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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by jalont View Post
    It's quite clear that you don't play top-level content.
    ...soloing EE FOT...
    You forgot "with no gear, EDs, or enhancements, on a perma-death 28-point build".

    EE FoT is EE FoT, and is the highest-level raid. (Though no longer the highest-level content.) Melees do fine in EE FoT.

    Solo is a player choice, same as perma-death, or naked runs. If you personally are so uber that you want to add artificial restrictions to yourself, that's fine, but irrelevant to the rest of the world. I run top-level content, but I guess I'm not as uber as you, because I don't solo it.

    Quote Originally Posted by jalont View Post
    Further, a caster in Shiradi is still a caster and able to do things that a melee in Shiradi can't. You're putting very odd restrictions on what a caster is and how it should play.
    I'm not putting any such restriction on casters. Rather the opposite. You are.

    Your claim about casters being vastly OP compared to melee is clearly false for most ways someone might play a caster. It's closer to true if you restrict what a caster is and how it should play to cheesy Shiradi stuff.

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirValentine View Post
    You forgot "with no gear, EDs, or enhancements, on a perma-death 28-point build".

    EE FoT is EE FoT, and is the highest-level raid. (Though no longer the highest-level content.) Melees do fine in EE FoT.

    Solo is a player choice, same as perma-death, or naked runs. If you personally are so uber that you want to add artificial restrictions to yourself, that's fine, but irrelevant to the rest of the world. I run top-level content, but I guess I'm not as uber as you, because I don't solo it.
    There's a difference between doing fine and being able to do things that others can't. I never said melees can't perform. A good player can perform with any toon, but that doesn't change that fact that the best played caster always performs better than the best played melee. Since this fact seems to not be clear in your mind, I was using EE FOT as an example. It's quite simple: are there things a non-melee can do that a melee can't? Yes. Are there things a melee can do, that a non-melee can't? No. This is the evidence that melees are subpar when compared to other classes.



    I'm not putting any such restriction on casters. Rather the opposite. You are.

    Your claim about casters being vastly OP compared to melee is clearly false for most ways someone might play a caster. It's closer to true if you restrict what a caster is and how it should play to cheesy Shiradi stuff.
    I don't care about the way most people play a caster. I care about what the best played caster is capable of doing vs. the best played melee. Where either of these toons sit in regards to EDs means absolutely nothing to me.

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by jalont View Post
    It's quite simple: are there things a non-melee can do that a melee can't? Yes. Are there things a melee can do, that a non-melee can't? No. This is the evidence that melees are subpar when compared to other classes.

    I don't care about the way most people play a caster. I care about what the best played caster is capable of doing vs. the best played melee. Where either of these toons sit in regards to EDs means absolutely nothing to me.
    There's one thing we call range dps. It doesn't make anyone better but it situationally grants the ability to survive melee oriented fights by staying far away.
    Kal Vas Flam... Corp Por... Corp Por

    ...And then there was silence

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirValentine View Post
    I can't speak for "most people", but, for me, yes, that.

    How about new lootgen that is almost as good as older named gear, and new named gear that is slightly better than old named gear?

    People can keep using their old raid loot and feel it's worthwhile while they chase the slight upgrade of new named gear now available. And people who didn't get the old named gear can fairly easily get almost-as-good lootgen as a viable alternative.

    Instead we got new lootgen that is vastly better than any named gear. And new named gear that varies wildly between vastly better than old named gear, and just plain vendor trash.
    Been a while since I haven't touch epic levels... I was clearly not informed enought to understand what was really going on with the new gear (lootgen more so). Now I know better. It might have been the only way (with the pass) they found to boost casters DC based builds. Anyway, it doesn't seem so bad until it affects gameplay in a negative way like leads to more inflation of mob's HP and saves. If it doesn't... they're just numbers.

    Edit: I'm still thinking it's about evening out the field when new content comes out. Might be wrong.
    Last edited by Azarddoze; 08-31-2013 at 10:07 AM.
    Kal Vas Flam... Corp Por... Corp Por

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  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by jalont View Post
    It's quite simple: are there things a non-melee can do that a melee can't? Yes. Are there things a melee can do, that a non-melee can't? No. This is the evidence that melees are subpar when compared to other classes.
    Quite aside from your questionable conclusions, you've just demonstrated that your definitions are out of whack, too.

    If build X could do 3 things very well, and a 4th thing not at all, and build Y could do all 4 things, but all 4 only moderately well, I would certainly not automatically conclude that build X is subpar or build Y is OP.

    Quote Originally Posted by jalont View Post
    I care about what the best played caster is capable of doing vs. the best played melee. Where either of these toons sit in regards to EDs means absolutely nothing to me.
    So are you saying "the best played caster" doesn't used EDs? Or is equally effective in every ED? Or were you actually lying, and ED means a whole lot?

  6. #106
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    As a Magic player, I really can appreciate how Wizards keeps the power creep in check. The latest editions, are often much weaker than the original editions of the game in terms of raw power. They keep the game feeling new, after some 20 years, because they introduce new mechanics, new flavor, and new art without making them more powerful in absolute terms.

    I always thought DDO was very balanced to about lvl 12. At about 16 the creep became apparent and 20 was a good place to stop because gear was getting silly.

    Increasing the cap to 25 and 28 was bad for the game. FR would have been the perfect opportunity to create lateral changes to the end game of 16-20.

  7. #107
    Community Member Ungood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashlayna View Post
    Above is exactly what I said. I didn't bother to pull the quote I responded to, but it was discussing the Dream Visor being obsolete due to some other goggles. My now 17 2nd life FvS is using an elite set of Dream Visors, so I guess I'm way over leveled for the Inspired Quarter. Oh, wait...
    "Meh", the remains that you could be doing better then +2 to damage by swapping to loot-gen, and just slot some other item to give you the ghost touch. That would be of course, assuming that weapon DPS matters to your FvS, haven't run a FvS, but weapon DPS on my cleric was a non-issue, I mean if I could not kill it with BB's and Implosions, I was not going to beat it down with what amounted to a heavy stick.

    Anyway, use what you want, but there are better ways currently to use your slots, unless your back and hand slots are just totally uber. Personally I used to click my titans and then swap to Spectral gloves. But then again, I also save IQ/DD for the 18-20 jump, in that regard, to each their own on that.

  8. #108
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    Default Agree

    Agree with the video basically.

    However, I'd be really happy if they just quit reinventing game mechanics (or reduce the number of radical changes - er, radically) and if they'd spend more energy fixing all the stuff they keep breaking and also spend some more time making older content relevant again. Simple enough ways to do the latter - things like rebalanced the XP or some of the named loot items in them, etc. Or, on some of the really old raids, they could just rebalance it to be a group quest instead of raid or easy enough to short man near the raid level, etc.
    Yehediah (Dwarf Cleric), Zeddek (Human Favored Soul)
    Mezros (Drow Bard), Fieris (Drow Wizard)
    Freibo (Halfling Rogue)

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