 5 levels fighter to get a tier 5 enhancement?

    http://ddowiki.com/page/Kensei_enhancements
    Tier Five

    Requires: Fighter level 5, Character Level 12, and 30 points spent in tree.


    One With The Blade: Your melee Focus weapons are considered Centering. While Centered, you may gain various benefits from levels in Monk or as a Grandmaster of Flowers
    ~ Pallai, Chennai, Saraphima~
    ~Shipbuff, Sophalia, Northenstar ~
    ~ Ascent~



  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by phalaeo View Post
    I'm still getting used to the new enhancements (so my apologies if I'm reading something wrong), but don't you only need 5 levels fighter to get a tier 5 enhancement?
    One With the Blade requires Keen Edge Enhancement.

    Keen Edge requires Weapon Group Specialization (Tier 4) Enhancement.

    Weapon Group Specialization (Tier 4) requires Greater Weapon Focus Feat.

    Greater Weapon Focus Requires Fighter Level 8.

  16. #16
    The Hatchery Wipey's Avatar
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    Tier 4 kensei specialization requires Greater weapon focus feat which requires 8 fighter levels Pallai.
    Yes, it doesn't make much sense.
    Quote Originally Posted by ninjamonkey373 View Post
    -Keen edge means 15-20 / x4 Deathnips (outclasses keen edge Balizarde)
    Unlikely. Kensei-ed Balizarde crits on 13.
    Shahang Nezhat Bellezza Wipekin Farida of Ghallanda

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Encair View Post
    Tier 4 kensei specialization requires Greater weapon focus feat which requires 8 fighter levels Pallai.
    Yes, it doesn't make much sense.

    Unlikely. Kensei-ed Balizarde crits on 13.
    You are correct... until base damage mods start to hit around 100, then deathnip actually edges it out due to X4 crits if the balizarde isn't upgraded. If it is upgraded then... much longer.

    Deathnip does however edge out khopesh at much lower levels, but doesn't offer the +10 stun or +10 trip of the drow khopesh, so what's that count for? And loot gen/crafted khopeshes beat the snot out of lootgen/crafted picks for when you need DR breaking or special circumstance weapons. Overall a deathnip build is very competitive.
    Last edited by Inoukchuk; 09-04-2013 at 02:42 PM.

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    BTw, I like the build a lot. It's very similar to my Ginsu build... and in fact I may merge the 2 if I can work out the enhancements. The advantage of the Ginsu is I really don't need to invest much in the racial tree. Dwarf, I'd want to put in about 20 pts. But... I've always kinda wanted to play a dwarf but could never justify it on any of my builds, til now =) This is competitive enough with khopesh and rapier to make me want to try it. On the other hand.... I have a very nice collection of khopeshes.

  19. #19
    Community Member Oxarhamar's Avatar
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    I was around lvl 12 in a Stunning blow Stunning fist focused 6 fighter 12 monk 2 rogue life when U19 hit

    Deathnips are my favorite weapon so seeing an opportunity to test out the new Centered Kensii Keen Edge with Deathnips I switched my path to:

    8 fighter 10 monk 2 rogue without using the free+20LR

    I did not get into epics with this build since it was a 20 and TR monk life but I did get to try Deathnips w/ Keen edge centered Greater Earth stance w/sting of the ninja

    I was quite happy with the way it worked out

    This build looks fun for sure

  20. #20
    Community Member Retrodark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ninjamonkey373 View Post
    My reason behind going for Improved critical bludgeoning vs stunning blow is that deathnips will be useless vs many undead, (Abbot, Truthful One, skeleton mobs)...
    Do you realize that undead (Skeletons) are mostly immune to critical hits? So, improving your crit range will not really help you much on blunt weapons, if this is your only reason. The only benefit I can think of from crits are for the old burst effects.

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