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  1. #21
    Community Member Vallar's Avatar
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    I'd say a merge of both would be the perfect combination.

    The old system used a place as the explorer, an area. In that case, when you enter that area, you get the explorer and that is about it. The new system is annoying as you have to REALLY look HARD to notice it. For example the Demonweb, I went through the entire place 3 times and there is one area where that red web thingy for explorer was just below a ledge and I stood over that ledge countless times and never saw it. That is just annoying!

    On the other hand, the lore is quite impressive, the voice-over is well done and I wish that they bring back area-explorer with the new system's lore. Either that or allow us to target the object from a far or give us some hints from the quest journal as used to happen. I am OK with 40 explorer points, but it is not quite helpful naming them 1-40 AND placing them in the map at random.
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  2. #22
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    First off, the new ones are not "easier to see".

    Second, the new way of doing it sucks donkey butt. It's designed strictly to keep you in the area that much longer, running out your buffs and other resources. It's bad design. Supposedly it's helps the "story", but you know what? I don't know anyone who actually reads the stupid things.

    It's the DDO version of pixel *****ing, and it was bad design in the 80s, and it's bad design now.

  3. #23
    Community Member bsquishwizzy's Avatar
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    Without putting my finger on the reason why, I liked the old explorer style better. I think the new type works well like in the Cannith wilderness area, but honestly I don't get the epic Gianthold explorer stuff. I also think Kings Forest should have probably been done the old style. I mean, why - specifically - so I want to run around in a forest looking for stuff Elmister says when the gray-haired old bugger is standing in Eveningstar square? It doesn't make sense, really.

    High road, on the other hand, works with the narrative better.

  4. #24
    Community Member Gizeh's Avatar
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    Permanently lifting the fog of war of an area once you have all explorers was a brilliant idea, I really enjoy getting all of them for that reason alone (I also like the xp, but getting the whole map is even better).

    However the problem I have with the new explorers is that the are just numbers, with no clue of any kind where they might be, and no correlation to each other as the numbers seem to be randomly distributed - for example having explorer points #4 and #6 won't help me find #5 in any way. This means that I have to examine every square inch of the wilderness, which feels more like a chore than a game. In King's Forest and Sschindylryn I tried to find as many as I could before looking for a map, but with the new explorer areas I couldn't even be bothered to try any more, I just used a map right away (thanks a lot to the people who take the effort to create and upload those maps, by the way!).

    In my opinion the new explorers would be a lot more fun if they were named like the old ones, so that we had clues (however obvious or cryptic). For example "Eastern Aqueduct Memorial Pillar" (Vale of Twilight) or "Dead End" (Menechtarun) give you at least a rough idea what to look for, "#10" (any of the new wilderness areas) not so much.

    Also, I'd like to have an explorer journal for the new areas. As I know I will not get the story in the correct order anyway I don't really read them or listen to them, but if each entry was put into the journal once we found it we'd have the complete story in the correct order once we have all explorers.

  5. #25
    Community Member bsquishwizzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FranOhmsford View Post
    Best Slayers in the Game:

    3 Barrel Cove, Sands of Menechtarun, Orchard of the Macabre
    Yep, agree 100%. I LOVE 3BC wilderness. It has lots of variety, and it is really rather beautiful to look at. I’d also add Ataraxia’s Haven to that list as well.

  6. #26
    Community Member FranOhmsford's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsquishwizzy View Post
    Yep, agree 100%. I LOVE 3BC wilderness. It has lots of variety, and it is really rather beautiful to look at. I’d also add Ataraxia’s Haven to that list as well.
    I have issues with Ataraxia - I really don't like it!

    First the good:

    1) The 80s Dr Who Music {See Caves of Androzani or Revelation of the Daleks} is Excellent!

    2) The Deadly Gazebo {Knights of the Dinner Table reference}.

    Now the bad:

    1) No Swimming in the Ocean {Unlike 3 Barrel} - Instead we have to move at 1/3rd speed jumping in and out of ankle deep water!

    2) It's a TINY Island with an absolutely Insane amount of Critters on it - Seriously...We circle the entire Island doing the Slayer - All those Rusties, Scorpions, Wildmen, Scrag Trolls, Razor Cats and Hyenas couldn't possibly live that close to each other {Not to mention why the Duergar haven't wiped Out the Rusties so as not to Lose Adamantine Ore to them!}.

    3) I really dislike having to run up and down to wake up mobs {Sands Undead has this issue BUT Scorps in Ataraxia are by far the worst example in the game}.

    4) 200+ Mobs in each Instance {Over 100 less than 3 Barrel!} but doesn't feel like it and takes forever to get them all!

    I have 40+ Characters still and plenty I've deleted in the past and I run EVERY Slayer up to Sorrowdusk up to Max.
    I run Restless Isles to Max
    I regularly get 2000+ Gnolls in Sands +750 Scorrow and 750 Undead!
    I go to 3000 in Orchard

    Red Fens is a Pain in the Posterior - Rarely do I bother even taking it to 1500 never mind 7,500
    GH has such ridiculously low Kill Counts for the 3 different targets that I rarely get past 400 of each!

    Ataraxia doesn't have the issues of Fens or GH {Stupidly High Max Slayers with Stupidly low Kills per Instance} TBH Sands Undead could fit in to that but Gnolls make up for it there.
    BUT
    Ataraxia does FEEL like it's a chore to hit the 1500 - I can clear Tangleroot or Sorrowdusk in 15-20 minutes and start a new run - Ataraxia takes over 1hr to clear the instance!


    GH beats Ataraxia for the quality of it's quests and the size of the Explorer
    Fens is out and out the WORST Explorer in the game!
    Unfortunately Ataraxia is second from bottom in my list.

  7. #27
    Community Manager Cordovan's Avatar
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    Thanks for the feedback! The journals are intended to be written in a way that they can be discovered out-of-order, which is why they don't (for the most part) contain a linear narrative. I'm hearing that people like the lore and voice work, but have some discovery issues with them (clicking on them, not seeing clues as to their location in the explorer journal, some visibility issues, etc.) Much appreciated!
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  8. #28
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    I overall like the new ones with the lore and the specific object, but I agree that they are too hard to target. I get that they don't want them targetable from long distance like most "usable" object, but it's rather extreme and annoying as it is now. I wouldn't mind the objects being a bit more thematic also. Scrolls made sense in Cannith, but they're weird lying around the King's forest, and the floating disks in the stormhorns are just a cop-out. Something like stones with runes on them would be more thematic.
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  9. #29
    The Hatchery zwiebelring's Avatar
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    I don't like one aspect of the new explorers since Cannith Manufactory. You cannot target them easily with *Next/Previous Interactable*. They aren't highlighted. For the 1st time feeling that is fine but to prevent clicking the same message more than once it was nice, if you actually could target all you found permanently. Some can be targeted some can't. For some reason the number of those new missives etc. does not remain visible.

    That is for sure a minor issue since I really like the landscape of the King's Forest, Wheloon Prison and the Stormhorns but at some point I want to be able to sort out discovered interactables easily as well.

    I don't like Cannith Manufactory, though, it feels strangely steril and loveless. You might say it is about constructs and it should be that way but it is more than that. It feels inconsistent. Either have a mannor style headquarter or have an industrialized ambiente. It seems to me that this area wanted to be both. It fails at being both, in my opinion. Well, whatever the reason, in there I didn't get the same atmosphere and *wow*-effect as in King's Forest, Demon Web, Stormhorns etc.
    Last edited by zwiebelring; 08-27-2013 at 11:26 AM.
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  10. #30
    Community Member rest's Avatar
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    Older style. I play this game for the MMO, not the RPG. I have DM voice turned off. I ctrl+f1 though what quest givers have to say (which gets me in trouble sometimes when it's not the first dialog option).

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    Thanks for the feedback! The journals are intended to be written in a way that they can be discovered out-of-order, which is why they don't (for the most part) contain a linear narrative. I'm hearing that people like the lore and voice work, but have some discovery issues with them (clicking on them, not seeing clues as to their location in the explorer journal, some visibility issues, etc.) Much appreciated!
    It would be very nice if the text was repeated in the general chat window so those of us with our sound turned all the way down could read what they say without having to do so on the actual scroll.

    It would also be nice if ones you already found didn't sparkle.

    I also miss the descriptive names in the quest log. "Musing #8" is of little help, and seems unoriginal.
    Last edited by MrkGrismer; 08-27-2013 at 12:46 PM.


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  12. #32
    Community Member bsquishwizzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FranOhmsford View Post
    I have issues with Ataraxia - I really don't like it!

    First the good:

    1) The 80s Dr Who Music {See Caves of Androzani or Revelation of the Daleks} is Excellent!

    2) The Deadly Gazebo {Knights of the Dinner Table reference}.
    Cool.

    Quote Originally Posted by FranOhmsford View Post
    Now the bad:

    1) No Swimming in the Ocean {Unlike 3 Barrel} - Instead we have to move at 1/3rd speed jumping in and out of ankle deep water!
    Well, that’s because 3BC has actual in-water explorers, so of course they have to allow swimming in the ocean. Which, I might add, is one of the things I like about it.

    What bothers me is places like the Harbor where they have all this water to swim in, but nothing interesting to see. (Yes, I know the Harbor is not an explorer zone, but you get the general idea.) So in some ways I can kinda understand the limitation there.

    Quote Originally Posted by FranOhmsford View Post
    2) It's a TINY Island with an absolutely Insane amount of Critters on it - Seriously...We circle the entire Island doing the Slayer - All those Rusties, Scorpions, Wildmen, Scrag Trolls, Razor Cats and Hyenas couldn't possibly live that close to each other {Not to mention why the Duergar haven't wiped Out the Rusties so as not to Lose Adamantine Ore to them!}.
    Yeah, but the upside is that you don’t have to really go far to do slayers.

    And rusties are primarily centered around that one cave too, which is rather isolated.

    The Scrag are working on conjunction with the Druegar, though, this doesn’t fit well with Wildmen on the island.

    Quote Originally Posted by FranOhmsford View Post
    3) I really dislike having to run up and down to wake up mobs {Sands Undead has this issue BUT Scorps in Ataraxia are by far the worst example in the game}.
    Yeah, but scorps in general are annoying in this regard. And they are just as annoying in Vale and 3BC.

    Quote Originally Posted by FranOhmsford View Post
    4) 200+ Mobs in each Instance {Over 100 less than 3 Barrel!} but doesn't feel like it and takes forever to get them all!
    Not really.

    I have two toons on their second life, and I ran the island for all of the explorers and some slayers. I developed a newfound like for that area. It’s not too stretched out, it is quite beautiful visually (not as nice as 3BC, though), it has some pretty diverse mobs, and a couple of cool almost mini-quests in it. This is on top of the three quests (one of them with a really nasty end-fight) that are fairly easy to get to.

    Quote Originally Posted by FranOhmsford View Post
    I have 40+ Characters still and plenty I've deleted in the past and I run EVERY Slayer up to Sorrowdusk up to Max.
    I run Restless Isles to Max
    I regularly get 2000+ Gnolls in Sands +750 Scorrow and 750 Undead!
    I go to 3000 in Orchard

    Red Fens is a Pain in the Posterior - Rarely do I bother even taking it to 1500 never mind 7,500
    GH has such ridiculously low Kill Counts for the 3 different targets that I rarely get past 400 of each!

    Ataraxia doesn't have the issues of Fens or GH {Stupidly High Max Slayers with Stupidly low Kills per Instance} TBH Sands Undead could fit in to that but Gnolls make up for it there.
    BUT
    Ataraxia does FEEL like it's a chore to hit the 1500 - I can clear Tangleroot or Sorrowdusk in 15-20 minutes and start a new run - Ataraxia takes over 1hr to clear the instance!
    I think this is where the issue really is – you’re fairly big into slayers. I’m not.

    I mean, I like Sands, especially when I ran my ranger out there. I used lots of stealth, and tactics – Sands was a blast no matter how you sliced it. But getting to a quest? In a PUG? Major, major PITA. I STILL don’t know how to easily get to quests like ADQ and Chains of Flame, and that’s even with a map available. The area is huge. If was a pure slayer thing, I’m sure I’d love Sands. Orchard is kinda the same way.

    I sorta like Sorrowdusk too, because of the map layout and diversity, but again that’s another one where dealing with the quests is a PITA. Likewise restless Isles.


    Quote Originally Posted by FranOhmsford View Post
    GH beats Ataraxia for the quality of it's quests and the size of the Explorer

    Fens is out and out the WORST Explorer in the game!
    True.

    Fens is almost useless when it comes to S/R/E. The amount of running to upgrade items makes them useless by the time you’re ready to use them. The mob counts are low, the variety is kinda meh. The quests are fun to run, though.

    My biggest issue with Ataraxia is that they need to expand it a bit – maybe add a couple more quests. It has no named items, and no other reason to go there other than those two quests and that it is F2P. You may be right about the slayers, bit I don’t really concentrate on that too much myself.

  13. #33
    Community Member bsquishwizzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    Thanks for the feedback! The journals are intended to be written in a way that they can be discovered out-of-order, which is why they don't (for the most part) contain a linear narrative. I'm hearing that people like the lore and voice work, but have some discovery issues with them (clicking on them, not seeing clues as to their location in the explorer journal, some visibility issues, etc.) Much appreciated!
    Please reconsider the voices in eGH. Soormreaver sounds like he has indigestion or is constipated, and Truth sounds more like Snidely Whiplash. I keep looking around for Dudly Dooright to show up at my next encounter.

  14. #34
    Community Member Iriale's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flavilandile View Post
    I also prefer the older version...
    True the new version is nice, but it's not working well for wilderness ( why to people loose documents all over the place ), it worked great for Cannith Manufactory and it's not that bad for Wheloon, but it's just not right for all the wilderness places.

    Also the older version was concentrating on the landmarks in the area, while the new version concentrate on a story that (almost ) nobody will read because the messages won't be found in the correct order. ( and nobody in his right mind is going to try to read them in the correct order unless it's the shortest/fastest path to get them all )

    Another thing that I find annoying about the new ones is that you have to click on them while the old ones you just had to walk in the area to have found the spot.
    This!

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  15. #35
    Community Member bsquishwizzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zwiebelring View Post
    I don't like Cannith Manufactory, though, it feels strangely steril and loveless. You might say it is about constructs and it should be that way but it is more than that. It feels inconsistent. Either have a mannor style headquarter or have an industrialized ambiente. It seems to me that this area wanted to be both. It fails at being both, in my opinion. Well, whatever the reason, in there I didn't get the same atmosphere and *wow*-effect as in King's Forest, Demon Web, Stormhorns etc.
    Then I think they did their job.

    That sorta ties into the master Artificer, and LoB, as well as some of the narrative of the explorer items. The Bladesworn are cold, calculating, and almost emotionless.

    Kings Forest, on the other hand, was also done with a similar moodscape plan. It seems warm and inviting – maybe like the Orchard once was before the Abbot appeared. Yet once you get to the Drow area you begin to see the blight.

    Honestly – and I don’t give the people who made DDO a lot of credit – but places like Cannith Manufactury, Kings Forest, the Underdark, 3BC, High Road, and even the Cerulean hills are brilliant in how they were designed, and implemented. All of these are created to invoke a specific atmosphere, have very environment-centric explorers (the letters in Cannith I thought were really well done and are among the few that I actually listened to when I was exploring), even though I wasn’t a fan of the way the explorers were done in Kings forest. I did really like how they did the rares, however. You could run that area for hours just for the rares.

    But the theme is that they are all unique, they all play off a specific mood or atmosphere, and do so rather well. You may not like the fact that Cannith is cold and uninviting, but that’s how the area is SUPPOSED to be. And that is exactly what they were going for.

  16. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    Thanks for the feedback! The journals are intended to be written in a way that they can be discovered out-of-order, which is why they don't (for the most part) contain a linear narrative. I'm hearing that people like the lore and voice work, but have some discovery issues with them (clicking on them, not seeing clues as to their location in the explorer journal, some visibility issues, etc.) Much appreciated!
    I'd like to be able to tell immediately and easily if a journal is one I already have, so I don't have to reclick on it.

    I'd also like to be able to stay logged in to the forums--it's a real pain and discourages me from posting.

    Thanks! I'm enjoying Shadowfell so far.
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  17. #37
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    Default Interesting

    I too enjoy doing slayers, and spent most of my time when MOTU came out doing King's Forest slayers (all 7500). This inadvertently had the added benefit of not running down the xp counter in the MOTU quests when it came time for EDs, since I only did each one once or twice before capping).

    Red Fens actually was my favorite slayer area - I went from levels 11 to almost 15 just doing slayers and rares in Fens (yes, did all of them over a period of 2 months or so).

    The advantage of the old system is that you could never miss an explorer point for all practical purposes - as long as you went to a "fog of war" area on the map, you'd find it virtually automatically (exception was the Lone Tree or whatever in Searing Heights which required feather fall). The new ones can be missed even if you're standing on top of them, although using Q and circling around usually does the trick.

    Overall, no real preference, although I wouldn't mind seeing another explorer area with the "old" system as a change of pace.

    By the way, kudos for the Storm Horns explorers to be laid out in a logical manner. !4 is near 15 is near 16, etc.
    Last edited by Texlaw1992; 08-27-2013 at 02:14 PM.

  18. #38
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    Thanks for the feedback! The journals are intended to be written in a way that they can be discovered out-of-order, which is why they don't (for the most part) contain a linear narrative. I'm hearing that people like the lore and voice work, but have some discovery issues with them (clicking on them, not seeing clues as to their location in the explorer journal, some visibility issues, etc.) Much appreciated!
    Spot on.

  19. #39
    Community Member brian14's Avatar
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    Older version. For reasons other people already explained.
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  20. #40
    Community Member FAQ's Avatar
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    As has been said before, older version for immersion. But I like the additional lore from the new version. Mix 'em up I say

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