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  1. #1
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Default Str based THF melee bard. New Player Friendly.

    The guitarrist who pumps iron in his off time, and you got two tickets to the gun show!!!

    Human 18 bard 1 clr 1 ftr
    32 points. If using 28 points, take a point out of str and cha and start at 15 each.

    str 16
    dex 8
    con 16
    int 10
    wis 8
    cha 16

    Skills: Concentration, bluff, heal, balance, UMD, perform. Toss anything extra into diplo, a few into tumble.

    Feats:
    1 (human) power attack
    1 force of personality (cha to will saves)
    3 cleave
    6 great cleave
    9 quicken
    12 improved crit
    15 maximize / empower heal
    18 Heres where you can choose from a plethora of feats. Dragonmark of finding for chest buffing for instance. Empower heal for higher numbers on cure spells. Skill focus UMD if your gear + cha mod doesnt add up to ~40. Can always be swapped out later on.
    21. inspire excellence
    24. overwhelming critical.

    Str breakdown @ level 20 realistic for newer player. 16 start + 5 level ups + 7 item + 2 tome +1 race +1 warchanter line = 32.

    Cha breakdown @ level 20 realistic for newer player. 16 start + 7 item + 2 spellsinger line + 2 tome +1 race + 2 inspire excellence = 30 (+10 mod)

    Str breakdown

    32 - as above with items and tome
    10 - divine might from cleric enhancements
    4 - skaldic rage from warchanter line
    2 - inspire excellence song (at level 21)
    2 - rage buff
    4 - tensers transformation buff (can scroll this with UMD)
    -------------------------------------
    54 str. buffed
    3 rage buff when in fury of the wild destiny (tier one rage buff, can be twisted as well - adds 5 but doesnt stack w/ rage spell)
    --------------------------------------
    57 - by level 21 - with realistically obtainable gear. Alot of these rage buffs add to con as well, so HP arent an issue. You still have the ability to cast all spells, heal yourself, and all the utility of a bard with song buffs etc....with an impressive str score and feats to back it all up with.

    Destinies. Fury when DPS. Fatesinger for utility and CC. Legendary Dreadnaught for soloing.

    As far as enhancements, you are not nailed down to having to take the exact same thing I did. I went more spellsinger, and you could go more warchanter for instance, depending on how you like to play. Since this class split works for multiple enhancement builds, what I took is more of a guide rather than a rulebook.

    Enhancements I took are as follows.

    All spellsinger core up to level 18.
    3 Lingering song
    3 Musical studies (I like more songs) - this is currently not adding more songs however, and if it stays that way much longer I might switch it out.
    3 haunting melody.
    3 flicker
    Enthrallment, Sustaining song, Song of capering
    Spellsong trance, song of arcane might, spellsong vigor
    Both cha points
    Advanced musical studies (I like more songs) - this is currently not adding more songs however, and if it stays that way much longer I might switch it out.
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Scaldik rage
    Fighting spirit
    Song of heroism
    3 The Poetic Edda
    Enchant weapon
    3 Action boost sprint
    Strength
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    First core in kensai
    Kensai haste boost
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    First core in cleric protection
    3 Divine Might
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    First core in radiant servant
    3 Wand mastery (taking this in bard means paying 3 for wand DCs. /barf --- take it in cleric instead.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Human damage boost
    Strength point
    Human skill boost
    Constitution point (this evened me off)
    Improved recovery
    Last edited by Chai; 09-16-2013 at 08:49 PM.

  2. #2
    Community Member mezzorco's Avatar
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    You gain +10STR from Divine Might, thanks to +2 CHA from Inspire Excellence.
    Anyway, it looks fun.
    With such a STR, maybe you could consider Stunning Blow.

  3. #3
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    Why quicken and maximize?

    Also, are you going to be hurting for spellpoints/power with that 8 int?

  4. #4
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scrag View Post
    Why quicken and maximize?

    Also, are you going to be hurting for spellpoints/power with that 8 int?
    10 int + 1 more point per level for human race (and +2 tome kicking in at level 7) gets you the skills I mentioned - spell points end up being right around 1k at level 20. Quicken and maximise for ability to heal 250+ points uninterrupted in the midst of battle per use of CCW + CSW. Heal is a class skill with the cleric level, so can put 23 ranks into it. I didnt take spellcraft, due to not using offensive casting. With mana song Im not at risk of running out of mana.

    Quote Originally Posted by mezzorco View Post
    You gain +10STR from Divine Might, thanks to +2 CHA from Inspire Excellence.
    Anyway, it looks fun.
    With such a STR, maybe you could consider Stunning Blow.
    Indeed, Ill add that. Stunning blow would make a good feat for 18th, or one could shift the feats around and work it in earlier. Dc would be:

    10 start
    23 str mod at 57 str
    10 daze weapon that adds +10 (there are weapons now that add more)
    5 combat mastery
    -------------------------------------------------
    48 - good for heroics, and normal and hard content while leveling in epics - can get more plusses from destinies, higher str items and cha items (as this adds to str with DM)
    Last edited by Chai; 08-28-2013 at 03:32 PM.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  5. #5
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    Does the great cleave thing only affect unarmed combat? So this can be a female human?
    Last edited by Whitering; 08-28-2013 at 01:57 PM.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scrag View Post
    Why quicken and maximize?

    Also, are you going to be hurting for spellpoints/power with that 8 int?
    Um, it's a bard. Spellpoints come from cha, right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    Human 18 bard 1 clr 1 ftr

    Skills: Concentration, bluff, heal, balance, UMD, perform. Toss anything extra into diplo, a few into tumble.

    Feats:
    1 (human) power attack
    1 force of personality (cha to will saves)
    3 cleave
    6 great cleave
    9 quicken
    12 improved crit
    15 maximize
    18 Heres where you can choose from a plethora of feats. Dragonmark of finding for chest buffing for instance. Empower heal for higher numbers on cure spells. Skill focus UMD if your gear + cha mod doesnt add up to ~40. Can always be swapped out later on.
    21. inspire excellence
    24. overwhelming critical.
    Um.

    Leveling order? And, that bonus feat at the fighter level, whenever it is? (That the stunning blow then?)

    If it were my build I'd probably take ftr at 2, you can get by in Korthos without martial proficiencies OR master's touch but, well...

    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    **Will put up the enhancements I took once I get home and can screenshot it. It includes Divine Might from cleric tree, Wand/scroll mastery from cleric, Skaldic Rage and +1 str from warchanter, All core in spellsinger up to level 18, All of the types of songs in spellsinger, and both points of Cha in spellsinger.
    Hm. I see this is sort of a different build than what I'm looking for.

    I'm sort of looking for a replacement build for tihocan't "revisited path" Warchanter (bard w/ 1ftr&1barb), I have one of those and... well, it's been doing fairly well so far, even up to some tanking in short bursts with the new enhancements. Yours is slightly less melee, apparently? (Heh. I do prefer having at least medium armor for melee, especially without evasion.)

    That old warchanter build will have to be reworked anyway when the enhancement changes are actually finished. As in, when the stated intention of barb and skaldic rages not stacking actually happens. I only swapped WF for Cleave, so far. (And of course no quicken or much concentration because of no casting in barbarian or triple rage anyway, and...)

    In the old build plan, there was just the THF line but no Cleave/GC. I assume these are there for Overwhelming Critical, partially?

    Oh, and that 40 UMD - do you want that while in combat, or does swap gear suffice?

    Have to look at that cleric splash still... not like a maxed Heal would add up to all THAT much, but the Divine Might is a whole another thing. Alternatively another level of ftr for a martial feat, I guess...

    Quote Originally Posted by Whitering View Post
    Keep in mind it has to be a human male for great cleave to work.
    Well, mine's a female, unfortunately... didn't know about the GC issue back then and it wasn't in the original plan anyway.
    No longer completely f2p as of November 2014. Father of 3 more DDO players so far (I do have more children than that).

  7. #7
    Community Member voodoogroves's Avatar
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    I *LOVE* the cleric/fighter dip on a bard. Divine Might? Wand/Scroll? Haste boost + Extra Boost?

    One more fighter level would get you Tactics DCs, if you were really interested in Stunning Blow. In general though, while useful, I find I have plenty of CC options on a Bard. Sure, it drops mobs into Helpless and that helps everyone but if you're short on feats I wouldn't stress too much.

    I just TR'd one of my characters and I'm really considering a ranger/cleric split on top of the bard - going TWF + Manyshot for bursting.
    Ghallanda - now with fewer alts and more ghostbane

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    53 str. buffed
    5 rage buff when in fury of the wild destiny (tier one rage buff, can be twisted as well)
    --------------------------------------
    59 - by level 21
    Primal Scream does not stack with Rage (spell). You're looking at ~56 strength (which is still pretty nice!)

  9. #9
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mna View Post
    Um, it's a bard. Spellpoints come from cha, right?
    Yeap.

    Quote Originally Posted by mna View Post
    Um.

    Leveling order? And, that bonus feat at the fighter level, whenever it is? (That the stunning blow then?)

    If it were my build I'd probably take ftr at 2, you can get by in Korthos without martial proficiencies OR master's touch but, well...
    I did bard > fighter > cleric > rest bard. That way heal is a class skill early on and can be invested in, and you have alot of bard levels in which to max out skills you want maxed out. [/QUOTE]

    Its more of a melee striker and not really a tank. You can displace + ghostly or incorpreal + decent dodge percentage in order to not get hit on every swing, and carry around +20 resist pots to take away elemental damage on weapons and arrows. Irrisistible dance anything without SR, and fascinate if there are alot of mobs in a small area.

    Quote Originally Posted by mna View Post
    Hm. I see this is sort of a different build than what I'm looking for.

    I'm sort of looking for a replacement build for tihocan't "revisited path" Warchanter (bard w/ 1ftr&1barb), I have one of those and... well, it's been doing fairly well so far, even up to some tanking in short bursts with the new enhancements. Yours is slightly less melee, apparently? (Heh. I do prefer having at least medium armor for melee, especially without evasion.)

    That old warchanter build will have to be reworked anyway when the enhancement changes are actually finished. As in, when the stated intention of barb and skaldic rages not stacking actually happens. I only swapped WF for Cleave, so far. (And of course no quicken or much concentration because of no casting in barbarian or triple rage anyway, and...)

    In the old build plan, there was just the THF line but no Cleave/GC. I assume these are there for Overwhelming Critical, partially?

    Oh, and that 40 UMD - do you want that while in combat, or does swap gear suffice?

    Have to look at that cleric splash still... not like a maxed Heal would add up to all THAT much, but the Divine Might is a whole another thing. Alternatively another level of ftr for a martial feat, I guess...
    Cleric line synergies include heal full ranks + divine might + wand/scroll mastery (without having to take 3x wand heighten as a pre req) + 15 hp + magical training. Maxed heal 23 ranks + 3 mod from wisdom + 15 heal item = 41 more power to CCW + CSW - add that to the grants from adding spellsinger enhancements + power item and its good enough for rock-n-roll at keeping you alive.

    40 UMD is more used for scrolling buffs and scrolling heals. Usually if I need that heal in combat, I use the quickened maximized CCW + CSW combo as that is not interruptable - or Im scroll healing someone else (while im not the one taking damage). Im not a big gear swapper for UMD. I can generally hit 40 near level 20 so I dont have to swap gear to pop scrolls.

    As far as the stated intention of barbarian and skaldic rage not stacking, this is stated in the skaldic rage description - does not stack with barbarian rage.
    Last edited by Chai; 08-28-2013 at 03:27 PM.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  10. #10
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cru121 View Post
    Primal Scream does not stack with Rage (spell). You're looking at ~56 strength (which is still pretty nice!)
    Thanks, ill account for that in the edit.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  11. #11
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by voodoogroves View Post
    I *LOVE* the cleric/fighter dip on a bard. Divine Might? Wand/Scroll? Haste boost + Extra Boost?

    One more fighter level would get you Tactics DCs, if you were really interested in Stunning Blow. In general though, while useful, I find I have plenty of CC options on a Bard. Sure, it drops mobs into Helpless and that helps everyone but if you're short on feats I wouldn't stress too much.

    I just TR'd one of my characters and I'm really considering a ranger/cleric split on top of the bard - going TWF + Manyshot for bursting.
    Sure, you could make a dwarf bard with another fighter level, come out even on feats (-1 human +1 ftr), and get tactics from both dorf and fighter, if taking stunning blow.

    The ranger split is another thing Im playing with on my other bard who has more past lives, more points for stats etc. I also might be going deeper multiclass on that one.
    Last edited by Chai; 08-28-2013 at 04:12 PM.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  12. #12
    Community Member voodoogroves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    Sure, you could make a dwarf bard with another fighter level, come out even on feats (-1 human +1 ftr), and get tactics from both dorf and fighter, if taking stunning blow.

    The ranger split is another thing Im playing with on my other bard who has more past lives, more points for stats etc. I also might be going deeper multiclass on that one.
    Ranger 6 is probably too good. It's sad, really. That deep of a splash and I hardly feel like a bard anymore ... but an extra feat or two would be awesome.

    Solid first-lifer build, BTW. Like it, if you couldn't tell.
    Ghallanda - now with fewer alts and more ghostbane

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    As far as the stated intention of barbarian and skaldic rage not stacking, this is stated in the skaldic rage description - does not stack with barbarian rage.
    Well, yes, that's what it says, but not what actually happens. Watch your str while you turn both on at the same time... checking... yep, still stacks as of right now.

    Oh well. That's one on the positive side; my other toon on that server is a drow, and the drow racial enhancements don't seem to do much - putting points into the racial weapon enhancements doesn't seem to have any benefit at all... guess it all about balances out.

    Just waiting for when the next patch comes around.
    No longer completely f2p as of November 2014. Father of 3 more DDO players so far (I do have more children than that).

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by mna View Post

    Well, mine's a female, unfortunately... didn't know about the GC issue back then and it wasn't in the original plan anyway.
    Tell me about it, my tr toon is female and well, ya, so there's only a few races she can be to be a melee with gc, which is really sucky. I was hoping it only applied to unarmed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mna View Post
    Well, yes, that's what it says, but not what actually happens. Watch your str while you turn both on at the same time... checking... yep, still stacks as of right now.
    Just waiting for when the next patch comes around.
    Well. U19 patch 1 is here, and the rages still seem to stack.
    No longer completely f2p as of November 2014. Father of 3 more DDO players so far (I do have more children than that).

  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Whitering View Post
    Tell me about it, my tr toon is female and well, ya, so there's only a few races she can be to be a melee with gc, which is really sucky. I was hoping it only applied to unarmed.
    Great Cleave should work fine on this build regardless of gender. The great cleave bug for female humans applies to unarmed (monk) attacks. The bug is that it doesn't generate offhand procs when unarmed.

    For a THF build it should be irrelevant.

  17. #17
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    A couple thoughts because this is pretty similar to the bard past life I just did which was 17bard 2fighter 1 cleric.

    Empower heal - gives the same bonus to cures i thought as max except for less sp cost. You aren't nuker so it may be a better option

    2 fighter instead of 1 fighter gives access to the tactics enhancement and another feat letting you take stunning blow. Your str will be high enough for that to be effective at least in heroic, didn't go thru epics on mine.

    Worth mentioning that besides divine might you get two spell slots from 1 cleric letting you take prot evil, and nightshield. 1 Cleric also lets you take full ranks of heal for spwr.

  18. #18
    Community Member mezzorco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mna View Post
    Well, yes, that's what it says, but not what actually happens. Watch your str while you turn both on at the same time... checking... yep, still stacks as of right now.
    It's partially wrong.

    Skaldic Rage and Barbarian Rage don't exactly stack.
    If you have Skaldic Rage trained, your Barbarian Rage grants you additional 4 STR, without effectively activating Skaldic Rage.

    Let's say you have 1 level of barbarian and no enhancements. Your Barbarian Rage grants you 4 STR and 4 CON. But if you spend 1 AP in Skaldic Rage, without activating it, your Barbarian Rage now grants 8 STR and 4 CON.
    Activating Skaldic Rage before entering Barbarian Rage is actually counterproductive, because AC penalties stack but your final strenght will be the same (the only benefit is that you'll benefit from effects requiring Skaldic Rage).

    A simple 1 bard splash grants +8str/+4con rage, +10/+6 if you have 11 barb, up to +13/+9 with power/hardy rage. With no additional penalties.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post

    **Will put up the enhancements I took once I get home and can screenshot it. It includes Divine Might from cleric tree, Wand/scroll mastery from cleric, Skaldic Rage and +1 str from warchanter, All core in spellsinger up to level 18, All of the types of songs in spellsinger, and both points of Cha in spellsinger.

    Howdy Chai. So if/when you get a chance could you give us an example of the enhancements you used? Thanks much.

  20. #20
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Sorry, I neglected to put the enhancements up there. Ill will update those when I have access.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

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