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  1. #21
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    This is quite cool.

    I'm considering respeccing my outdated bard into a 32p variant of this, with 1 cleric and 2 ranger. Ranger for the +75 pos spellpower from DWS and some archery feats replacing the cleave/OC line, to be able to take Manyshot for pew pew burst damage and for some variety (I already have two cleavers/blitzers and I'm not sure I want another one). Probably won't take Force of Personality, I usually find that between FoM, Prot from Evil wands and Good Hope (to remove crushing despairs) the lowish Will saves aren't that much of an issue.

    I'm also thinking of going with Empower Healing Spell instead of Maximize, mostly to boost my Cocoon and to spend less mana on cure spells (with the Ranger pos spell power and a devotion slotted somewhere they should still heal a fair amount). Maximize doesn't seem to boost Chord of Disruption. It does seem to boost Dirge but losing that doesn't bother me so much. Am I missing anything else that's important and benefits from Maximize?

    Not sure I can live without Extend, either. I really like my extended Hastes, Displacements and Rages.
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  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Micron View Post
    Probably won't take Force of Personality, I usually find that between FoM, Prot from Evil wands and Good Hope (to remove crushing despairs) the lowish Will saves aren't that much of an issue.
    For the most part it works fine. The only thing my low-will ranger gets annoyed by is dancing ball, which originally seemed to just be in a few cannith challenges but then crept into MotU with the yugoloths. (Who are also the mobs that cast it in the challenges.) Still not a huge issue, though.

  3. #23
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Micron View Post
    This is quite cool.

    I'm considering respeccing my outdated bard into a 32p variant of this, with 1 cleric and 2 ranger. Ranger for the +75 pos spellpower from DWS and some archery feats replacing the cleave/OC line, to be able to take Manyshot for pew pew burst damage and for some variety (I already have two cleavers/blitzers and I'm not sure I want another one). Probably won't take Force of Personality, I usually find that between FoM, Prot from Evil wands and Good Hope (to remove crushing despairs) the lowish Will saves aren't that much of an issue.

    I'm also thinking of going with Empower Healing Spell instead of Maximize, mostly to boost my Cocoon and to spend less mana on cure spells (with the Ranger pos spell power and a devotion slotted somewhere they should still heal a fair amount). Maximize doesn't seem to boost Chord of Disruption. It does seem to boost Dirge but losing that doesn't bother me so much. Am I missing anything else that's important and benefits from Maximize?

    Not sure I can live without Extend, either. I really like my extended Hastes, Displacements and Rages.
    Maximize makes cures higher values, its only halved for heal and mass heal, cures still get full benefit. With cocoon twisted empower heal might be the better option.

    FOP makes it so no wisdom development is really needed and cha can be more focused on with gear as it synergizes with divine might/bard DCs, and now will save. If you can metagame around getting CCd, then you might find more value using the slot for something else.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  4. #24
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    wheres the enchantments??

    there's 10 points u got to spend in war chanter to get to that +1 str enhancement and you didn't say what you got, and it has been a few days since you made your original post and no picture.

    What levels do you take cleric and fighter?

    What are the first 2 spells you get for bard?

    This is supposed to be a guide that's new player friendly and it is not, in fact a new player would not know what to do besides how to create their character at character creation.

    Please fix the post appropriately using this constructive criticism.

  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    Maximize makes cures higher values, its only halved for heal and mass heal, cures still get full benefit. With cocoon twisted empower heal might be the better option.
    You're thinking of devotion. Maximize can't be used on heal or mass heal at all because those spells have no die roll.

    Which is kind of an odd carryover. As i understand it, in PnP, maximize gives you the max roll on your damage. So if you do 3d6 damage normally, with maximize you do 18 damage. So it makes sense that it doesn't work on spells that have no roll.

    But DDO doesn't work like that, so I'm not sure there's any logical reason that maximize and empower shouldn't work on heal and reconstruct. Much like how I don't think there's any logical reason why positive spell power only counts for half on heal and reconstruct.

  6. #26
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jgizle View Post
    wheres the enchantments??

    there's 10 points u got to spend in war chanter to get to that +1 str enhancement and you didn't say what you got, and it has been a few days since you made your original post and no picture.

    What levels do you take cleric and fighter?

    What are the first 2 spells you get for bard?

    This is supposed to be a guide that's new player friendly and it is not, in fact a new player would not know what to do besides how to create their character at character creation.

    Please fix the post appropriately using this constructive criticism.
    Level order: I recommend 1bard, 1fighter, 1cleric, rest bard.

    Warchanter: I took scaldik rage, fighting spirit, song of heroism for core abilities. The Poetic Edda 3, Enchant weapon (2 points), Action boost sprint.

    The beautiful thing about enhancements is this class split works for multiple enhancement tree builds. Someone could decide they want to be more warchanter and less spellsinger and fill up the warchanter tree - I like to be more spellsinger while dabbling in warchanter. So a brand new player would have a hard time going wrong in either tree. That being said, Ill update with what I took when I have access.

    Just added enhancements to the OP.
    Last edited by Chai; 09-16-2013 at 08:53 PM.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    Level order: I recommend 1bard, 1fighter, 1cleric, rest bard.

    Warchanter: I took scaldik rage, fighting spirit, song of heroism for core abilities. The Poetic Edda 3, Enchant weapon (2 points), Action boost sprint.

    The beautiful thing about enhancements is this class split works for multiple enhancement tree builds. Someone could decide they want to be more warchanter and less spellsinger and fill up the warchanter tree - I like to be more spellsinger while dabbling in warchanter. So a brand new player would have a hard time going wrong in either tree. That being said, Ill update with what I took when I have access.

    Just added enhancements to the OP.
    Before I left, I was planning a 2HF Virtuoso build - coming back to the revamp, I saw this thread and began planning, only to realise that to get more or less what I wanted, I needed at least 35 in Spellsinger, 31 in Warchanter, 3 in Warpriest, and didn't have enough to go for the racial enhancements I'd originally planned. I wish there was a Virtuoso tree.

  8. #28
    Community Member Aerendil's Avatar
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    Regarding enhancements, why not go the WC route to obtain the T5 abilities, notably howl of the north, armorer and the martial weapon damage boost?

    As you're mostly going to focus on melee, the higher crits (from HoTW) and better AC (from medium armour) seem better suited than Capering, no?

  9. #29
    Community Member voodoogroves's Avatar
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    It isn't for Capering, it's for Spellsong Vigor.
    Ghallanda - now with fewer alts and more ghostbane

  10. #30
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aerendil View Post
    Regarding enhancements, why not go the WC route to obtain the T5 abilities, notably howl of the north, armorer and the martial weapon damage boost?

    As you're mostly going to focus on melee, the higher crits (from HoTW) and better AC (from medium armour) seem better suited than Capering, no?
    The utility and efficiency gained by having mana always coming in outweighs a few points per hit in damage. The focus is to keep the entire party going, while contributing considerably in melee during times between buffing, which is most of the quest.

    People can make those decisions and still build off the same class split, in order to suit specific play style preferences. I am finding that with some of the abilities people build for requiring some mana to use - even the stuff melee will build for like cocoon etc...that just about everyone nowdays appreciates mana ticking back into their spell point pool regularly.
    Last edited by Chai; 10-24-2013 at 02:40 PM.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Micron View Post
    This is quite cool.

    I'm considering respeccing my outdated bard into a 32p variant of this, with 1 cleric and 2 ranger. Ranger for the +75 pos spellpower from DWS
    how do you get 75 spell power from DWS? with 2 levels of ranger, the only ones I see are +10 from 1 core, +12 from 3 levels of improved empathy and +8 from 2 levels of improved empathy.


    edit -- never mind, found where the beta version of the enhancement pass had the +75 sp for DWS but got changed in the live version.
    Last edited by kendo; 11-02-2013 at 08:52 AM.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by kendo View Post
    how do you get 75 spell power from DWS? with 2 levels of ranger, the only ones I see are +10 from 1 core, +12 from 3 levels of improved empathy and +8 from 2 levels of improved empathy.


    edit -- never mind, found where the beta version of the enhancement pass had the +75 sp for DWS but got changed in the live version.

    Live actually was +75, but it was recently nerfed quite hard. Still a decent amount for builds with lots of ranger, but making that R splash a little less powerful sadly.

    Just adding info for completeness.

  13. #33
    Community Member taurean430's Avatar
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    Chai,

    I'm assuming that you went 18 bard for access to spellsong vigor? If not, you are missing out on some really nice str boosters by stopping at bard 15.
    Khyber: Evandus, Halfdeadd, Licoricewhip, Sawyn, Elkabongg, Brothanumsi, Soulbro, Cromix.
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  14. #34
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by taurean430 View Post
    Chai,

    I'm assuming that you went 18 bard for access to spellsong vigor? If not, you are missing out on some really nice str boosters by stopping at bard 15.
    Stopping at bard 15 loses level 6 spells. What are you specifically gaining in return for stopping at bard 15?
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  15. #35
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    Bards get the Inspire Heroics song at level 15. It is the prerequisite for epic feat Inspire Excellence. Or what was the question?

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by cru121 View Post
    Bards get the Inspire Heroics song at level 15. It is the prerequisite for epic feat Inspire Excellence. Or what was the question?
    Nah, you're a bit perpendicular to Chai's point.

    Bard 16 gets OID. What are you getting in return for losing that?
    Ghallanda - now with fewer alts and more ghostbane

  17. #37
    Community Member taurean430's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    Stopping at bard 15 loses level 6 spells. What are you specifically gaining in return for stopping at bard 15?
    Level 6 spells (none of which I find to be must have) vs. significantly higher Str mod with ESOS/Cleaver.
    Fascinate about the same in both builds.
    More HP, Better saves with different configuration.
    Higher dps.
    Khyber: Evandus, Halfdeadd, Licoricewhip, Sawyn, Elkabongg, Brothanumsi, Soulbro, Cromix.
    And an army of gimp experiments!

  18. #38
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by taurean430 View Post
    Level 6 spells (none of which I find to be must have) vs. significantly higher Str mod with ESOS/Cleaver.
    How?

    Where is this significantly higher str mod coming from?
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  19. #39
    Community Member taurean430's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    How?

    Where is this significantly higher str mod coming from?
    I haven't gone back to Elka's original configuration since the enhancement pass. I've only been playing with different class combinations trying to sort out what I like. However, your post is using a 57 str (23 mod). Old config for Elka was str 74 buffed up (32 mod). Now, if I went back to that baseline config and added a class split which gains divine might (charisma 34), I'm looking at a possible +9 to str. That would lead to str 83 (36 mod). Depending on how I'd rebuild him I could be looking at evening that out to 84 or 86.

    So basically, in theory (Not testing atm), going human -15 bard, 4 fighter, 1 cleric with my melee bard could gain two additional feats in addition to what I mentioned earlier. Plus access to a few of the Kensai abilities.

    I suppose I was thinking that having some hjealing amp cure crit or cocoon negates needing heal as a spell. And the level draining effect of wail, although attractive, falls to the wayside as well with increased personal dps. It's why I was asking about the split. I'm curious about the rationale for when I get around to trying a new configuration on my heavy metal singer.
    Khyber: Evandus, Halfdeadd, Licoricewhip, Sawyn, Elkabongg, Brothanumsi, Soulbro, Cromix.
    And an army of gimp experiments!

  20. #40
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by taurean430 View Post
    I haven't gone back to Elka's original configuration since the enhancement pass. I've only been playing with different class combinations trying to sort out what I like. However, your post is using a 57 str (23 mod). Old config for Elka was str 74 buffed up (32 mod). Now, if I went back to that baseline config and added a class split which gains divine might (charisma 34), I'm looking at a possible +9 to str. That would lead to str 83 (36 mod). Depending on how I'd rebuild him I could be looking at evening that out to 84 or 86.

    So basically, in theory (Not testing atm), going human -15 bard, 4 fighter, 1 cleric with my melee bard could gain two additional feats in addition to what I mentioned earlier. Plus access to a few of the Kensai abilities.

    I suppose I was thinking that having some hjealing amp cure crit or cocoon negates needing heal as a spell. And the level draining effect of wail, although attractive, falls to the wayside as well with increased personal dps. It's why I was asking about the split. I'm curious about the rationale for when I get around to trying a new configuration on my heavy metal singer.
    This build has more endgame potential than what I posted for str score. I posted what a newbie can expect to have fairly easily by the time they get to 20. Simply rocking a +5 tome on str and cha gets ~4-5 more points of str. Going from 7-10 on the stat items adds another ~4 str. I haven't touched any of the potions, or maxed out the insightful + exceptional etc.

    Not taking as many fighter enhancements can also mean more warchanter stuff, where the + to damage is hidden on the songs.

    I do like fighter multiclasses as well though. They grant feats, and 4 levels means opening most of the tree, where plusses to damage can be found.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

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