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Thread: Bearbarian

  1. #1
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    Default Bearbarian

    Hey guys first I'll start off by saying "I know this isn't optimal but its a favor for a freind who wants to play his PnP Bearbarian in DDO so please help me make that a reality" (note: tthis is for a static group so no worries it won't "taint" your perfect pugs)

    He's open to deeper multi-classes but note that the only premium content he has is druid (and a bear cosmetic pet but thats irrelevant) so its limited to mainly the F2P classes/races and 28pt...it is preferable to stick to 18/2 though aqs he is a fairly new player.

    Code:
    Dwarven Barb18/Druid2
    
    Str 18 (Lvl ups here)
    Con 18
    Int 10
    
    Skill: Intim, Balance, Spot 
    
    1 Power Attack
    3 Cleave
    6 Great Cleave
    9 Shield Mastery
    12 Improved Shield Mastery
    15 Least DM of Warding
    18 IC: Bludgeon
    21 Overwhelming Critical
    24 Stunning Blow
    
    F1 Shield Mastery
    Last edited by Failedlegend; 09-14-2013 at 10:45 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

  2. #2
    Hero Paxsmickey's Avatar
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    I love it! I had a plan for a BardBearian, but never managed to get much done with it. I'd skip toughness though (no longer needed for enhancements). If he adds a level of fighter he can fit shield mastery and improved shield mastery and proficiency with tower shields for some great damage resistance in bear form (I assume bear 24/7). If he adds a third level of druid he can access the second core druid enhancement (+5 PRR in bear form), and access to reaving roar, fatal harrier, and another 3 ranks in fight, as well as 2 level 2 druid spells (though raging and casting don't mix too well).

    Hope he loves it,
    -PaxsMickey

  3. #3
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    A druid 2 splash adds quite a bit to melee builds post-U19: Ram's Might, Beguile (until it's nerfed, anyway), Vengeful Hunter, access to Emp Heal feat (combine w/Rejuv Cocoon), Wand & Scroll Mastery, Doublestrike action boost.

    Bear form is not a plus, however. Partly because it's terrible DPS, partly because barb Rage cancels out Reaving Roar / Fatal Harrier, but mostly because...it's terrible DPS.

    If your friend's serious, he should go for at least druid 9 to get Dire Bear + access to Natural Fighting feats. I would try to focus on what bears have going for them, namely PRR & doublestrike.

    What exactly does he want to do with this build, though?
    Revisiting the Classics: Axesinger / Dwarven Defender / Drow Ninja / Drow Paladin / Elven Ranger / Monkcher / Sacred Vanguard
    Other build threads: Cleric Domains / Kundarak Brigade / Iconic Builds
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  4. #4
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paxsmickey View Post
    I love it! I had a plan for a BearBearian, but never managed to get much done with it. I'd skip toughness though (no longer needed for enhancements).
    Yeah I'd only really take toughness on a fighter or monk now if I had the feats to spare i mostly just didn't know what else to take.

    Quote Originally Posted by Paxsmickey View Post
    If he adds a level of fighter he can fit shield mastery and improved shield mastery and proficiency with tower shields for some great damage resistance in bear form (I assume bear 24/7).
    Yeah bear from is pretty much 24/7...didn't think of SM/ISM...but isn't it limited to non-metal shields? Are their alot of those...named wise i mean?

    Actually is there non-metal heavy armor?

    Remember this is assuming primarily F2P content.


    Quote Originally Posted by Paxsmickey View Post
    If he adds a third level of druid he can access the second core druid enhancement (+5 PRR in bear form), and access to reaving roar, fatal harrier, and another 3 ranks in fight, as well as 2 level 2 druid spells (though raging and casting don't mix too well).
    Casting wise would mostly be buffs, I'm not really sure losing the lvl 18 barb abilities are worth it but yeah Lvl 3 in Druid could add some fun stuff.

    Quote Originally Posted by Paxsmickey View Post
    Hope he loves it,
    -PaxsMickey
    Me too I know my Bearbarian was a huge let down when I discovered that the bear/wolf abilities were blocked by rage...I mean no spellcasting makes sense but why cant my raging bear roar...or claw at things?

    I'm hoping just going with a FEW druid levels and not actually planning on using the druid abilities (beyond the long duration buffs like Jump and Longstrider will make the difference.


    Here's my quick mock-up of the Barb16/Druid3/Fighter1 build (not sure the level order though)

    Code:
    Dwarven Barb16-18/Druid2-3/Fighter0-1
    
    Str 18 (Lvl ups here)
    Con 18
    Int 10
    
    Skill: Intim, Balance, Spot 
    
    1 Power Attack
    3 Cleave
    6 Great Cleave
    9 Least DM of Warding
    12 Improved Shield Mastery
    15 IC: Bludgeon
    18 Stunning Blow
    21 Overwhelming Critical
    24 ???
    
    F1 Shield Mastery

    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    A druid 2 splash adds quite a bit to melee builds post-U19: Ram's Might, Beguile (until it's nerfed, anyway), Vengeful Hunter, access to Emp Heal feat (combine w/Rejuv Cocoon), Wand & Scroll Mastery, Doublestrike action boost.
    All of the above FTW (I didn't even think to look into seasons herald)

    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    Bear form is not a plus, however.
    He wants to be a bear..regardless of consequence I've already explained this and he nor the group cares...thats all that matters.


    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    barb Rage cancels out Reaving Roar / Fatal Harrier, but mostly because...it's terrible DPS.
    No it doesn't...just tested it, works fine.

    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    What exactly does he want to do with this build, though?
    A barbarian that can become a bear...this build MUST take at least 2 levels of druid and be in bear form 99% of the time.

    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    If your friend's serious, he should go for at least druid 9 to get Dire Bear + access to Natural Fighting feats. I would try to focus on what bears have going for them, namely PRR & doublestrike.
    I would only make a build like that if the bear attacks actually worked whilst raging (apparently enraged people can't roar or claw at things) I'd like to keep it to only a few druid levels (I'd say 3 max)
    Last edited by Failedlegend; 08-29-2013 at 02:13 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

  5. #5
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Failedlegend View Post
    Yeah bear from is pretty much 24/7...didn't think of SM/ISM...but isn't it limited to non-metal shields? Are their alot of those...named wise i mean?
    There's Wall of Wood; and alchemical shields are crystal, IIRC. Otherwise, it's mostly lootgen wooden ones.
    Actually is there non-metal heavy armor?
    Dragonplate counts as non-metal, since it's...well, made from dragonscale, not metal. And Leaves of the Forest, tho that's med not hvy. Otherwise, again, mostly lootgen leather.
    No it doesn't...just tested it, works fine.
    That is a pleasant surprise, given that Rage used to cancel them out, same way it cancels out defensive stances, IIRC.
    I would only make a build like that if the bear attacks actually worked whilst raging (apparently enraged people can't roar or claw at things) I'd like to keep it to only a few druid levels (I'd say 3 max)
    Base bear dmg is d8 20 x2; dire bear is d12 20 x3. Dire bear is what takes your DPS from "completely terrible" to only "mostly terrible."

    I still say druid 9 should be the minimum on any shapeshifter build; but if that's a no-go, what about druid 8 / barb 12? That gets you dire bear + lvl 12 barb abilities. For feats: Power Atk/CL/GC, Shield Mastery + ISM (8% doublestrike +10 PRR w/hvy shields), IC:Blunt.
    Revisiting the Classics: Axesinger / Dwarven Defender / Drow Ninja / Drow Paladin / Elven Ranger / Monkcher / Sacred Vanguard
    Other build threads: Cleric Domains / Kundarak Brigade / Iconic Builds
    My Build Index: a Motley Menagerie of Original Rapscallions, Pugilists, and Gimps!

  6. #6
    Hero Paxsmickey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    Base bear dmg is d8 20 x2; dire bear is d12 20 x3. Dire bear is what takes your DPS from "completely terrible" to only "mostly terrible."

    I still say druid 9 should be the minimum on any shapeshifter build; but if that's a no-go, what about druid 8 / barb 12? That gets you dire bear + lvl 12 barb abilities. For feats: Power Atk/CL/GC, Shield Mastery + ISM (8% doublestrike +10 PRR w/hvy shields), IC:Blunt.
    Dire Bear will add an extra +2 CON and +5% AC over the regular bear, and increase the damage die as stated above, but by doing so you gain a bunch of spells you can't use while raging, and and lose several nice Barbarian perks (extra rages, tireless rage, and some Damage reduction).

    9 Druid offers natural fighting, but with a 11 Barbarian/9 Druid you are still limited on feats. 9 Barbarian/9 Druid/2 Fighter could potentially give you enough feats, but at the cost of much of your barbarian abilities. Natural fighting adds +6% double strike per feat (up to 3). If you took 1 level of barbarian before your 9 levels of druid the earliest you could take Natural fighting is level 12, so they would essentially become your feats at level 12, 15, and 18. that means you have at most 3 levels of barbarian until level 12, and I think that would detract from the flavor. 2 fighter feats could give the improved critical: B feat, and one of the shield masteries. power attack, cleave, great cleave, and the other shield mastery would be level 1,3,6, and 9 feats. This leaves no room for dragonmarks or stunning blow though.

    I recommend 17 Barbarian for tireless rage, and then either 3 druid or 2 druid and 1 fighter.
    Fighter might be worth it if you intend to use wooden tower shields, but otherwise I think 3 druid is the way to go.
    I agree with Unbongwah's feat selection though. If you really want the dragonmarks you could put off stunning blow, great cleave, or a shield mastery until level 21/24 (but I don't know if you can use earth grab while raging).

    Best of Luck,
    -PaxsMickey
    Last edited by Paxsmickey; 08-29-2013 at 04:24 PM. Reason: 'w' key not working ell

  7. #7
    Community Member thegreatneil's Avatar
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    You don't have any Twf feats that's gonna hurt your dps some.
    Try perhaps:
    Droping ward and toughness ( as a dwarf barb you will plenty of hp)
    Then take all three twf feats.
    You'll bend to my will - With or without your precious sanity.

    Neilus Soul of the Phoenix - Completionist - Orien

    Quote Originally Posted by blerkington View Post
    Everyone who is more effective than me is OP, and should be nerfed.
    Everyone who has more stuff than me cheated to get it, and should be punished.
    Everyone who plays differently to me is a bad person, and should be mistreated.

  8. #8
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paxsmickey View Post
    I recommend 17 Barbarian for tireless rage, and then either 3 druid or 2 druid and 1 fighter.
    Thats pretty much the plan.

    Quote Originally Posted by Paxsmickey View Post
    Fighter might be worth it if you intend to use wooden tower shields, but otherwise I think 3 druid is the way to go.
    I agree with Unbongwah's feat selection though. If you really want the dragonmarks you could put off stunning blow, great cleave, or a shield mastery until level 21/24 (but I don't know if you can use earth grab while raging).
    Yeah I'm thinking of dropping stunning blow in favor of ISM (replacing toughness with sm) as fir the DM I have no idea it it works whilst raging...i'll need to test that.

    Quote Originally Posted by thegreatneil View Post
    You don't have any Twf feats that's gonna hurt your dps some.
    TWF does nothing whilst in bear form
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

  9. #9
    Community Member thegreatneil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Failedlegend View Post

    TWF does nothing whilst in bear form
    Unless they changed it as of U19.1, you better check again.
    You'll bend to my will - With or without your precious sanity.

    Neilus Soul of the Phoenix - Completionist - Orien

    Quote Originally Posted by blerkington View Post
    Everyone who is more effective than me is OP, and should be nerfed.
    Everyone who has more stuff than me cheated to get it, and should be punished.
    Everyone who plays differently to me is a bad person, and should be mistreated.

  10. #10
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thegreatneil View Post
    Unless they changed it as of U19.1, you better check again.
    Nope nothing

    I did confirm that he can't use the Earthgrab during rage (which makes sense) so I may not bother taking the feat.
    Last edited by Failedlegend; 08-29-2013 at 06:02 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

  11. #11
    Community Member thegreatneil's Avatar
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    Default no, really

    http://youtu.be/Watu4qRtK3g (5% double strike)

    http://youtu.be/qJe_pRlyBWM

    This is on lammania, but I have the same build on live currenty. I still get doublestirke from the twf chain. (as of u19.1 8/29/13)
    You'll bend to my will - With or without your precious sanity.

    Neilus Soul of the Phoenix - Completionist - Orien

    Quote Originally Posted by blerkington View Post
    Everyone who is more effective than me is OP, and should be nerfed.
    Everyone who has more stuff than me cheated to get it, and should be punished.
    Everyone who plays differently to me is a bad person, and should be mistreated.

  12. #12
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thegreatneil View Post
    This is on lammania, but I have the same build on live currenty. I still get doublestirke from the twf chain. (as of u19.1 8/29/13)
    Interesting - and possibly not WAI - but since Shield Mastery & Natural Fighting already provide doublestrike, what would be the advantage of having TWF chain? Just to give yourself more versatility in other forms?
    Revisiting the Classics: Axesinger / Dwarven Defender / Drow Ninja / Drow Paladin / Elven Ranger / Monkcher / Sacred Vanguard
    Other build threads: Cleric Domains / Kundarak Brigade / Iconic Builds
    My Build Index: a Motley Menagerie of Original Rapscallions, Pugilists, and Gimps!

  13. #13
    Community Member thegreatneil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    Interesting - and possibly not WAI - but since Shield Mastery & Natural Fighting already provide doublestrike, what would be the advantage of having TWF chain? Just to give yourself more versatility in other forms?
    natural fighting is 6%, so 18% with 3.
    twfi is 80% with all 3.
    Currently I have monk and deft strikes for 90% offhand, this becomes 90% DS in animal form.
    90%>18%
    As for wai, I have no idea...asked the devs on lammania.....nothing from them.
    Have a post on the forums aking the dev about it.......nothing from them.
    someone else has a past about it asking the devs.....and nothing from them about it.
    Last edited by thegreatneil; 08-29-2013 at 09:12 PM.
    You'll bend to my will - With or without your precious sanity.

    Neilus Soul of the Phoenix - Completionist - Orien

    Quote Originally Posted by blerkington View Post
    Everyone who is more effective than me is OP, and should be nerfed.
    Everyone who has more stuff than me cheated to get it, and should be punished.
    Everyone who plays differently to me is a bad person, and should be mistreated.

  14. #14
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    I doubt its WAI so I won't build for it unless the devs confirm it as such
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

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