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Thread: Epic Elite

  1. #61
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by myliftkk_v2 View Post
    7. Always have a plan, and a plan b. Any EE can be reduced to a careful, but ultimately trivial dungeon crawl if you think first, execute second.
    Thinking is for the weak.

  2. #62
    Community Member Talon_Moonshadow's Avatar
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    So, let me get this straight.

    For heroic elites, if I do anything that hurts your XP/minute, I am being inconsiderate.
    But for epic elites, if I want to earn XP, I am being inconsiderate.

    Glad we got that straightened out.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jandric View Post
    ..., but I honestly think the solution is to group with less whiny people.

  3. #63
    The Hatchery kierg10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by myliftkk_v2 View Post
    This statement is now false. Holds and Dancing Ball are now viable since the respec'd mob saves in EE. Went through the Wheloon chain on EE, no healer, based on two Wizs holding and dancing just about everything.
    go run EE storm horns and get back to us on that.

    Also not wearing fort is stupid, what if you make a mistake and get stomped for 1k damage in a single swing? Now you're dead and the party doesn't have a healer and it is essentially your own fault.

    That is at least mildly disrespectful.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Memnir View Post
    What I think is OP is anyone who uses implemented game mechanics, standard game features, or their own skill to be more effective in quests then I am - so I then find the time to post complaints about their use of implemented game mechanics, standard game features, or their own skill thus making me OP on the forums.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bridge_Dweller View Post
    Here's a new flash for the people who have not evolved and still play sponge toons: you serve no purpose. it's rude, but it's the truth. Divines are powerful, have been for a long time. They don't need you. If you need them you add no value to the group.

  4. #64
    The Hatchery kierg10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talon_Moonshadow View Post
    So, let me get this straight.

    For heroic elites, if I do anything that hurts your XP/minute, I am being inconsiderate.
    But for epic elites, if I want to earn XP, I am being inconsiderate.

    Glad we got that straightened out.
    No you're inconsiderate if you go into something that requires you to dps quickly (like EE blue dragon room in tor....you need it done fairly quickly with good dps or the lightning traps become incredibly dangerous, granted there are ways to work around that with death pact or the epic moment for exalted angel....but it is best to just have good dps) and bring in some crappy destiny that is not good for your DPS then basically take a up a slot with sub par DPS when the party could have a good DPSer and actually complete the quest (or EE blue dragon in my example).
    Ckarlock Alarm (PDK bard 7 fighter 6 rogue 2) life 17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Memnir View Post
    What I think is OP is anyone who uses implemented game mechanics, standard game features, or their own skill to be more effective in quests then I am - so I then find the time to post complaints about their use of implemented game mechanics, standard game features, or their own skill thus making me OP on the forums.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bridge_Dweller View Post
    Here's a new flash for the people who have not evolved and still play sponge toons: you serve no purpose. it's rude, but it's the truth. Divines are powerful, have been for a long time. They don't need you. If you need them you add no value to the group.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    Why should it be anyone else's responsibility to pick up your slack? What breeds this sense of entitlement that makes you think you should be allowed to pike2win?
    Who said it was anyone's responsibility? If you live in the real world, things succeed or fail based on sheer willingness of some to do whatever it takes regardless who's "responsibility" it is. The world is littered with people who can't/won't absorb slack or build redundant skills to account for the failures of people not themselves, and their businesses tend to fail with regularity while they huff about this or that letting them down. Those of us whose businesses keep rolling don't sit around trying to determine who's "responsible", we just do it ourselves if necessary.

    Gaming isn't any different in that respect.

  6. #66
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talon_Moonshadow View Post
    So, let me get this straight.

    For heroic elites, if I do anything that hurts your XP/minute, I am being inconsiderate.
    But for epic elites, if I want to earn XP, I am being inconsiderate.

    Glad we got that straightened out.
    if you're doing anything that hurts the completion time/smoothness (such as being on a gimped ED when you have better options) you are the one being selfish. it is selfish of you to not put your best foot forward in any quest.

    Of course easy stuff like say EE OoB or EE VON3 I'm not that concerned. In general though EE is being run for the acquisition of loot, if you're looking for XP there are much better options.

  7. #67
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by myliftkk_v2 View Post
    Who said it was anyone's responsibility? If you live in the real world, things succeed or fail based on sheer willingness of some to do whatever it takes regardless who's "responsibility" it is. The world is littered with people who can't/won't absorb slack or build redundant skills to account for the failures of people not themselves, and their businesses tend to fail with regularity while they huff about this or that letting them down. Those of us whose businesses keep rolling don't sit around trying to determine who's "responsible", we just do it ourselves if necessary.
    Oh that is such a bunch of malarky.

    It is not the responsibility of the strong/rich to pick up the slack of the poor/weak. Let them eat cake.

    Quote Originally Posted by myliftkk_v2 View Post
    Gaming isn't any different in that respect.
    yes it is, thanks to DDO's scaling an empty slot is more valuable than a bad player
    Last edited by Teh_Troll; 08-29-2013 at 11:01 AM.

  8. #68
    Community Member Talon_Moonshadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by myliftkk_v2 View Post
    1. Control aggro and what you pull.
    2. Turn down graphic effects (I think turning off bloom helped some party mates). I'm crossfiring 2 Radeon 7900 series, so doesn't affect me.
    3. Learn to listen for chain sounds, very noticeable when they start. Also learn to rotate through mob targeting to "find" assassins and dispatch quickly. Assassins are the new "kill first" target.
    4. DC casting definitely a win now, learn to control mobs through single choke points, doorways, narrow halls, force ranged/caster mobs to round corners to get to you where they must pass through DC casting. Web/ice storms/holds/dancing ball/symbol of death/level drain/greater command/command.
    5. Most DC casting bonuses occur at levels 4/3/2.
    6. Use smart twists: healing spring, coccoon, others. Have multiple ways to inject healing nearly instantly without waiting on cooldowns.

    The most important

    7. Always have a plan, and a plan b. Any EE can be reduced to a careful, but ultimately trivial dungeon crawl if you think first, execute second.
    I'll check my bloom effects.. thx.

    A lot of that, we/I do, but takes time to learn new content.
    Seems like there are many places that a ton of mobs spawn at once.... and if they include guys with chains and casters... I have serious lag issues. (which was not a problem before the expansion...but maybe the expansion reset some graphic settings...)

    The group I run with often lacks a regular CC caster.

    We did have great success dropping back and ranging the chain guys. But sometimes you get stuck with them in tight rooms. I've also tried soloing some of the new quests, and it is harder to get away from them when they all come after me.

    Lag is the worst problem I have had so far.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jandric View Post
    ..., but I honestly think the solution is to group with less whiny people.

  9. #69
    Community Member Kalimah's Avatar
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    See...all those varying opinions on EE is why I am very selective on who I will or wont run them with. I dont have a great desire to waste my time running EE's with people who use it as an op to level up their **** destinies (im not speaking hypothetical, this was a regular occurence when I did not screen). I have no desire to run an EE with a player who regurly goes AFK once we enter dungeons (again, not hypothetical). I have no desire to run EE with a level 21 toon who is trying to "keep their elite streak while they level to cap and new destiny (again, experience speaking).

    If its hard..sure no problem. AFKer, dead lvl 21 person, the guy who wanted to keep his blitz running and ran ahead of the party...all those guys can fit snugly in my backpack while I finish the quest or drop your rock at a shrine. EE is not that kinda beast. If im going to solo EE i dont need to deal with your scaling effect.

    Hate to be a turd about it but thats how it is.

  10. #70
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talon_Moonshadow View Post
    So, let me get this straight.

    For heroic elites, if I do anything that hurts your XP/minute, I am being inconsiderate.
    But for epic elites, if I want to earn XP, I am being inconsiderate.

    Glad we got that straightened out.
    Not sure if you are responding to someones post, but its not always as simple as that. If you continuously have trouble on a certain difficulty, keep making the same mistakes over and over, causing more stress for a group than necessary, etc than you obviously should try the next difficulty down.

  11. #71
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talon_Moonshadow View Post
    We did have great success dropping back and ranging the chain guys. But sometimes you get stuck with them in tight rooms. I've also tried soloing some of the new quests, and it is harder to get away from them when they all come after me.
    Pin? Whistler? Overwhelming force? Stunning blow? Stunning fist? Trip?

    You don't need no stinking caster.

    Quote Originally Posted by Talon_Moonshadow View Post
    Lag is the worst problem I have had so far.
    here we can agree. That and insta-orange alert is particularly annoying.

  12. #72
    Community Member ddo.rsmo.pt's Avatar
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    1. No

    Carry on.
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  13. #73
    Community Member Talon_Moonshadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kierg10 View Post
    No you're inconsiderate if you go into something that requires you to dps quickly (like EE blue dragon room in tor....you need it done fairly quickly with good dps or the lightning traps become incredibly dangerous, granted there are ways to work around that with death pact or the epic moment for exalted angel....but it is best to just have good dps) and bring in some crappy destiny that is not good for your DPS then basically take a up a slot with sub par DPS when the party could have a good DPSer and actually complete the quest (or EE blue dragon in my example).
    .. and when I have failed EE Blue Dragon, is was because we stepped in and everyone died in seconds..... not from a lack of DPS.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jandric View Post
    ..., but I honestly think the solution is to group with less whiny people.

  14. #74
    Community Member Talon_Moonshadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    Not sure if you are responding to someones post, but its not always as simple as that. If you continuously have trouble on a certain difficulty, keep making the same mistakes over and over, causing more stress for a group than necessary, etc than you obviously should try the next difficulty down.
    It was kinda in response to several people who say things about not being in max ED is being inconsiderate to others. And the general TR XP/Minute LFMs and complains that often are seen on these forums.


    But I want XP if at all possible when I do a quest.

    Not XP/minute.
    Not a rush to complete...

    I do quests for fun.

    I also do them for a challenge.

    and XP.
    And Loot.


    I'm not a piker. What fun would that be?

    In fact, if a group is too good, I won't enjoy being with them.
    Who would want to be a useless gimp? Or feel like one compared to everyone else in the group?



    IMO, it's almost funny (sadly funny) how selfish people are.

    When they want XP... then everyone who dares join them better be helping them get XP.
    When they want loot... everyone who dares join them better be helping them get their loot.

    ... as fast and effortlessly as possible.

    Very clear to me that people do not desire a challenge... or care about anyone else having fun but themselves.

    Self proclaimed elite players who think that anyone who is not as uber as they (think they) are, is a rude piker.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jandric View Post
    ..., but I honestly think the solution is to group with less whiny people.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by kierg10 View Post
    go run EE storm horns and get back to us on that.

    Also not wearing fort is stupid, what if you make a mistake and get stomped for 1k damage in a single swing? Now you're dead and the party doesn't have a healer and it is essentially your own fault.

    That is at least mildly disrespectful.
    I'm sure I'll EE the stormhorns, but I'm leveling a couple toons rather slowly, and what with the VoN1 farmtastic event, it's keeping me putting off Stormhorns with the exception of a little explorer. I will go EH them first until I have the quest and mob mechanics down, which is how I do it anyhow.

    What if, what if, what if... we could do that all day. What if I have on Ghostly/Blur/Shadowwalk/Invisibility/even shadow form/PRR, access to cocoon/lay on hands/healing word/quickened spells/healing spring/wings? A mob isn't a player, they're not hard to outsmart. In probably one of my longest EE experiences (with a group that definitely was underpowered, but I had time to kill) quite some time ago I ended up being the person having to kite Karas in a figure eight around the shrine posts for lets just say, a really long time. But, 2 BBs (put down over and over) and a lot of figure-skating on my part got it done. I guess I could've whined and whined that the melee were too soft, and they objectively were, but I pulled it out, got my loots, no one rage quit, and Karas will forever chasing me in his head.

    Like I said, I could slip on 100% as soon as I wanted to, which in the past I did after dropping some SP. I found it completely unnecessary after never/hardly ever getting hit quest after quest after quest after quest as a standoff healer. I carry "insurance" gear for every occasion on my toons, most of which I never use. Then again, I'm a twitcher with a very good memory.
    Last edited by myliftkk_v2; 08-29-2013 at 11:25 AM.

  16. #76
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talon_Moonshadow View Post
    It was kinda in response to several people who say things about not being in max ED is being inconsiderate to others. And the general TR XP/Minute LFMs and complains that often are seen on these forums.
    If you add more to the completion time than an empty slot or a better toon you are being inconsiderate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Talon_Moonshadow View Post
    But I want XP if at all possible when I do a quest.
    Run EH, people run EE for loot.

    Quote Originally Posted by Talon_Moonshadow View Post
    I'm not a piker. What fun would that be?
    Piking is fun, but you have to do it in style and preferably on a bard or a druid as nobody will have any expectations of you on those classes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Talon_Moonshadow View Post
    Self proclaimed elite players who think that anyone who is not as uber as they (think they) are, is a rude piker.
    it's true but my expectations are realistic, I don't expect others to reach my level. Especially not when it comes to piking.

  17. #77
    Community Member Talon_Moonshadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by myliftkk_v2 View Post
    I'm sure I'll EE the stormhorns, but I'm leveling a couple toons rather slowly, and what with the VoN1 farmtastic event, it's keeping me putting off Stormhorns with the exception of a little explorer. I will go EH them first until I have the quest and mob mechanics down, which is how I do it anyhow.

    What if, what if, what if... we could do that all day. What if I have on Ghostly/Blur/Shadowwalk/Invisibility/even shadow form/PRR, access to cocoon/lay on hands/healing word/quickened spells/healing spring/wings? A mob isn't a player, they're not hard to outsmart. In probably one of my longest EE experiences (with a group that definitely was underpowered, but I had time to kill) quite some time ago I ended up being the person having to kite Karas in a figure eight around the shrine posts for lets just say, a really long time. But, 2 BBs (put down over and over) and a lot of figure-skating on my part got it done. I guess I could've whined and whined that the melee were too soft, and they objectively were, but I pulled it out, got my loots, no one rage quit, and Karas will forever chasing me in his head.

    Like I said, I could slip on 100% as soon as I wanted to, which in the past I did after dropping some SP. I found it completely unnecessary after never/hardly ever getting hit quest after quest after quest after quest as a standoff healer. I carry "insurance" gear for every occasion on my toons, most of which I never use. Then again, I'm a twitcher with a very good memory.
    Gearing is of course, a balancing act.

    Takes time.. cannot always fit in everything you might want.

    fort is not all that important... but..... crits can kill you! Especially in EEs.

    Makes sense to me to wear a fort item.

    But, I have a couple characters that go into the dungeon with a SP item, and are suppose to switch out to their fort item......... I often forget to.

    ...and I rarely notice.

    Doesn't mean I don't suffer for it... just not enough to realize that I forgot it.


    Spell damage is the worst problem. Saves are more important than fort.

    ..and like you said... stack all of those things that can prevent you getting hit in the first place is a good idea.

    But.... wear a fort item too IMO.


    (look into items with blue slots)
    Quote Originally Posted by Jandric View Post
    ..., but I honestly think the solution is to group with less whiny people.

  18. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talon_Moonshadow View Post
    I'll check my bloom effects.. thx.

    A lot of that, we/I do, but takes time to learn new content.
    Seems like there are many places that a ton of mobs spawn at once.... and if they include guys with chains and casters... I have serious lag issues. (which was not a problem before the expansion...but maybe the expansion reset some graphic settings...)

    The group I run with often lacks a regular CC caster.

    We did have great success dropping back and ranging the chain guys. But sometimes you get stuck with them in tight rooms. I've also tried soloing some of the new quests, and it is harder to get away from them when they all come after me.

    Lag is the worst problem I have had so far.
    1. Friends in Low Places spawns a lot, or has large groups. These spawn/group points don't change, so learn them on EH and apply the knowledge to EEs.
    2. Thru the Mirror is challenging only because the "simplest" way to find things is to shift in the corner rooms, which can also be the most dangerous. Find ways to get a door between your and next fight when you shift. Also, make sure you shift as a group, or send one scout if you're not familiar.
    3. Invis does not break when you shift in Thru the Mirror. Use this to your advantage. Invis is actually way more valuable now with the stealth changes, so experiment with it.
    4. AAs make the assassins trivial since chain only comes out when they're immobile, as a corollary, and moving assassin isn't one swinging their chain. AAs generally make Wheloon trivial.
    5. Don't drag assassins to your healer, ever (really applies to all mobs).
    6. If you've no CC, learn how to pull single/small numbers of mobs whenever possible. I run in byoh EEs where this is SOP and hardly ever a death occurs.

    Lag can definitely be crippling, though it generally only happens in the explorer which will hopefully be fixed.

  19. #79
    Community Member Deathdefy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kierg10 View Post
    go run EE storm horns and get back to us on that.

    Also not wearing fort is stupid, what if you make a mistake and get stomped for 1k damage in a single swing? Now you're dead and the party doesn't have a healer and it is essentially your own fault.

    That is at least mildly disrespectful.
    EE storm horns are fine for enchant DC.

    I've seen no-fail otto's balls from bards and wizards in a few different pugs (albeit very good pugs).

    I also agree that the importance of fort in excess of 100 is massively overstated. Everyone has been crit by enemy archers and rogues. It's not one (or even two) hit fatal.

    There's some particular race of creature that are all rogues - even the wizards - with correlative fort bypass but I can't think what they are despite chatting about it in group the other day. Anyway, whatever they are haven't stuck in my head as being very dangerous.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talon_Moonshadow View Post
    wear a fort item too IMO.


    (look into items with blue slots)
    With the new multi-augment gear dropping, I'll probably end up with a blue slot free at some point after switching over to the blue scale, and then finally get heavy fort slotted. Or maybe I'll just slip on the +10 Con/+9 Dodge belt I found at 28 and call it a day, but my rogue and monk are eyeing that belt jealously.

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