Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 21 to 38 of 38
  1. #21
    Bwest Fwiends Memnir's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    ¿
    Posts
    16,601

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by NXPlasmid View Post
    Well said Sir!
    Ty Ty.
    I felt it was the most apt way of putting it that I could come up with.


    Wish it wasn't... but ya know.
    53461

  2. #22
    Community Member taurean430's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    2,670

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by NXPlasmid View Post
    Well unless they have changed something, dungeon alert changes the CR of the mobs as well as the harried effect on players when getting hit.
    Prettymuch...

    It's not even so much these effects. It's the lag associated with DA that makes it a killer. Hovering in the air, or standing in place is really, really fun.

    /sarcasm.
    Khyber: Evandus, Halfdeadd, Licoricewhip, Sawyn, Elkabongg, Brothanumsi, Soulbro, Cromix.
    And an army of gimp experiments!

  3. #23
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    8,255

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ironclans_evil_twin View Post
    Indeed, Mob's that can move at all, Archers and casters that don't stand there and take a beating, and not being able to activate and train every mob in the quest to the end and drop 100sp worth of AOEDOT's.

    DA serves multiple purposes that have been very well explained several times by the Dev's.

    The real question is how many years are we going to have people complaining about something that is 99% avoidable in almost every quest in the game, by simply stopping and killing a few things.
    Actually, that's not the complaint here. It's that other 1% that is the problem and the devs seeming disregard, or intentional use, of it.

    It would seem to me that if that many active AI's was an issue, it would be an issue that would be taken into consideration when designing quests. Simply, if the system has a problem with X or more mobs, bite the bullet and keep design within the systems capabilities by not designing encounters with X or more mobs. If the system can sometimes handle encounters with X+ mobs, then design DA with exclusions for for those encounters.

    But what we have are either the devs designing encounters with more mobs than what their system can handle, DA code that is poorly designed to trigger in situations that don't cause what it's designed to discourage, or the devs just using it as an encounter modifier regardless of it's effect on the system.
    Last edited by Gremmlynn; 08-26-2013 at 06:11 PM.

  4. #24
    Community Member zDragonz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Earth and and full time at work: I move 400 lb stainless steel Refrigerators with ease!
    Posts
    691

    Default This.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ironclans_evil_twin View Post
    Indeed, Mob's that can move at all, Archers and casters that don't stand there and take a beating, and not being able to activate and train every mob in the quest to the end and drop 100sp worth of AOEDOT's.

    DA serves multiple purposes that have been very well explained several times by the Dev's.

    The real question is how many years are we going to have people complaining about something that is 99% avoidable in almost every quest in the game, by simply stopping and killing a few things.
    The Invisible spell was being abused and we could just run through the whole dungeon without fighting anything sometimes. Now if we are detected it causes the DA to go up, this is realistic also because the monsters are working as a team and are saying hey they went that way! I heard them! Also I remember, while not invisible, dragging huge mobs into one location and firewalling them all while the tanks blocked them in. This was game breaking and it was done in every quest. There was nothing for the monsters to use as a tactic and DA is a tactic that they can use and I think it is fair.

    I am glad DA was introduced. It helped with less abusive zerging that is kind of an exploit but not a banable one. I mean really! It was lame to watch 10's of 50's of mobs being funneled into a small doorway while one tank blocked with his shield or the caster simply just jumped back and forth and even if he or she got it, big deal.

    Now we can still do this, but it is just harder to do. Also it was done to help with Giant lag that was happening to the game many years ago caused by this as it made the game unplayable and introducing DA helped us more than you realize.
    The data shows it and proves that DA significantly helps with server lag. After all the more monsters on a screen at a single time affects the time it takes a computer/server to effectively keep track of a huge mobs which was causing problems because everyone was doing it.

    Just get more powerful and Red DA every time. After all what is Red DA compared to our Might! We can still over come this. But really and honestly I think stopping to smell the roses and kill the mobs as we go is just sound playing and more realistic for a game such as this and how it is intended to be played.

  5. #25
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    5,345

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by zDragonz View Post
    The Invisible spell was being abused and we could just run through the whole dungeon without fighting anything sometimes. Now if we are detected it causes the DA to go up, this is realistic also because the monsters are working as a team and are saying hey they went that way! I heard them! Also I remember, while not invisible, dragging huge mobs into one location and firewalling them all while the tanks blocked them in. This was game breaking and it was done in every quest. There was nothing for the monsters to use as a tactic and DA is a tactic that they can use and I think it is fair.

    I am glad DA was introduced. It helped with less abusive zerging that is kind of an exploit but not a banable one. I mean really! It was lame to watch 10's of 50's of mobs being funneled into a small doorway while one tank blocked with his shield or the caster simply just jumped back and forth and even if he or she got it, big deal.

    Now we can still do this, but it is just harder to do. Also it was done to help with Giant lag that was happening to the game many years ago caused by this as it made the game unplayable and introducing DA helped us more than you realize.
    The data shows it and proves that DA significantly helps with server lag. After all the more monsters on a screen at a single time affects the time it takes a computer/server to effectively keep track of a huge mobs which was causing problems because everyone was doing it.

    Just get more powerful and Red DA every time. After all what is Red DA compared to our Might! We can still over come this. But really and honestly I think stopping to smell the roses and kill the mobs as we go is just sound playing and more realistic for a game such as this and how it is intended to be played.
    Wow you don't get it do you. There are fights where you could have killed every single monster in the dungeon to that point and then the mobs spawn and if you aren't solo you get instant orange or red alert. We aren't talking about zerging, for the record I don't like da for stopping this, just give mobs faster run speed and make them hit harder if you don't want us to zerg. But zerging has absolutely zero to do with this discussion. Play the new content on eh or above with 4 to 6 people in the party before you make more comments about this problem in the new content.

  6. #26
    Community Member zDragonz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Earth and and full time at work: I move 400 lb stainless steel Refrigerators with ease!
    Posts
    691

    Default

    ok

  7. #27
    Community Member Soulfurnace's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    The Land of Oz
    Posts
    1,534

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by zDragonz View Post
    ...this is realistic also because the monsters are working as a team and are saying hey they went that way! I heard them!

    ...more realistic for a game such as this and how it is intended to be played.
    Realistic... Right. So, if monster group A sees a player, they can communicate to monster group B, which more is realistic.
    Bugger, I didn't know kobolds had telepathy!

    I do not care how Turbine intended for DDO to be played. I pay for this, and I'll play how I want to.

    However, this thread is about new quests causing instant DA, not due to player fault. See: New quests.

  8. #28
    Community Member bartharok's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Far beyond the ravens gate
    Posts
    5,502

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Soulfurnace View Post
    Realistic... Right. So, if monster group A sees a player, they can communicate to monster group B, which more is realistic.
    Bugger, I didn't know kobolds had telepathy!

    I do not care how Turbine intended for DDO to be played. I pay for this, and I'll play how I want to.

    However, this thread is about new quests causing instant DA, not due to player fault. See: New quests.
    If monster group A sees something and keeps it to itself, theyre stupid. If i saw a group of biggies invade my den id yell my head off. (no telepathy needed)
    Dystopia = utopia achieved

  9. #29
    Community Member Soulfurnace's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    The Land of Oz
    Posts
    1,534

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bartharok View Post
    If monster group A sees something and keeps it to itself, theyre stupid. If i saw a group of biggies invade my den id yell my head off. (no telepathy needed)
    Still doesn't make it realistic! Kobolds forgetting about the screaming as I stab them with a lacerating club? Tsk tsk.
    Not to mention, sound only travels so far...

  10. #30
    Community Member bartharok's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Far beyond the ravens gate
    Posts
    5,502

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Soulfurnace View Post
    Still doesn't make it realistic! Kobolds forgetting about the screaming as I stab them with a lacerating club? Tsk tsk.
    Not to mention, sound only travels so far...
    AH, but realistically, if i heard a friend yell for help id call for backup as i rush in.

    And the lacerating clubs are rather amusing. I find that it helps to think of them as something that disrupts the tissues.
    Dystopia = utopia achieved

  11. #31
    Community Member Soulfurnace's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    The Land of Oz
    Posts
    1,534

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bartharok View Post
    AH, but realistically, if i heard a friend yell for help id call for backup as i rush in.

    And the lacerating clubs are rather amusing. I find that it helps to think of them as something that disrupts the tissues.
    You'd call for back up, yes. But if they're still standing there, yet aware that we exist... you must've annoyed them.
    Which also raises the question, why doesn't a cry for help get a bunch of kobolds rushing into an area? That would be quite a cool quest mechanic. (And give us an option aside from nuke 'n' run. I'd still nuke though)

  12. #32
    Community Member bartharok's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Far beyond the ravens gate
    Posts
    5,502

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Soulfurnace View Post
    You'd call for back up, yes. But if they're still standing there, yet aware that we exist... you must've annoyed them.
    Which also raises the question, why doesn't a cry for help get a bunch of kobolds rushing into an area? That would be quite a cool quest mechanic. (And give us an option aside from nuke 'n' run. I'd still nuke though)
    Was thinking the same, instead of dungeonalert from the rear, a wall of kobolds up fron backstabbing their weaselly guts out.
    Dystopia = utopia achieved

  13. #33
    Community Member FranOhmsford's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Staffs, England
    Posts
    9,199

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bartharok View Post
    AH, but realistically, if i heard a friend yell for help id call for backup as i rush in.

    And the lacerating clubs are rather amusing. I find that it helps to think of them as something that disrupts the tissues.
    A Lacerating Club = A Club with Shards of Glass or Nails embedded in it.

    Simples!


    As for DA - It handily simulates Mobbing in PnP.
    Unfortunately it also appears in the WRONG Places!

    Examples:

    1) Stealthy Reposession!
    50% of the time you open the first door {taking you out of sneak btw} and the First Prophet is in front of you!
    This has happened even when I've gone in solo, parked hire in corner behind bars well away from door, buffed and snuck to door!

    Invisibility vanishing every time I pull a lever/open a door is also beyond annoying!

    2) Claw of Vulkoor
    Yep another supposed "Stealth" Dungeon!

    Why oh why do the Devs keep messing up Stealth in this game?

    When you make a "Stealth Dungeon" the idea is to make it "Stealthable"
    NOT to put in a bunch of INVISIBLE till you're on TOP of em mobs with Super High Spot and Listen Scores or even worse "Tremor Sense"!

    3) Sins of Attrition {or is it one of the other Amrath Quests - Heck ALL of EM!}
    -Multiple Respawning Mobs spawning on top of you
    -Mobs above and below you on different floors counting towards DA
    -Tiny Corridors with Massive Trap Zones - Why oh Why are the Mobs able to run around with Impunity?

    4) Shadow King {also known as "Fight at the Light"}.
    -Run to Light - Firewall - Block
    -Run to Light - Firewall - Block
    -Run to Light - Firewall - Block
    etc
    etc
    etc
    etc
    Then all the d@rn Mobs Respawn on the way back!

    P.S. Acid Rain and Ice Storm work almost as well - A Cleric can use TU or Radiant Burst BUT Firewall is out and out the #1 Choice for this quest!



    I'm not against DA per se.
    I like the idea that we get to fight a large amount of lesser mobs BUT they use Mob Tactics to cause us problems!
    Those Mobs SHOULD HOWEVER be LESSER!
    NOT CR 30s in a Lvl 25 Quest BUT CR 10s!

    Have 30-40 of em if u like - Spawn Red Alert on us
    BUT allow us the ability to do what we do in PnP and Mow them Down! {IF we take the Right Tools for the Job that is!}.


    You Put Traps, Locked Doors, Spell Resistant Mobs, Mobs with DR etc etc into the game BUT you gave us the Tools to bypass them so long as we USED those Tools!
    By all means Put Large amounts of Mobs into the game that Instantly Spawn Red Alert BUT Don't Make those Mobs Ridiculously High CR for the Quest you add them into!

    -MULTIPLE Archers that take 5 or 6 hits EACH for a Moderately well Built/Geared Character to take down {E-Hard} are NOT Viable for Red Alert Tactics!
    -Orange/Red Named Healers {Yes I'm looking at you Minotaur Shamans!} are NOT VIABLE for Red Alert Tactics!

    In Fact - Orange/Red Names should be kept to a bare minimum in Mob Situations!

    Take Tharashk Arena as an Example - Red Name the Ogre Magi and the Air Ele INSTEAD of the Two/Three Minotaur Healers!

    Deathward the Minotaur Healers if you like {they should be fully buffed before entering the Arena after all} BUT FIX Dispel Magic/Greater Dispel etc. to WORK for US as well as for Mobs!
    This would require that Mobs CRs for Buffs be Drastically Reduced!

  14. #34
    Community Member bartharok's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Far beyond the ravens gate
    Posts
    5,502

    Default

    Just to clarify my position: I dont mind DA.

    But when it goes off the scale, as it does in some quests it can be a pain. That part should be fixed.
    Dystopia = utopia achieved

  15. #35
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    8,255

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by zDragonz View Post
    Now we can still do this, but it is just harder to do. Also it was done to help with Giant lag that was happening to the game many years ago caused by this as it made the game unplayable and introducing DA helped us more than you realize.
    The data shows it and proves that DA significantly helps with server lag. After all the more monsters on a screen at a single time affects the time it takes a computer/server to effectively keep track of a huge mobs which was causing problems because everyone was doing it.
    If this is the case, why are devs designing single encounters that trigger red DA. It seems rather foolish to do this if causes performance issues with their system.

    This thread isn't about DA so much as it's about game design that singly triggers it.

  16. #36
    Community Member Singular's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    2,792

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gremmlynn View Post
    If this is the case, why are devs designing single encounters that trigger red DA. It seems rather foolish to do this if causes performance issues with their system.

    This thread isn't about DA so much as it's about game design that singly triggers it.
    A dev named Melange commented: "Red Alert is not WAI. I will fix this."

    Here:

    https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...75#post5075075

  17. #37
    Community Member NXPlasmid's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    2,387

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Singular View Post
    A dev named Melange commented: "Red Alert is not WAI. I will fix this."

    Here:

    https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...75#post5075075
    This is my point exactly. WHY after SOOOO many years of DA are the devs still designing content that creates huge gameplay conflicts with DA? I can assure you after hundreds of complaints about Basition of Power being unplayable due to the conflicts of playing the dungeon "as intended" causing massive spikes in red dungeon alert, it's still problematic to this day. All due respect to Melange, this is not considered a serious problem by Turbine. All of the (older) quests that suffer terribly because of DA continue to go unaddressed, and as I stated in the first post.

    And seriously, with the super spawns at the end of what goes up, can anyone tell me with a straight face that this wasn't gonna cause dungeon alert problems? I am totally sympathetic with the difficulties the devs have faced with lag issues, and acknowledge they are doing a lot to try to address it, in every update and patch, the new stealth mechanic for instance (which I really like btw), but the end fight of what goes up was just asking for it. It's fairly clear that this is real problem for players who regularly play content at higher difficulties, as at lower diffs, you have less spawns, and so probably only hit yellow to orange DA, not instant red if you are playing hard or elite... draw your own conclusions about that...
    Tspoon
    On Khyber: Tchpostick (Monk 20) Tablespoon (WF barb20), Pspoon (Eleven Cleric20), Tsirio (Halfling Bard18), Silvr (Human Rogue2/Wizard18), Ladle (Elven Cleric11), Forq (Human Bard14), Sporkk (Human Fighter lvl20), Tspatula (monk20)

  18. #38
    Hero
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    SW United States
    Posts
    2,776

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Singular View Post
    A dev named Melange commented: "Red Alert is not WAI. I will fix this."

    Here:

    https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...75#post5075075
    He was talking about that one single quest. There are 4-5 quests in the new content that this happens in regularly.

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

This form's session has expired. You need to reload the page.

Reload