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  1. #1
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    Default monk build problem

    i want to create monk and i ve got problem to chose right race and ability score. i have got 32 point build i can afford only tomes +2 maximum, and he have to fight with hand wraps nothing else

    so i was thinking about human and dorf.

    dorf gives me lot of extra hp which costs me lot of useless enchacments on hand wrap monk and [+2 to base con]
    human gives me extra boosts and 2x 1 ability score, and free gheroism [no bonus base stats]

    so to fight with hand wraps i need 17 base dex to get greater two weapon fighting, so i can set it on 15 and get a tome +2 as i said

    so there is still 24 points to spend now i have 2 paths
    1) str to get overwhelming critical
    2) wisdom to hit with my abilities
    3) i could forget or did not spot one so feel free to share your other opinion

    so str build
    human build
    16/15/12/8/16/8 -> max str to hit 23 with tome +2 and get overwhelming critical
    16/15/14/8/16/8 _ same but with dorf

    wiz build will look he same but i ll max with level wis not str that is all

    the question is am i really need that much wisdom or i can leave it on 16 (18 with tome and more with item) to hit with my abilities, so i can max str or wizdom is really good and i should max it leaving my damage in back

    or i should think about con? but wait i got many free feats so i can just take toughenss..

    i m open to all suggestions except that one -> (no i wont change weapon -.-) xD

    EDIT
    it have to be pure 20 lvl monk with wraps.
    Last edited by Xental; 08-29-2013 at 05:49 PM.

  2. #2
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    if your going pure monk, your able to use longswords (whirling steel strike feat), short swords (ninja spy), or bows (zen archery feat), plus you can use quarterstaffs, handwraps, and kama's already. all while being centered.

    if your splash fighter and go kensai (need atleast 5 fighter ofr One With The Blade enhancement (its a T5)) you can be centered with alot more items (basically every item you choose as your focus from the core1 ability)


    not sure how good overwhelming crit for unarmed, and never played a str based monk before, so cant help with the stats, just wanted ya to know there are more options then handwraps.

    monks can also get vorpal strikes (s/p damage and vorpal for handwraps) which requires 23 wisdom.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Violith View Post
    if your splash fighter and go kensai (need atleast 5 fighter ofr One With The Blade enhancement (its a T5)) you can be centered with alot more items (basically every item you choose as your focus from the core1 ability)
    It requires Level 8 Fighter, because Tier 5 abilities require the Greater Weapon Focus Feat, which requires 8 Fighter levels.

  4. #4
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    ye you are right but i want fight with hand wraps and yes it is going to be pure 20 lvl monk... i ll edit main one

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Violith View Post
    if your going pure monk, your able to use longswords (whirling steel strike feat), short swords (ninja spy), or bows (zen archery feat), plus you can use quarterstaffs, handwraps, and kama's already. all while being centered.

    if your splash fighter and go kensai (need atleast 5 fighter ofr One With The Blade enhancement (its a T5)) you can be centered with alot more items (basically every item you choose as your focus from the core1 ability)


    not sure how good overwhelming crit for unarmed, and never played a str based monk before, so cant help with the stats, just wanted ya to know there are more options then handwraps.

    monks can also get vorpal strikes (s/p damage and vorpal for handwraps) which requires 23 wisdom.
    First, using longswords on a pure monk is a terrible idea. You have to take Weapon Focus: Slashing and Weapon Proficiency: Longsword AND Whirling Steel Strike and then all you'll do is gimp your damage output. I've tried it. I currently have a successful build on this idea at 12 ranger/7 monk/1 rogue, but my definition of "successful" for this build is lower than my definition of "successful" for other builds. When I am able to get the character some epic weapons, then I'll make up my mind about how successful it really is.

    Second, you have to splash 8 levels of fighter to get One With The Blade because this requires Greater Weapon Focus, which requires 8 levels of fighter. So, even though One With The Blade only requires five fighter levels, that will not cut it. This is not to say that doing a 12 monk/8 fighter split is a bad idea. Rather it is just to clear up the mis-information you have provided.

    Now, back to the original post. Some things you need to know about monks.

    First, your Stunning Fist and Quivering Palm DC's are governed by Wisdom. An effective Stunning Fist enables you to take mobs down at near-record paces. My 24 monk has a 50 wisdom and a 69 Stunning Fist DC, which means that pretty much everything able to be stunned will be when I set my sights on it.

    Second, your armor class is governed by both your Wisdom and Dexterity. I know earth stance monks can achieve 80+ AC and some impressive PRR (for a monk). Air stance improves your attack speed (among other things) at the cost of -2 Con. My 24 monk is in water stance for the boost to Wisdom at the cost of -2 Strength.

    Third, the amount of ki you are able to store as a maximum is governed by your Wisdom. The decay rate and the amount you can hold without decay is governed by your Concentration skill and, thus, also your Constitution. I have an 89 Concentration on my monk and while he is in Grandmaster of Flowers epic destiny, he will regenerate ki just by standing around until he reaches 100%. No, seriously, 100%.

    So, here are some possible builds (stats are at creation) and feat selections for you. These are based around the idea of getting high wisdom to bump your Stunning Fist DC, keeping your ki as high as possible for spamming special attacks (even regenerating to 100% I can burn all 450 ki):

    Human
    12 strength
    15 dexterity
    16 constitution
    16 wisdom
    8 intelligence
    8 charisma

    Halfling
    12 strength
    16 dexterity
    16 constitution
    16 wisdom
    8 intelligence
    8 charisma

    Dwarf
    14 strength
    16 dexterity
    16 constitution
    16 wisdom
    8 intelligence
    6 charisma

    Feats
    TWF
    ITWF
    GTWF
    IC: Bludgeoning
    Stunning Fist
    Power Attack
    Cleave
    Great Cleave
    Weapon Finesse
    Improved Sunder
    Monk Path (light or dark)

    You can switch some of these feats around obviously. You may not want Improved Sunder. Discipline is oft-maligned, but if you need or want a small bump in Concentration score this is not that bad a feat.

    All level ups with these builds would go into wisdom. My monk has a +4 wisdom tome, but yours can still hit 48 wisdom with its +2 - and that still gets you an impressive Stunning Fist DC.

    As far as which race to pick? I like Dwarf for the DC enhancement in the racial tree (+3 to your Stunning Fist DC, at least). I also like the better balanced stats you get with Dwarf and my monk, on his second life now, is a Dwarf for these reasons.

    With the builds you've put forth, I would say the version with 12 constitution is flawed for that reason.

  6. #6

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    Great Cleave is awesome for an unarmed monk, but it doesn't work for human females. If you choose to go human, be sure to be male. If you decide dwarf it's a non-issue since both genders handle great cleave just fine.

  7. #7
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    Half-orc monk is good fun to run around punching things with. Did that on one of my monk lives, was great fun and very effective.

    Right now, my main is a halfling monk, with only a single dragonmark feat required to let you get some excellent dragonmark healing going, it's a difficult one to argue against.

  8. #8
    Community Member goodspeed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rimble View Post
    It requires Level 8 Fighter, because Tier 5 abilities require the Greater Weapon Focus Feat, which requires 8 Fighter levels.
    See! Damn it, that's gotta be at least the 8th post ive seen that error made on. Mostly they're down in the build section. Someone needs to edit that kensei tree.

    Also back to the point at hand, I don't know if you have it, but a helf is REALLY nice with monk. I mean you got monk amp, human amp, all the human racials, and then your whipping heal scrolls. (it's alotta fun whippn heal scrolls)

    I would say I'd take 2 ftr for for the +3 action boosts, +3 to tactical dc's like improved sunder (also adds to dc of fist whether it hits or not) 30% increase in haste boost (stacks with human 20% dmg at the same time) and +2 hit and dmg with 1 handed.

    But you 20. Just tossing that out there though. chuck it, weigh it whichever. But race wise id go helf. After helf I'd roll up a dwarf if I wasn't going to splash just to get something tactics wise, or horc for more action boosts, LOTS more dmg, and 20% extra dmg to helpless. (Which anything stunned automatically forced helpless and SA dmg.)
    Last edited by goodspeed; 08-29-2013 at 06:49 PM.
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Violith View Post
    not sure how good overwhelming crit for unarmed
    Overwhelming critical is great for unarmed; unarmed can get a lot of base damage to multiply.

    You might be thinking that a 20x2 weapon gets less out of OCrit than a weapon with larger crit range or multiplier, but that's not the case. All crit profiles benefit the same from that increase.

    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    Great Cleave is awesome for an unarmed monk, but it doesn't work for human females. If you choose to go human, be sure to be male. If you decide dwarf it's a non-issue since both genders handle great cleave just fine.
    I find the animation slow on my HOrc male. Significantly slower than Cleave, as he does a little hop before the leg sweep, whereas Cleave happens smoothly.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by dkyle View Post
    Overwhelming critical is great for unarmed; unarmed can get a lot of base damage to multiply.

    You might be thinking that a 20x2 weapon gets less out of OCrit than a weapon with larger crit range or multiplier, but that's not the case. All crit profiles benefit the same from that increase.



    I find the animation slow on my HOrc male. Significantly slower than Cleave, as he does a little hop before the leg sweep, whereas Cleave happens smoothly.
    PDKs must have orcish blood since they have the same little hop.

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by dkyle View Post
    I find the animation slow on my HOrc male. Significantly slower than Cleave, as he does a little hop before the leg sweep, whereas Cleave happens smoothly.
    Yep, that's the bug. It also prevents offhand procs. The research thread is here. Summary of findings:

    Great Cleave Bugged (does the "hop", no offhand procs, slow animation)
    Female Human
    Elf
    Drow
    Horc

    Great Cleave Works (no "hop", consistent offhand procs, fast animation)
    Male Human
    Helf
    Halfling
    Dwarf
    Warforged

    The only tested race where gender mattered was humans. For all other tested races both genders fall into the same category. (Hop or no hop.)

  12. #12
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    i would say human is the better option because you can have the action boosts and heal amp.
    stats would be something like
    Str 14 to hit stuff with
    Dex 15 TWF
    Con 14 health
    Int 10 extra skill point (can go for 15 str or 16 dex if you really want)
    Wis 16 stun and other monk ability dc

    if you start with 15 str and put 6 level ups(lv24) and a +2 tome in it you can get overwhelming critical but +3 tomes are easy enough to get now. remember overwhelming crit benefits from how much damage you are doing, so as a first life monk you may be hitting around 50 base damage by epic levels so on average 3dam/hit, it may be just as worthwhile to get other feats with less requirements.
    also as a first lifer you don't have the gear, past lives and destinies to fall back on against high fort save mobs
    so i say put your level ups in wis or perhaps some in str if you are stunning reliably.

    if you decide to tr you should go for at least 1 monk for the pl feat and damage and fighter for to-hit and combat dcs (then you can become str focus and take stunning blow as well)
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by rimble View Post
    It requires Level 8 Fighter, because Tier 5 abilities require the Greater Weapon Focus Feat, which requires 8 Fighter levels.
    T5 enhancements all require Class L12, so if you want OWTB you're not going deeper than 8 Monk (which kinda makes you wonder why they put it up in T5 in the first place)

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by droid327 View Post
    T5 enhancements all require Class L12, so if you want OWTB you're not going deeper than 8 Monk (which kinda makes you wonder why they put it up in T5 in the first place)
    They require character level 12, not class level 12. My 11 Sorc/3 Wiz can take T5 Savant enhancements just fine.

  15. #15
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    Default @ Coyopa

    @ Coyopa

    can you answer my PM afap? i see that you know much more than average about monks

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