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  1. #1
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    Default Holy Loot Power Creep!

    The new loot makes 99% of the old content obsolete. If their goal was to try and kill the game I think they suceeded.

    I use to love this game because gear never went obsolete and they did a good job adding new situational items with tradeoffs. Now they just add a zero to everything...

  2. #2
    The Hatchery
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    The problem isn't the power creep. More power will come simply with higher levels.

    The problem is they increased the level cap in a very sloppy way.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qezuzu View Post
    The problem isn't the power creep. More power will come simply with higher levels.

    The problem is they increased the level cap in a very sloppy way.
    Its not just the new loot at the top end (which I haven't event played, TBH). The new lootgen is unequivocally better than just about every low-mid level option that was in the game. Doubly so since non-random items weren't updated to reflect the higher values that certain affixes (weapon dice, spell crit, Dodge, etc.) have in the new system.

    So basically, they've essentially neutered much of the non-endgame content. There's no point in doing much non-endgame loot hunting anymore...its become reduced to just burning through XP, trying to level up, and sourcing all your gear from random loot chests or the AH.

  4. #4
    Community Member zDragonz's Avatar
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    Default Right!

    The rings from TOD are barely keeping the creep at bay for levels 18-20 and lower. Let us pray they stay that way.

    If random gear gets better than having plus 9 to two stats at level 18 with two rings of our choosing and those rings took a lot of hours to obtain in the TOD raid then this pack falls off the list!

    The fact that random gear, handed out like candy, Can happen at even a lower level then 18 is scratching at these rings and creeping up on them turning hours and hours of work into....meh! This is a serious oversight that is about to dethrone TOD Rings, then why do this Raid?

    If in theory, the game is about to lose packs then we need to wake up and smell what is going on here! This is more serious than first realized. Packs are now in trouble. Why buy a pack that becomes obsolete such as TOD. It has already been established from most of us that the rings are the only good reason to run this pack.

    This should be avoided at all possible. The problem is I think it has already reached the Brink of over stepping a bounds that is fixable only if we act now and keep making threads like this and let the devs now what is happening to this game.

    Sincerely, /signed.
    Last edited by zDragonz; 08-27-2013 at 12:30 AM. Reason: 18-20, these rings work well at level 20. 21 not sure.

  5. #5
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    I made an iconic and was running Korthos n/h/e for the coin lord favor and was like, "Holy ****, it wasn't giving me toys like these when I was starting out.". The newbs are getting some very nice stuff, relatively speaking.

    That being said I'm in the process of collecting new sets of gear for my previously capped characters as well.


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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by zDragonz View Post
    The rings from TOD are barely keeping the creep at bay for levels 18-20 and lower. Let us pray they stay that way.

    If random gear gets better than having plus 9 to two stats at level 18 with two rings of our choosing and those rings took a lot of hours to obtain in the TOD raid then this pack falls off the list!

    The fact that random gear, handed out like candy, Can happen at even a lower level then 18 is scratching at these rings and creeping up on them turning hours and hours of work into....meh! This is a serious oversight that is about to dethrone TOD Rings, then why do this Raid?

    If in theory, the game is about to lose packs then we need to wake up and smell what is going on here! This is more serious than first realized. Packs are now in trouble. Why buy a pack that becomes obsolete such as TOD. It has already been established from most of us that the rings are the only good reason to run this pack.

    This should be avoided at all possible. The problem is I think it has already reached the Brink of over stepping a bounds that is fixable only if we act now and keep making threads like this and let the devs now what is happening to this game.

    Sincerely, /signed.
    Frankly, it really is no longer worth grinding for them. They do remain nice legacy items for those that have them, but they simply don't add enough for long enough to make grinding for them really worth the time. While GS is a big upgrade from 11/12 to 20+ and remains worth spending some time on, TOD rings get out classes or put in the TR vault to soon to be doing so, considering what they really bring to a character in terms of power over what they replace.

  7. #7
    Community Member Atremus's Avatar
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    What is shocking is that the destroyer of Loot eliminated gear from a raid that hadn't even been released for a full year. Simply because his way is systematically better than others in his mind. I hope that when the new raid comes out, we see some sort of return of named loot. Because right now anything you have farmed out or searched for is junk.

    Thanks for turning the DDO loot system into WoW. I will now expect the 6 month cycle of power creep.
    Characters: Celemia / Tukson / Thau (Broken link) / Atremus

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  8. #8
    Community Member FestusHood's Avatar
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    With the exception of the deadly prefix, and arguably the accuracy suffix, i'm not really seeing anything that great. Not at low to mid levels. I suppose the new + 0.5(w) is kind of nice. A lot of the new effects just don't really grab me though. Speed? I guess it's nice to be able to get striding on bracers instead of boots. The alacrity part is no good, i've had 10% alacrity since level 3.

    The new deception is kind of nice. It combines 2 suffixes, neither of which were actually good enough by themself to have been usable.

    Doublestrike? Dodge? That stuff was available on named items before. Do you really think doublestrike 3% is adding that much to your dps at level 10? All it takes is for whatever other damage suffix might be there to be more than 3% of your total dps. Then it becomes not worth it.

  9. #9
    Community Member Atremus's Avatar
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    Loot is often the reason to run content

    Balance in loot is the motivation.

    Why farm when your latest uber gear will be replaced in a week?
    Characters: Celemia / Tukson / Thau (Broken link) / Atremus

    “A pessimist is one who feels bad when he feels good for fear he'll feel worse when he feels better.”

  10. #10
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    I like the new random loot because there's more variety and slot options. Most of my old gear is easily being replaced.

    My biggest issues with it is that it made more sense to me, for example, to have wisdom on helms but you can find them on cloaks. Options are good, but it seems gen loot is being randomized on loot rolls on pretty much any item. Not a fan, though, of skills like bluff that can proc on weapons.

    There is a definite power creep too. Now deadly seems to be a must slot for melees and I just started looting min level 15 resistance +6 items. Double strike on weapons, even on low level weapons replaces a lot of old weapons. Seeker can be found on other items making The Bloodstone about worthless. Named quest chain rewards are vanilla in comparison to the new loot. This is just wrong to me. It should be the other way around.

    Not raging about the new loot. I do like it and its power creepish, but named loot needs a fix now

  11. #11
    Hero AZgreentea's Avatar
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    I love the new loot. All of my old gear still works fine, but now I can find new stuff that works better. Maybe its just my luck, but the gear I have been finding has been more useful in general.

    I can see the power creep argument, but I look at this as another re balancing of the loot table post Epic content. We've had one, maybe two of those in the last year.
    The problem is never how to get new, innovative thoughts into your mind, but how to get old ones out. Every mind is a building filled with archaic furniture. Clean out a corner of your mind and creativity will instantly fill it.
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  12. #12
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    I don't know why they eliminated all the set damage bonus stacking then released easy to obtain huge damage bonus items....

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by FestusHood View Post
    With the exception of the deadly prefix, and arguably the accuracy suffix, i'm not really seeing anything that great. Not at low to mid levels. I suppose the new + 0.5(w) is kind of nice. A lot of the new effects just don't really grab me though. Speed? I guess it's nice to be able to get striding on bracers instead of boots. The alacrity part is no good, i've had 10% alacrity since level 3.

    The new deception is kind of nice. It combines 2 suffixes, neither of which were actually good enough by themself to have been usable.

    Doublestrike? Dodge? That stuff was available on named items before. Do you really think doublestrike 3% is adding that much to your dps at level 10? All it takes is for whatever other damage suffix might be there to be more than 3% of your total dps. Then it becomes not worth it.
    You've listed out a lot of the problems, I think they're a little more impactful than you think they are...

    Accuracy not so much, but Deadly is a huge must-have now (and its only available on lootgen). Speed is better than Striding, and the attack speed does make a difference, since you can only get that 10% alacrity through crafted, you cant add it to a lootgen - so where are you going to slot it? Eventually it'll eclipse crafted Alacrity, anyway.

    I think you're underestimating the efficacy of Sneak Attack bonus damage, even on non-Sneaking classes. That's a 5(10?)% chance to trigger 4(6?) seconds of bonus damage. If you're hitting ~4-5 times per second (easily obtained for TWFs with good doublestrike) then that's statistically permabluff. The extra damage makes anything with old Deception worthless now (Backstabbers Gloves, Golden Guile). Likewise, Ghostbane>Ghost Touch. Individually no, none of them are grossly OP...but the fact that they deprecate so many old items is the textbook definition of power creep.

    3% doublestrike is worth a little more now that +[W] attacks are in the first tier or two of just about every combat class tree. Doublestrikes performed on special attacks will double your procs and special-attack damage. More importantly, its available on lootgen armor and accessories, when it'd only been available before on very special, select non-weapons - so its not a tradeoff, its a completely new layer of DPS.

  14. #14
    Community Member Barhai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FestusHood View Post
    With the exception of the deadly prefix, and arguably the accuracy suffix, i'm not really seeing anything that great. Not at low to mid levels. I suppose the new + 0.5(w) is kind of nice. A lot of the new effects just don't really grab me though. Speed? I guess it's nice to be able to get striding on bracers instead of boots. The alacrity part is no good, i've had 10% alacrity since level 3.

    The new deception is kind of nice. It combines 2 suffixes, neither of which were actually good enough by themself to have been usable.

    Doublestrike? Dodge? That stuff was available on named items before. Do you really think doublestrike 3% is adding that much to your dps at level 10? All it takes is for whatever other damage suffix might be there to be more than 3% of your total dps. Then it becomes not worth it.
    The new spell focus items or arcane lore on random loot or the new spell penetration items. The random caster stuff is nice.
    And the evocation IV focus ML15 named item... That one was a clear ***!
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  15. #15
    Community Member Veriden's Avatar
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    I feel sorry for all those people who farmed epic elite pop for their dream visor. I personally think that is the item that got the biggest kick in the nuts with the deadly and accuracy enchantments. +5 to hit and damage at lvl 25 with a yellow augment? Well here have these goggles that do the exact same thing with a yellow augment at lvl 19.

    They totally took away any reason to wear unique gear with the expansion. I personally think some one needs to walk up and slap the one responsible for the changes to loot. Who knows, maybe he'll be at gencon next year provided the game can sustain itself that long and I can do it personally.

  16. #16
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Veriden View Post
    I feel sorry for all those people who farmed epic elite pop for their dream visor. I personally think that is the item that got the biggest kick in the nuts with the deadly and accuracy enchantments. +5 to hit and damage at lvl 25 with a yellow augment? Well here have these goggles that do the exact same thing with a yellow augment at lvl 19.

    They totally took away any reason to wear unique gear with the expansion. I personally think some one needs to walk up and slap the one responsible for the changes to loot. Who knows, maybe he'll be at gencon next year provided the game can sustain itself that long and I can do it personally.
    I like it. All chests matter now. All optionals matter now, because they produce chests, where you can get the best loot in the game from. It encourages people to play the entire game rather than hit up the 4 or 5 quests/raids the gear they want is in. We also dont have to read these posts where only raid mobs matter, only 2% of the game matters, only end game matters, etc.

    That being said, I believe they could upgrade some of this raid loot and named items to at least be on par with the new random loot rather than being a step behind it. I dont feel it needs to be the only thing people ever want to get their hands on however.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  17. #17
    Community Member Atremus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    . That being said, I believe they could upgrade some of this raid loot and named items to at least be on par with the new random loot rather than being a step behind it. I dont feel it needs to be the only thing people ever want to get their hands on however.
    I am all for balance in gear. This current system doesn't provide it. They invalidated all of the work of anything previous to this expansion, including the stuff from the past paid expansion.
    Characters: Celemia / Tukson / Thau (Broken link) / Atremus

    “A pessimist is one who feels bad when he feels good for fear he'll feel worse when he feels better.”

  18. #18
    Community Member FAQ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by droid327 View Post
    Its not just the new loot at the top end (which I haven't event played, TBH). The new lootgen is unequivocally better than just about every low-mid level option that was in the game. Doubly so since non-random items weren't updated to reflect the higher values that certain affixes (weapon dice, spell crit, Dodge, etc.) have in the new system.

    So basically, they've essentially neutered much of the non-endgame content. There's no point in doing much non-endgame loot hunting anymore...its become reduced to just burning through XP, trying to level up, and sourcing all your gear from random loot chests or the AH.
    Exactly!! Why the hell did they trash many leveling items! Why make some many, many named items obsolete. Why would new players buy any adventure packs when the best gear is random loot that can drop anywhere and they can get it in F2P adventures. Geez, what a bad, bad move Turbine

  19. #19
    Community Member Oxarhamar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    I like it. All chests matter now. All optionals matter now, because they produce chests, where you can get the best loot in the game from. It encourages people to play the entire game rather than hit up the 4 or 5 quests/raids the gear they want is in. We also dont have to read these posts where only raid mobs matter, only 2% of the game matters, only end game matters, etc.

    That being said, I believe they could upgrade some of this raid loot and named items to at least be on par with the new random loot rather than being a step behind it. I dont feel it needs to be the only thing people ever want to get their hands on however.
    I agree better random gen was needed.

    I hated that every chest I opened only contained vendor trash unless it had a named item or tome.

    on a side note my lvl 6 twink weapons still better than anything I have found yet but, I have my eye out.

  20. #20
    Community Member Ballyspringer's Avatar
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    I agree with most of the posters, having random gen loot far superior to raid loot... horrible idea

    Even though I know it's not raid loot, but still an example I think is apt (as I considered old epics on par with raid loot), I do love how deadly is handed out like candy now even at low levels, but the old claw set was made non-stacking "to prevent power creep". The determination was there were too many sources of stacking damage which was making melee too powerful (which never made sense to me) and there were too many different types causing confusion, so they had to make them all the same types.... but the new deadly is a lot more than that +4 and is fully stacking, and of course is a new type..... c'mon man, really?
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