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  1. #41
    Community Member taurean430's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    This build has more endgame potential than what I posted for str score. I posted what a newbie can expect to have fairly easily by the time they get to 20. Simply rocking a +5 tome on str and cha gets ~4-5 more points of str. Going from 7-10 on the stat items adds another ~4 str. I haven't touched any of the potions, or maxed out the insightful + exceptional etc.

    Not taking as many fighter enhancements can also mean more warchanter stuff, where the + to damage is hidden on the songs.

    I do like fighter multiclasses as well though. They grant feats, and 4 levels means opening most of the tree, where plusses to damage can be found.
    Understood. I like the original build you posted and didn't want to give the impression that I'm critical of it in any way. I am playing with class splits currently in a big way though. Pre enhancement pass I was satisfied with my main bard's build. However, I am still experimenting quite a bit with different levels/class splits since the pass. I've not decided for sure what I like yet. And the original split in your first post sparked my curiosity.
    Khyber: Evandus, Halfdeadd, Licoricewhip, Sawyn, Elkabongg, Brothanumsi, Soulbro, Cromix.
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  2. #42
    Community Member Thud's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by taurean430 View Post
    I haven't gone back to Elka's original configuration since the enhancement pass. I've only been playing with different class combinations trying to sort out what I like. However, your post is using a 57 str (23 mod). Old config for Elka was str 74 buffed up (32 mod). Now, if I went back to that baseline config and added a class split which gains divine might (charisma 34), I'm looking at a possible +9 to str. That would lead to str 83 (36 mod). Depending on how I'd rebuild him I could be looking at evening that out to 84 or 86.

    So basically, in theory (Not testing atm), going human -15 bard, 4 fighter, 1 cleric with my melee bard could gain two additional feats in addition to what I mentioned earlier. Plus access to a few of the Kensai abilities.

    I suppose I was thinking that having some hjealing amp cure crit or cocoon negates needing heal as a spell. And the level draining effect of wail, although attractive, falls to the wayside as well with increased personal dps. It's why I was asking about the split. I'm curious about the rationale for when I get around to trying a new configuration on my heavy metal singer.
    I am very interested in this build for my bard life on my eSoS toon. I'm starting to build it now. I'm thinking:
    Str 18, con 16, int 12, chr 14.
    Quicken
    Empower healing
    Toughness
    PA
    THF
    ITHF
    GTHF
    Cleave
    GreateCleave
    IC:Slash
    Epic toughness (+5 con tome)
    OC
    Now, off to the planner to see when to take what levels and feats.
    If you have any advice...

    Not trying to hijack your thread OP. You have a nice build too
    Last edited by Thud; 11-14-2013 at 10:54 AM.
    Groz, Almostthere, Medicant and Harvezzt. Argo RULES!

  3. #43
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    Would this work okay with a 32 point HOrc? I tried putting it into CharGen and it seems to work out if str and wis start at 15, but I'm far from expert at working out builds.

  4. #44
    Community Member Ailaesaedol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Earthy104 View Post
    Would this work okay with a 32 point HOrc? I tried putting it into CharGen and it seems to work out if str and wis start at 15, but I'm far from expert at working out builds.
    Im guessing you meant CHA instead of WIS to start at 15? Horcs get a -2 to CHA but a +2 to STR. From the look of Chai's build, I'd try and have a STR of about 18, Con of 16, and CHA of 14 on a Horc. The two points left over into INT (skill points). Wis is dumped completely due to the Force of Personality feat.

    I might be blind, but it doesnt look as though Chai has included his Fighter bonus feat, so you should be able to select all the feats listed despite missing out on the human bonus feat as a Horc.

  5. #45
    Community Member Quetzacoala's Avatar
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    Thank you very much for taking the time to post this build, as it has been very helpful in my recent attempts at creating a bard and has helped me better understand the class.

    However, I do have one question. How viable would it be to replace the level of cleric with a level of wizard? Would the extra feat make up for heal as a class skill and divine might?
    Quote Originally Posted by DeafeningWhisper View Post
    I agree with the feathered marsupial.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quetzacoala View Post
    However, I do have one question. How viable would it be to replace the level of cleric with a level of wizard? Would the extra feat make up for heal as a class skill and divine might?
    I think you'd lose quite a bit more than you'd gain by swapping out the cleric level for wizard. The strength increase from divine might is actually a huge boost.

  7. #47
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    This works well as a sun elf iconic maul user. Been playing that on a new server. Damage increases to maul, built in deathward+SR buff, and morninglord iconic requires taking one cleric level, so no need to LR the level off, since its in the build.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  8. #48
    Community Member smckelv's Avatar
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    I've got a THF Str-based Bard 16/Fight 2/Rogue 2 on 2nd life (past life pally). 34 points and a ton of melee gear. The build was pre-u19 but still seems to be ok-ish. But I'm thinking about your split posted (OP) of 18/1/1. Anyone have thoughts on my losing rogue evade (it actually does proc on epic, though it isn't EE caliber save). Or if gaining the 2 levels of Bard helped be more bard-like? I realize this is not a CC build, but so far I haven't had any luck at all CCing epic at all without being in fatesinger ed yet @lvl 23.

    Any comments appreciated.
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    Anatir the Wild Man - Pure Barbarian
    Baldornix Magnus - Paladin 1st Life, Bard 2nd Life
    Cannith

  9. #49
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smckelv View Post
    I've got a THF Str-based Bard 16/Fight 2/Rogue 2 on 2nd life (past life pally). 34 points and a ton of melee gear. The build was pre-u19 but still seems to be ok-ish. But I'm thinking about your split posted (OP) of 18/1/1. Anyone have thoughts on my losing rogue evade (it actually does proc on epic, though it isn't EE caliber save). Or if gaining the 2 levels of Bard helped be more bard-like? I realize this is not a CC build, but so far I haven't had any luck at all CCing epic at all without being in fatesinger ed yet @lvl 23.

    Any comments appreciated.
    16 bard -vs- 18 bard doesnt make you too much more bard like as enhancements are front loaded, and mass suggestion song is cha based for DC purposes. Ive seen 16 bard 2 ftr 2 cleric builds as well, for DVing other casters, as well as tactic DCs.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  10. #50
    Community Member smckelv's Avatar
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    Honestly, re: tactics DC on a bard build. I have personally seen an experienced guildie build a stunning bard to DC 64. That stopped working at mob level 27 unfortunately (EE). My other car is a stunning barbarian who pushes 80 might self buffed and the second level fighter enhancement does add +3 to DC for stunning, trip. His buffed stunning DC goes to 70 which gets back in the EE game at highest levels. I don't think a bard build can quite do that and it doesn't need to if it can otto's irresistible + fascinate.

    Still....every time I see one of those underdark drow pop a blue spell resist, I wish I could pop a stunning blow on their non-dancing self. Or how does a str build improve spell pen for otto's without a re-roll?

    In my experience, a tactics/str bard can only go so far doing stunning in epic and then there is a DC wall. 60 fort DC for eGH, 70 for the storm horns. These are not minimums but they are numbers you can count on for most rolls.
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    Baldornix Magnus - Paladin 1st Life, Bard 2nd Life
    Cannith

  11. #51
    Bacon Queen MadCookieQueen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smckelv View Post

    In my experience, a tactics/str bard can only go so far doing stunning in epic and then there is a DC wall. 60 fort DC for eGH, 70 for the storm horns. These are not minimums but they are numbers you can count on for most rolls.

    Funny my bard has no issues with stunning blow:

    Stunning Blow DC: 71/74 (73/76 with shaken) – (10 base + 35/38 Str +5 exc combat mastery +10 stunning +2 feat +6 legendary tactics +3 Ftr PL / +2 injury [shaken])

    so it's completely viable to have a Str/tactics Bard ^^

  12. #52
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadCookieQueen View Post
    Funny my bard has no issues with stunning blow:

    Stunning Blow DC: 71/74 (73/76 with shaken) – (10 base + 35/38 Str +5 exc combat mastery +10 stunning +2 feat +6 legendary tactics +3 Ftr PL / +2 injury [shaken])

    so it's completely viable to have a Str/tactics Bard ^^
    This.

    The breakdowns I put in the OP are for what any new player can reasonably expect when they hit 20-21.

    At endgame the str total, and SB-DC can compete.

    Add in 3 more for dwarf / warforged, and 3 more for 2 fighter levels if trying to max out SB. The fascinate song can also debuff mobs with -2 using haunting melody.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  13. #53
    Community Member smckelv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadCookieQueen View Post
    Funny my bard has no issues with stunning blow:

    Stunning Blow DC: 71/74 (73/76 with shaken) – (10 base + 35/38 Str +5 exc combat mastery +10 stunning +2 feat +6 legendary tactics +3 Ftr PL / +2 injury [shaken])

    so it's completely viable to have a Str/tactics Bard ^^
    I don't intend to derail, but I am curious about the STR +38 mod and its breakdown. I like the idea of mini-maxing a stunner focused build with fighter past lives, half orc str, pumping eds with str, epic str feats, etc. My poor excuse for game knowledge may be at cause, but it seems high for a bard. But more to the point....what is the max strength score a Bard with at least 15/16 levels could expect at endgame?
    -------------------
    Anatir the Wild Man - Pure Barbarian
    Baldornix Magnus - Paladin 1st Life, Bard 2nd Life
    Cannith

  14. #54

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    Quote Originally Posted by smckelv View Post
    I don't intend to derail, but I am curious about the STR +38 mod and its breakdown. I like the idea of mini-maxing a stunner focused build with fighter past lives, half orc str, pumping eds with str, epic str feats, etc. My poor excuse for game knowledge may be at cause, but it seems high for a bard. But more to the point....what is the max strength score a Bard with at least 15/16 levels could expect at endgame?
    The 1 cleric level gives you divine might, which adds your charisma modifier to strength. A bard's charisma modifier can be quite high.

  15. #55
    Community Member smckelv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    The 1 cleric level gives you divine might, which adds your charisma modifier to strength. A bard's charisma modifier can be quite high.
    That math works perfectly, wow....my eyes are opened.
    +1
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    Anatir the Wild Man - Pure Barbarian
    Baldornix Magnus - Paladin 1st Life, Bard 2nd Life
    Cannith

  16. #56
    Community Member Arianka's Avatar
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    65 stnning blow dc AND 70 trip dc are great for a melee bard. gotta use heavy deneith chain and ee giants fist though. that's with just a 54 str btw.

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