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  1. #1
    Community Member Havok.cry's Avatar
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    Default Dwarf Melee Artificer

    Was looking at all the new enhancements and realized I could build a dwarf axe artificer with int for to hit and con for damage. Here is what I have come up with so far:


    Artificer 18/Fighter 2 (fighter gives 2 bonus feats, heavy armor, and tower sheilds... might as well have the option of those if you are planning on using a DAxe in my opinion.)


    str 16+tome as needed (qualification for THF feats)
    dex 8
    con 18
    int 16
    wis 8
    cha 8


    Level ups in con or int as you wish. Con will give more melee damage and hp, while int will give you higher to hit, skill points, and DCs.


    feats
    1 power attack
    1a1 rapid reload (free feat, no choice here)
    3 cleave
    4a4 mental toughness
    6 great cleave
    7f1 THF
    8f2 ITHF
    9 quicken
    10a8 Improved mental toughness
    12 Icrit
    14a12 empower healing
    15 GTHF
    18 empower
    18a16 maximize
    21 epic mental toughness

    after that I'm not sure

    Skills
    in no particular order
    search
    disable
    open
    umd
    spellcraft
    heal
    balance and jump as they fit
    whatever else you want

    This is all theory right now, but let me know what you think, or what I'm forgetting.
    Last edited by Havok.cry; 08-28-2013 at 09:00 PM.
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  2. #2
    Community Member voodoogroves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok.cry View Post
    Was looking at all the new enhancements and realized I could build a dwarf axe artificer with int for to hit and con for damage. Here is what I have come up with so far:


    Artificer 18/Fighter 2 (fighter gives 2 bonus feats, heavy armor, and tower sheilds... might as well have the option of those if you are planning on using a DAxe in my opinion.)


    str 16+tome as needed (qualification for THF feats)


    ------SNIP------------

    This is all theory right now, but let me know what you think, or what I'm forgetting.
    Overwhelming Crit needs a 23 STR
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  3. #3
    Community Member Havok.cry's Avatar
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    ah okay, overwhelming crit is probably out then... until they give out +7 tomes
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok.cry View Post
    let me know what you think, or what I'm forgetting.
    Well you cant take Emp Heal with that class layout, for one...and I'm wondering how good your self-healing will be. As a pure fleshie Arti, you'll only have your Admixtures, unless you're cool with being scroll-heal.

    I think Dwarf Arti is a kind of a trap....it sounds good on paper, free D.axes with Axe bonuses, lots of HP and CON....but then when you think about it more:

    -There aren't that many good D.axes to use
    -INT gives Artis so much otherwise, you'd rather have that as your damage stat so you could just pump INT and boost everything
    -A lot of Dwarf requires S&B, which precludes using runearms - that's a lot of DPS left on the table.
    -The +30 HP is the same as the Toughness feat, and Artis aren't feat-starved
    -CON-to-dmg wont work for Xbows, while INT-to-dmg does, so you have a better ranged backup if you stay pure-INT

    If you want to build a good melee Arti, I think you're still best served with a Bastard Sword WF. Still get CON and Toughness for more HP, get full-effect Repair healing, and you can still take:

    PA, Cleave/GC, THFx3, IC:Slash, Prof: BS, Insightful Reflex, Max, Empower and Quicken...if you stay pure Arti. You could also splash a martial class, probably 2 or 3 Barb, for some more bonuses and active attacks and THF boosts. Maybe 2 Rogue, for Evasion (you'll have good Reflex with Insight. Refl.) and some goodies out of Assassin.

  5. #5
    Community Member Havok.cry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by droid327 View Post
    Well you cant take Emp Heal with that class layout, for one...and I'm wondering how good your self-healing will be. As a pure fleshie Arti, you'll only have your Admixtures, unless you're cool with being scroll-heal.
    Ah **** I thought you could... oh well... could replace it with insightful reflexes.

    Quote Originally Posted by droid327 View Post
    -There aren't that many good D.axes to use
    I was planning on using alchemical, unless they give us a new awesome endgame one

    Quote Originally Posted by droid327 View Post
    -INT gives Artis so much otherwise, you'd rather have that as your damage stat so you could just pump INT and boost everything
    I know what you are saying, but con can be boosted alot higher than int, and this is meant primarily to hit things with an axe, and secondarily to do other arti blastiness. My int will be plenty high anyway as I will be boosting it for to hit, and DCs.

    Quote Originally Posted by droid327 View Post
    -A lot of Dwarf requires S&B, which precludes using runearms - that's a lot of DPS left on the table.
    The plan was to switch, as needed, between rune arm and shield

    Quote Originally Posted by droid327 View Post
    -CON-to-dmg wont work for Xbows, while INT-to-dmg does, so you have a better ranged backup if you stay pure-INT
    I had no plan at all to use a repeater. However both spells can be loaded at the same time. One thing though is I don't think my utter lack of dex would let me hit with a repeater that had int to damage, while if I gave that repeater int to hit I probably could at least hit with it.

    Quote Originally Posted by droid327 View Post
    If you want to build a good melee Arti, I think you're still best served with a Bastard Sword WF. Still get CON and Toughness for more HP, get full-effect Repair healing, and you can still take:

    PA, Cleave/GC, THFx3, IC:Slash, Prof: BS, Insightful Reflex, Max, Empower and Quicken...if you stay pure Arti. You could also splash a martial class, probably 2 or 3 Barb, for some more bonuses and active attacks and THF boosts. Maybe 2 Rogue, for Evasion (you'll have good Reflex with Insight. Refl.) and some goodies out of Assassin.
    I was not even trying to compare this to the king of melee arties, and I doubt any alternate stat build will ever be the king of anything. I am mostly just trying to do something different, that is still in the realm of good rather than pathetic.

    One thing that is pretty much not an option for me is following someone else's build. That is simply not very fun. A bajillion other people are doing it. I am happy to take advice, and learn from others, but just doing some other build, just because it is better, isn't really an option for me, personally. There are alot of things in this game that are gonna be better than something I play, but playing a character that I didn't just cut and paste from someone else's build is a lot more satisfying and fun for me. So if you can help me optimize what I have decided to try, that would be awesome
    Last edited by Havok.cry; 08-28-2013 at 11:46 PM.
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  6. #6
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    Alchemical axe works fine I'm sure, yes - wasn't sure what your budget was for this build.

    If your intent is a Dwarf axe fighter who just happens to have some Arti abilities, not trying to find the new FOTM, then that's viable enough...though I'd observe that you don't need to go past Arti 15, to get Deadly Weapons. That gives you 5 levels to play around with in Fighter, so you could go to Tier 5 if you wanted in Fighter enhancements. You wont be spending any points in AT, it sounds like, and probably wont go much deeper into BE than you need to for Haste Boost and D-axe bonuses. Kensei would give you another +4 dam/to-hit and +1 Crit Threat Range, among other things. Stalwart Defender would also give you some nice passive AC/dodge/shield bonuses, though you wouldn't be able to actually take the stance with only 5 Fighter...and it'd grant another Fighter feat, which I'd probably use on Improved Shield Bash.

    Alternatively, you could go 15 Arti/2 Fighter/3 Barb, keep the 2 Fighter bonus feats, and then get Barb Rage for added CON and other goodness in the first 3 tiers of those trees...THF bonuses, some defense from Weapon Bond, and the like.

    Unless that's going too far into my ideas and not your own

  7. #7
    Community Member Havok.cry's Avatar
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    I had been thinking about going fighter 3 for the kensai core ability, and if I go three, I might as well go 4 for the extra feat. I thought that they had decided t5 abilities would require 12 levels in that class? I am not sure how I am going to spend my enhancements yet, and was planning on getting a few things in AT, like the pet enhancements and the critical admixture sla, and the rune arm stuff from BE (I like the idea of not being slowed by the rune arm), but I have no concrete plans yet.

    I don't think I would go barb, as the rage would interfere with casting, and I like self healing. If I go 4 fighter instead of 5, I could go monk for another bonus feat, or bard early on and get a few uses of fascinate songs for situational use. going 16 arti would also give me a bonus feat over 15, and an extra 6th level spell.

    Hmm. thinking about the arti spells has me wondering if the new dwarf greater dragon mark spell is on the same cool-down as the prepared spell? if now being able to keep radiant force-field up for long times might be pretty sweet, and with extra fighter levels I might have some feats to spare... something for me to look into at work tomorrow.

    Another thing I am wondering is if the admixtures count as drinking for that one dwarf enhancement.
    Last edited by Havok.cry; 08-29-2013 at 01:53 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok.cry View Post
    I thought that they had decided t5 abilities would require 12 levels in that class? I am not sure how I am going to spend my enhancements yet, and was planning on getting a few things in AT, like the pet enhancements and the critical admixture sla, and the rune arm stuff from BE (I like the idea of not being slowed by the rune arm), but I have no concrete plans yet.

    Hmm. thinking about the arti spells has me wondering if the new dwarf greater dragon mark spell is on the same cool-down as the prepared spell? if now being able to keep radiant force-field up for long times might be pretty sweet, and with extra fighter levels I might have some feats to spare... something for me to look into at work tomorrow.

    Another thing I am wondering is if the admixtures count as drinking for that one dwarf enhancement.
    Oh true enough about the L12, but you could still go 4 deep. Another 1-class splash to consider would be Druid, which would give you Ram's Might, and access to Empower Heal and Beguile (though its slated for a nerf soon). Or, conversely, Ranger, which again gives Ram's Might, and access to +75 Positive spellpower for your Admixtures (basically a free Empower Heal).

    Don't bother with Pet enhancements, they wont do anything meaningful to upgrade your defender's efficacy, certainly not for the AP it costs. Especially if you take a 4 or 5 splash, your pet will be too woefully under-level, even in Heroic. Critical Admixture also requires 30 points spent in a tree that wont give you much, for your playstyle.

    As far as Runearm stuff, I myself found that its not really worth it to fully invest in the runearm. All the top 3 tiers give you is mobility - if you're standing still whacking at stuff with your axe anyway, it works exactly the same if you just take the first 2 tiers (charge rate and cooldown).

    I'd be pretty sure that the Dragonmark SLA is on a different timer than the spell itself, yes. I'd also be pretty sure that Admixtures do not count as drinking a potion, since you throw it at the ground Also, Critical doesn't even use a potion.
    Last edited by droid327; 08-29-2013 at 03:22 AM.

  9. #9
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    I had wondered about some kind of dwarf artificer using throw your weight around here. But there's not a lot of interest in dwarf builds and it will be even worse once the whole warforged blademaster with sla reconstruct rolls out.

    My solution was a "max con" 15/3/2 artificer/barbarian/rogue; the barbarian is there less for the rages, though you could use them situationally, and more for the extra glancing blow enhancements and blood tribute, which gives +100 temp hp in exchange for -1 CON until the next shrine. I thought that made for an interesting synergy with a max con build that isn't self casting heal or reconstruct, even if only viable through the heroic levels. I could be wrong, I haven't tried it out yet, but shrines are plentiful and the build would have CON to spare. The goal would be to use that "in emergencies" as needed, and otherwise have enough hp and killing power to finish each encounter and scroll heal in between.

    Barbarian also gives cheap 3 extra action boosts and don't forget that you can take the hand and a half line in battle engineer to the top but still take endless fusilade instead of haste boost which can be taken instead from the two rogue levels. So you still have a burst range option in addition to haste boost for melee. You could get that from 2 fighter too, so it's mostly down to whether you want evasion or two feats.

    I don't think you should plan on using a shield, at all. You can take dwarf enhancements up to TYWA without needing any shield filler enhancements.

    Also, although they improved the dragonmark system, it is still pretty weak. If you take that line you'd end up with only 5-6 uses of the radiant sla (lasts only 22 seconds iirc), and only 4 of the earthgrab. As fun as earthgrab is on a high CON build, that's hardly worth spending a feat and more precious ap on. If only they'd made the dragonmark sla use sp with a cooldown, or regen uses, then maybe dwarf could have become something more attractive aside from flavor.

    CON focused, starting stats 15/13/19/16/8/6:
    19 con + 5 levels + 2 dwarf enhancements +2 tome = 28
    16 int + 2 tome = 18

    INT focused, starting stats 15/13/18/17/8/6:
    18 con + 2 dwarf enhancement +2 tome = 22
    17 int + 2 tome + 5 levels = 24

    Anyway I like the idea of doing something different, non-fotm, but still viable. Dwarven artificer lorewise should have been a very attractive option but whatever, Turbine is not loving dwarves.

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    Intriguing build.
    Does Insightful Strikes work in a weapon+shield setup?
    Arcanotechnician's SLAs between the Cleaves might work quite nicely as well.

    The nice about this build is that all you REALLY need is Dwarf Artificer 3, high Int and Con. Any other potential synergies to be discovered? How to leverage the high int?

  11. #11
    Community Member Havok.cry's Avatar
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    Class splits I'm going to look at at work today (if anyone wants to take a look at them and give me pointers before I post the next incarnation of this build):
    20 arti - full RA and pet
    15 arti/4 fighter/1 ranger-extra feats, most of fighter trees and almost free 75 positive spell power
    15 arti/4 fighter/1 monk-even more extra feats
    17 arti/1 ranger/2 monk-positive spell power, extra feats, evasion (I prefer splashing monk for arti evasion just cause I think it gives me more than rogue on an arti)

    I will also look harder at barb splits, but I am really not sold on them yet, so we'll see.
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    Community Member Havok.cry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hit_fido View Post
    CON focused, starting stats 15/13/19/16/8/6:
    19 con + 5 levels + 2 dwarf enhancements +2 tome = 28
    16 int + 2 tome = 18

    INT focused, starting stats 15/13/18/17/8/6:
    18 con + 2 dwarf enhancement +2 tome = 22
    17 int + 2 tome + 5 levels = 24

    Anyway I like the idea of doing something different, non-fotm, but still viable. Dwarven artificer lorewise should have been a very attractive option but whatever, Turbine is not loving dwarves.
    Two things: are those stats 32 points? That is what I am working with right now, and I think you used too many there.

    The second is: what does fotm stand for? I get the general gist of it, but I'm wondering what it actually means lol.
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    flavor of the month

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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok.cry View Post
    Two things: are those stats 32 points? That is what I am working with right now, and I think you used too many there.
    36. With +3 tomes you could start STR at 14 for two less build points and still qualify for the full thf line, then just lose 2 more build points elsewhere for 32 pt.

    Problem with monk is you'll never be centered with a rune arm, so it gets back to being only about the extra feat(s) and evasion if you have 2 monk. I didn't feel like I'd run out of feat slots up to 20:

    free: rapid reload
    7 standard feats: thf, ithf, gthf, power attack, cleave, great cleave, ic: slashing
    3 artificer feats: point blank shot, precise shot, rapid shot

    So, no improved precise shot but you're looking at a melee artificer anyway?

    Lots of potentially fun ways to fill out the other 5 levels though...

  15. #15
    Community Member Havok.cry's Avatar
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    If I do go barbarian, can I take supreme cleave without taking cleave/greatcleave?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok.cry View Post
    If I do go barbarian, can I take supreme cleave without taking cleave/greatcleave?
    Based on that enhancement PDF, which the latest version has seemed to me very accurate, there are no feat prereqs for supreme cleave. So - based on the PDF - yes.

    I think you'd want all three though; with glancing blows from daxe and the rune arm effect added on, seems like rotating three cleaves would be very nice. Get into your legendary dreadnought tree and add momentum swing and lay waste and you'll probably always have at least one aoe attack off cooldown.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hit_fido View Post
    3 artificer feats: point blank shot, precise shot, rapid shot
    I think you mean IC: Slashing (that's a Class feat for Artis now, isn't it?), Emp and Max, taking Insightful Reflex instead of IC in your normal 7.

    There's no reason a fulltime melee arti is going to want to spend 3 ranged feats...

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    Quote Originally Posted by droid327 View Post
    I think you mean IC: Slashing (that's a Class feat for Artis now, isn't it?), Emp and Max, taking Insightful Reflex instead of IC in your normal 7.

    There's no reason a fulltime melee arti is going to want to spend 3 ranged feats...
    I didn't think ic: slash was an artificer bonus feat? But you can change those around as you see fit. My reasoning was at only 15 levels, the single level 6 spell will be deadly weapons, and it would be more likely that the character would range mobs sometimes with crossbow/runearm than cast offensive spells. My enhancement list didn't include any arcanotechnician slas but that may be pre-u19 thinking and those are must haves now with free metas?

    If going the "max con" route, the difference insightful reflexes would make seemed negligible - starting 13 dex, 16 int and assuming you still gear for both stats.

    Disclaimer: this is all guesswork, haven't tried out any melee artificer yet. Still looking for any really promising ways to build an interesting (non cookie cutter) dwarf character that can stand out from other races.

  19. #19
    Community Member Havok.cry's Avatar
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    I would go with quicken/max/empower over ranged feats for the admixtures not the offensive spells. Offensive spells would be a secondary consideration.
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