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  1. #1
    Community Member NXPlasmid's Avatar
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    Default How many years of Dungeon Alert? And still...

    Dungeon alert is still a huge problem. It's a very cheesy solution to an inherent coding problem. Devs, how can you still be releasing content that causes dungeon alert when played as intended, when the parties are killing the mobs exactly as is intended. Figure out a way to make it work better or find another system to solve your inherent coding problems. Please don't tell me you are using DA as a quest mechanic now? Tspoon
    On Khyber: Tchpostick (Monk 20) Tablespoon (WF barb20), Pspoon (Eleven Cleric20), Tsirio (Halfling Bard18), Silvr (Human Rogue2/Wizard18), Ladle (Elven Cleric11), Forq (Human Bard14), Sporkk (Human Fighter lvl20), Tspatula (monk20)

  2. #2
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    /signed

    It's bad when da becomes the difficulty in the encounter. I really hope that isn't design.

  3. #3
    Community Member bartharok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    /signed

    It's bad when da becomes the difficulty in the encounter. I really hope that isn't design.
    Its bad in most opinions when the difficulty in anyting is that it becomes difficult to succeed.
    Dystopia = utopia achieved

  4. #4
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bartharok View Post
    Its bad in most opinions when the difficulty in anyting is that it becomes difficult to succeed.
    Speak for yourself, I like ee's, I just don't like the difficulty being large waves of trash that are easy to kill but spawn da as a difficulty mechanic. Instead of 20 trash mobs spawn 3 or 4 evil orange names and a redname.

  5. #5
    Community Member bartharok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    Speak for yourself, I like ee's, I just don't like the difficulty being large waves of trash that are easy to kill but spawn da as a difficulty mechanic. Instead of 20 trash mobs spawn 3 or 4 evil orange names and a redname.
    That was just one of my annoying general comments. But people DO hate things making something harder.
    Dystopia = utopia achieved

  6. #6
    Community Member Ironclans_evil_twin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bartharok View Post
    That was just one of my annoying general comments. But people DO hate things making something harder.
    Indeed, Mob's that can move at all, Archers and casters that don't stand there and take a beating, and not being able to activate and train every mob in the quest to the end and drop 100sp worth of AOEDOT's.

    DA serves multiple purposes that have been very well explained several times by the Dev's.

    The real question is how many years are we going to have people complaining about something that is 99% avoidable in almost every quest in the game, by simply stopping and killing a few things.

  7. #7
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ironclans_evil_twin View Post
    Indeed, Mob's that can move at all, Archers and casters that don't stand there and take a beating, and not being able to activate and train every mob in the quest to the end and drop 100sp worth of AOEDOT's.

    DA serves multiple purposes that have been very well explained several times by the Dev's.

    The real question is how many years are we going to have people complaining about something that is 99% avoidable in almost every quest in the game, by simply stopping and killing a few things.
    Have you actually run the new quests or are you just spouting off drivel for no apparent reason?

  8. #8
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ironclans_evil_twin View Post
    Indeed, Mob's that can move at all, Archers and casters that don't stand there and take a beating, and not being able to activate and train every mob in the quest to the end and drop 100sp worth of AOEDOT's.

    DA serves multiple purposes that have been very well explained several times by the Dev's.

    The real question is how many years are we going to have people complaining about something that is 99% avoidable in almost every quest in the game, by simply stopping and killing a few things.
    This is real apparrent in the new quests but if you do them on ee or eh with 4-6 people you will get instant orange to red alert when mobs spawn for some waves. This is with killing every single other thing in the dungeon before it. If I'm zerging and running up the alert that's one thing and I'm doing it on purpose because it's faster. If I'm killing everything in the dungeon I should never ever see it pop up yet I do. That's the problem.

  9. #9
    Community Member Bilger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ironclans_evil_twin View Post
    Indeed, Mob's that can move at all, Archers and casters that don't stand there and take a beating, and not being able to activate and train every mob in the quest to the end and drop 100sp worth of AOEDOT's.

    DA serves multiple purposes that have been very well explained several times by the Dev's.

    The real question is how many years are we going to have people complaining about something that is 99% avoidable in almost every quest in the game, by simply stopping and killing a few things.
    I don't think you understand what is being said. I agree with your statement, but that is not what he is talking about.

    When a quest mechanic that sends waves of mobs at you makes DA without you kiting, running past mobs, or anything causes it there is something wrong.

    Example (spoiler)

    In one of the new shadowrun quests you fight inside a fort as masses of mobs attack you and DA happens and can cause issues. Is that the players fault no.

    That is the issue he is describing. Or I could be wrong and completely agree with what you said.

    If that is issue then there are many instances where there is mass mob spawns and cause DA (it is unavoidable no matter what you do) and shouldn't or as another posted seems sometimes they are using it as a quest mechanic.
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  10. #10
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    If I'm killing everything in the dungeon I should never ever see it pop up yet I do. That's the problem.
    Exactly what he said.

  11. #11
    Community Member Bogenbroom's Avatar
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    I've never had much of a problem with DA, but it has always seemed to me that it shouldn't be possible to go straight from clear to red DA. Basically, my feeling is that each stage of DA should be in place for, say, 15 seconds before the alert level can go up or down, and then only by 1 stage.

    Maybe the seconds is off, but I believe the increasing/decreasing should be smoothed out.
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  12. #12
    Bwest Fwiends Memnir's Avatar
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    To me, DA is like the smell of the Primate House at the zoo.
    Repugnant until you learn to ignore it... but every so often something happens to make you notice it again, and it's repellant all over again.


    I wish the Devs would air out the game and make DA more pleasant to live with, particularly when it comes to matters like the OP is discussing.
    Last edited by Memnir; 08-26-2013 at 03:31 PM. Reason: less snark
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  13. #13
    Community Member Bilger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Memnir View Post
    To me, DA is like the smell of the Primate House at the zoo.
    Repugnant until you learn to ignore it... but every so often something happens to make you notice it again, and it's repellant all over again.


    I wish the Devs would air out the game and make DA more pleasant to live with, particularly when it comes to matters like the OP is discussing.
    Love the analogy just had to say so lol I agree wholeheartedly with this.
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  14. #14
    Founder Mellkor's Avatar
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    DA is the single worst thing ever invented in an MMO.
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  15. #15
    Community Member redoubt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ironclans_evil_twin View Post
    Indeed, Mob's that can move at all, Archers and casters that don't stand there and take a beating, and not being able to activate and train every mob in the quest to the end and drop 100sp worth of AOEDOT's.

    DA serves multiple purposes that have been very well explained several times by the Dev's.

    The real question is how many years are we going to have people complaining about something that is 99% avoidable in almost every quest in the game, by simply stopping and killing a few things.
    Heroic elite in both friends in low places and thrill of the hunt, the end fight goes straight to red da. I've run both more than once with identical results. A dev even commented that the alert should not be occurring there.

    This thread is not about wanting easy. It's about not wanting broken.
    /sigh

  16. #16
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    I am all for very difficult design when it can be overcome with tactics, communication, proper planning and gearing.

    Instant DA that is prevalent in at least half of the new quests is not difficult, it's ridiculous. Navy Seals (or any well trained SF force) can take out a enemy force much larger than itself, because of their training, gear and communication. But it you drop 2,000 troops on them all at once there's little-to-no chance of survival and there probably won't be much competition. (kinda out there metaphor but the first thing that came to mind. I have a headache from the Shadowfell Effect.)

  17. #17
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drwaz99 View Post
    I am all for very difficult design when it can be overcome with tactics, communication, proper planning and gearing.

    Instant DA that is prevalent in at least half of the new quests is not difficult, it's ridiculous. Navy Seals (or any well trained SF force) can take out a enemy force much larger than itself, because of their training, gear and communication. But it you drop 2,000 troops on them all at once there's little-to-no chance of survival and there probably won't be much competition. (kinda out there metaphor but the first thing that came to mind. I have a headache from the Shadowfell Effect.)
    You can survive the instant da's but they (the da's) become the challenge instead of the mobs. My best advice for you with it is to run with a max dc druid and to know when the waves are about to spawn. Pull to a choke point before they spawn and setup a kill zone with ice storm, earthquake, and storm of vengence while in shiradi with nerve venom. 80% of the non assassins will get hit by the earthquake, nerve venom will get some and any instant killers and ranged dps nuke down the assassins before mopping up the rest of the trash. (btw my numbers on success rates is on a first life druid, I have a 5 wis tome on him but no past lives for dc's)

    I don't want to say it's easy etc, but you can work around it. The problem is it's a bad design and it adds challenge in the most boring, stupid way possible.

    edit*
    I've been thinking about it, I think the dev's are using it as a way to add challenge and it's wai. The other option is that after all this time they still don't understand how it works and I don't want to believe that.
    Last edited by Charononus; 08-26-2013 at 05:02 PM.

  18. #18
    Community Member NXPlasmid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Memnir View Post
    To me, DA is like the smell of the Primate House at the zoo.
    Repugnant until you learn to ignore it... but every so often something happens to make you notice it again, and it's repellant all over again.


    I wish the Devs would air out the game and make DA more pleasant to live with, particularly when it comes to matters like the OP is discussing.
    Well said Sir! The point I am trying to make is that after all these YEARS with DA, the same basic problems with it keep reoccuring. How can the devs not know how it works? How can they design quest with wave spawns that go straight to red, or just random straight to red DA for no apparent reason. DA problems in quests with wave spawn IS KNOWN, it's been known since the begining of DA. At this stage of DDO's life DA should never interfere with any resonable playstyle on any difficulty, with any size party, yet this major flaw, that's been around since day one, goes completely unaddressed. Tspoon
    On Khyber: Tchpostick (Monk 20) Tablespoon (WF barb20), Pspoon (Eleven Cleric20), Tsirio (Halfling Bard18), Silvr (Human Rogue2/Wizard18), Ladle (Elven Cleric11), Forq (Human Bard14), Sporkk (Human Fighter lvl20), Tspatula (monk20)

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    You can survive the instant da's but they (the da's) become the challenge instead of the mobs. My best advice for you with it is to run with a max dc druid and to know when the waves are about to spawn. Pull to a choke point before they spawn and setup a kill zone with ice storm, earthquake, and storm of vengence while in shiradi with nerve venom. 80% of the non assassins will get hit by the earthquake, nerve venom will get some and any instant killers and ranged dps nuke down the assassins before mopping up the rest of the trash. (btw my numbers on success rates is on a first life druid, I have a 5 wis tome on him but no past lives for dc's)

    I don't want to say it's easy etc, but you can work around it. The problem is it's a bad design and it adds challenge in the most boring, stupid way possible.

    edit*
    I've been thinking about it, I think the dev's are using it as a way to add challenge and it's wai. The other option is that after all this time they still don't understand how it works and I don't want to believe that.
    It tough to find a really, really good Druid. There's one in my guild and she's always wanted. (Well she's a great player regardless of her toon).

    My experience has not really been the slow effect caused by the Red Alert (RA) but the general slowing down of the game engine. Half the time, I'm stuck floating in the air, Archers are creating combat lag, etc. It one aspect of a much larger problem.

    Now if it's true and they are designing difficulty around RA, I have to say I think that's incredibly lazy and shows a incredible lack of creativity.

  20. #20
    Community Member NXPlasmid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drwaz99 View Post
    It tough to find a really, really good Druid. There's one in my guild and she's always wanted. (Well she's a great player regardless of her toon).

    My experience has not really been the slow effect caused by the Red Alert (RA) but the general slowing down of the game engine. Half the time, I'm stuck floating in the air, Archers are creating combat lag, etc. It one aspect of a much larger problem.

    Now if it's true and they are designing difficulty around RA, I have to say I think that's incredibly lazy and shows a incredible lack of creativity.
    Well unless they have changed something, dungeon alert changes the CR of the mobs as well as the harried effect on players when getting hit.
    On Khyber: Tchpostick (Monk 20) Tablespoon (WF barb20), Pspoon (Eleven Cleric20), Tsirio (Halfling Bard18), Silvr (Human Rogue2/Wizard18), Ladle (Elven Cleric11), Forq (Human Bard14), Sporkk (Human Fighter lvl20), Tspatula (monk20)

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