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  1. #61
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jalont View Post
    People who don't like large explorer areas should find a new game. Large explorer areas have been a staple of DDO for many years and has brought people to the game that enjoy such design. There are other games out there for those that don't like them. Instead of trying to dumb down the game, it's probably just best to find a game that has the design choices that you like.
    Make the explorers harder then, there a 3 reason to do an activity in an mmo xp, loot, or challenge, these explorers provide none. So lets crank the mobs up to ee levels so it provides one of the three and see how you carebears do. Right now there is zero chance of dying in there so there is zero challenge.

    Quote Originally Posted by myliftkk_v2 View Post
    If you can't figure out how to make a well under <60s run to any Wheloon quest w/o attracting every mob in sight, perhaps you're not ready to run EE? And if you haven't figured out the shortcuts, then perhaps you need to spend a little more time inside the explorer...

    You've got invis/haste/exp retreat/jump/blur and now even shadowwalk clickies... so how the heck does one fail getting there, do you need a trail of plat to follow?

    Or, just let the toon that knows the way go open the north gate so the rest of the party can just saunter north at their own pace.
    The problem is you're going to need to run to get those teleporters to do it on every single toon, it's not a learn a path thing like sands or gh. You're going to have to spend time in a boring area every single life on every single toon to get to the quest efficiently.

    Quote Originally Posted by myliftkk_v2 View Post
    Real adventurers don't use trails, they cut their own.

    Truth is, in order for true heroes to remembered as legendary, a lot of unworthy adventurers need to fall by the wayside. Not everyone gets immortalized by bards, and that's the point. I'm trying to remember where in The Odyssey Homer referenced all the portals Odysseus used.
    Strawman much?
    We play games to have fun not to be immortalized by a bard. Perhaps you're doing the wrong activity and should step away from the computer and enroll in firefighting school to do something actually heroic if that's your goal.

    Quote Originally Posted by DeKalbSun View Post
    uh...once again. you can teleport for free. Find the wayfinders. As much time as you spend on the forums complaining about teleporting
    for free you could have found them by now. And then teleported. For free.
    Spent 3 hours in storm horns found one teleporter on one toon tell me how it's so quick and easy.

  2. #62
    Community Member bartharok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rubbinns View Post
    Yeah, makes sense. It's totally more immersive than pay dude at entrance to teleport you if you actually have to follow thier explorer trail. Love how dense you are. Long live scotts
    Youre not making any friends here, you know. People dont like your ideas, move on, maybe theyll like your next one. Just remember to act like youre older than 5
    Dystopia = utopia achieved

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by bartharok View Post
    Youre not making any friends here, you know. People dont like your ideas, move on, maybe theyll like your next one. Just remember to act like youre older than 5
    Not here to make friends, Some people don't like my ideas. Stay on to convince them of their mental short comings. I will act like I am 6. Hopefully that's old enough for you.

  4. #64
    Community Member smckelv's Avatar
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    Angry Don't be Mean

    Folks are just plain mean, not even sarcastic-mean, just mean and name-calling to the OP. My observation.

    I think that we have a difference in life experiences here. I for one, being in my 40's w/ a family to support, find extra "hey pay RL $" to be less than immersive. It automatically opens up the part of my thinking about bills, expenses, savings, etc. and closes the part that thinks about cool barbarian finishing strikes. Result: immersion fail.

    What happens when half the group is at the quest entrance and is saying "pay to teleport here" and you can't? Awkward? Lack of immersion? Yea, in my opinion.

    I'll postulate that maybe the OP posted not so much to start a discussion as to communicate feedback to the company. Companies might realize that for every 1 vocal complainer there are usually several more silent.

    And the reaction, name-calling, strawman/ad hominem arguments usually encourage more silence from those with a different perspective.
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  5. #65
    Community Member bartharok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rubbinns View Post
    Not here to make friends, Some people don't like my ideas. Stay on to convince them of their mental short comings. I will act like I am 6. Hopefully that's old enough for you.
    Youre not making any friends for your ideas either. The best you can do is to return at some later point, and make a better case. As this thread stands, youll just do them harm.
    Dystopia = utopia achieved

  6. #66
    Community Member bartharok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smckelv View Post
    Folks are just plain mean, not even sarcastic-mean, just mean and name-calling to the OP. My observation.

    I think that we have a difference in life experiences here. I for one, being in my 40's w/ a family to support, find extra "hey pay RL $" to be less than immersive. It automatically opens up the part of my thinking about bills, expenses, savings, etc. and closes the part that thinks about cool barbarian finishing strikes. Result: immersion fail.

    What happens when half the group is at the quest entrance and is saying "pay to teleport here" and you can't? Awkward? Lack of immersion? Yea, in my opinion.

    I'll postulate that maybe the OP posted not so much to start a discussion as to communicate feedback to the company. Companies might realize that for every 1 vocal complainer there are usually several more silent.

    And the reaction, name-calling, strawman/ad hominem arguments usually encourage more silence from those with a different perspective.
    I dont like the teleport for shards eother. The three teleport points are quite enough to shorten the journey. How about people saying you cant walk or use the teleport points since you can just skip the explorer to teleport, since its free. It would annoy me since i do enjoy the explorers.

    I think the explorers are useful for showing if you can get through the quest. If you die in the explorer, you are pretty likely to die in the quests. so, if i fail at the explorer, i wont try the quest until ive toughened up.

    I got a fafmily to support as well, and wouldnt use the pay to teleport at all. But i dont have to, since i can get to the quest another way, walking through the world as i am supposed to.
    Dystopia = utopia achieved

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rubbinns View Post
    Yeah, makes sense. It's totally more immersive than pay dude at entrance to teleport you if you actually have to follow thier explorer trail. Love how dense you are. Long live scotts
    Now your just talking gibberish. Oh, you're going for racist gibberish?

    Actually, it might not count as racist as there's no such word as 'scotts' in relation to the Scots or the Scottish .... see who's dense in this conversation now you moron?

    Good luck with your petition on flying pigs or unicorns or whatever it is you kids are into.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by bartharok View Post
    Youre not making any friends for your ideas either. The best you can do is to return at some later point, and make a better case. As this thread stands, youll just do them harm.
    Some reason you seem that the idea is a prt of me and not the other way around. The idea doesn't need for me to have friends. A poster was kind enough to fill me in on the history of the failed teleport from lfm panel. Let's not pretend we need to be friends for me or others to realize that charging for teleports is sleazy. you may or may not like teleports, but they are here. I dont like in what form and I want it changed. Others may want it gone, go start that thread.

  9. #69
    Community Member bartharok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rubbinns View Post
    Some reason you seem that the idea is a prt of me and not the other way around. The idea doesn't need for me to have friends. A poster was kind enough to fill me in on the history of the failed teleport from lfm panel. Let's not pretend we need to be friends for me or others to realize that charging for teleports is sleazy. you may or may not like teleports, but they are here. I dont like in what form and I want it changed. Others may want it gone, go start that thread.
    You want something for nothing. Like most people nowadays. Shame on you.
    Dystopia = utopia achieved

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by bartharok View Post
    You want something for nothing. Like most people nowadays. Shame on you.
    Yes.

    Are we clear now?

  11. #71
    Community Member bartharok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rubbinns View Post
    Yes.

    Are we clear now?
    Yes, ill ignore you from now on.
    Dystopia = utopia achieved

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by bartharok View Post
    Yes, ill ignore you from now on.
    Thank you. You can go now.

  13. #73
    Community Member smckelv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bartharok View Post
    You want something for nothing. Like most people nowadays. Shame on you.
    Cost $30 to buy the explorer areas....It could be more like wanting value than what you said.
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  14. #74
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smckelv View Post
    Cost $30 to buy the explorer areas....It could be more like wanting value than what you said.
    Good luck with that. Not only is it 30 bucks to get your foot in the door, but then you get to be confronted with the option to pay astral shards for just about any situation which requires a resolution. Want that NPC to give you credit for the optional? I hope you maxed out some social skills, or you can donate 6AD to his cause...
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  15. #75
    Community Member bartharok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smckelv View Post
    Cost $30 to buy the explorer areas....It could be more like wanting value than what you said.
    He got what he paid for, now he wants more. Thats wanting something for nothing. Wanting value would be if he didnt like the quality. As it stands he just wants the game made easy in the name of immersion. Real valuable. The value would be in the lesson made by withdrawing his gaming privileges for a week
    Dystopia = utopia achieved

  16. #76
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    ~RAGE~

    Can we get this thread closed yet? thread seems rather useless atm, they have several FREE teleports (2 in wheloon, and 3 in storm horns) that get you to within a minute or two of the quest, sure its not right at the door like the pay option but WHO CARES (besides you complainers obviously) Its already been stated that its not a cash grab or bait and switch, just about ALL of the older content had explorer areas that you had to run through (Subterrane, vale, amrath, cannith) All without teleporters, and all they did was include a pay option IN ADDITION to the free method to get to quests the first time rather then running through the area (Which people have been asking for for ages for stuff like cannith and restless isles and possibly others), WHO CARES they have to make money some how. do you honestly want the game to close because they're unable to pull in enough money? And no, I doubt that VIP's are covering it, and the preimium/f2p players are probably only chipping at the block. like many F2p games its probably a small core group that spends hundreds of dollars a month individually that make up the majority of the costs to run and develop new content.

    storm horn are camps that have a rock ya gotta click to get the teleport (probably changed from just passign through an area since the GH teleport didnt always register, this makes it easier to both implement and prevent rage that someone got the teleport and others didnt like what was happening with GH), the only one you really need is the north camp to get the the 3 quests on teh top of the mountain, the other two quests can be gotten to from the entrance. I'd guess, and hope the other teleport are for future content, although given that even kings forest didnt have any quests added I'd doubt it. From the north camp there are PATHS ON THE GROUND, one east, and one south. east takes you towards what goes up, and break in the ice south takes you towards break in the ranks. And from the entrance there are PATHS to the other two quests (SW camp is close to the lines of supply quest, so if you really didnt feel like spending 2 minutes running, you can take that and it'd take prob 30sec), either way there are PATHS THAT SHOW YOU THE WAY. they may not be lighted routes or a little fairy that flies infront of ya to direct you right to the door but they are there.

    wheloon is abit different but honestly with the small map i can see why, it probably would take someone less then 5 minutes to run around the entire map. for the teleports you have gotta finish the 2 quests involved for the teleport (Not sure if you gotta finish mirror darkly to get the old stone teleport or if merely having the quest active wil supply it, usually dont bother taking the teleports anyway since ANY of the quests can be gotten to within 1 min of invisi running, or around 5 if you wanna clear and do slayers along the way which I usually do) but the old stone liason takes you to the very center of the map right inside the Hall (with a lvr behind ya to open to allow others from teh west side in) which is about 1 min away from ALL of the quests except for the lesson in deception, although if you invisi ran you prob could make it to that one within a min as well, but that can also be almost directly teleported to from the other Liason after you finish friends in low places quest. and while there are PATHS to the quest, I'd advice not taking them as the rooftops are a much more direct and easier route to take (Which IMO makes this one of the most fun explorers, especially for my rogue types)

    as for breaking immersion by having a person teleporting to an area or quest you, it doesnt really break it IMO, even if its for shard cost. Shards ingame can be though of a unique material that is widespread enough that merchants have decided to use it instead of PP, which for PP it usually differers from kingdom to kingdom, but lets not get into why eveningstar is allowing us to use PP from ebberron. In PnP it would be merely a guide to speed travel you along by showing you the way, not really magically putting you there, although that could be the case in some instances. (I know when I play PnP I dont wanna have to spend each day traveling and chancing for random encounters to pop up, although I'd not always given the choice to fast travel it usually helps speed along and keep things flowing) IF it was the former, and he was showing you the way would you really wanna sit through an animation of your character following them a few steps every time you clicked on it?

    Not to mention, this topic wasnt really about the large areas needing to be ran through, sure that may have been a part of a reason to rage but ultimately shouldnt have been enough to actually warrant a post, as I already said there are several FREE options that take you close to the quests, the astral cost teleport is there for people who want it and even that isnt technically a money grab since there are ways to get shards for free, I myself have gotten a few from the daily dice, as well as some from the store weekly freebies. another method would be to run quests and put them up on teh shard auction (Dont like that, well thats your choice, but the option is there and several people use it)

    if you die from there on your way then your doing something wrong (this is not really a game you can play 'your way' and expect to be able to win, sure you can run through the quests naked with no weapons if ya want (and im sure someone has tried) but you cant expect to be effective and win or survive easily and then rage when you end up dying. im sure there are some people who can manage stuff, but not everyone can so dont expect you can. If your way isnt cutting it, think outside of your box and come up with new ways to do it.

    Overall this topic screamed of the fact that the OP died while trying to get there (due to 'lag'), the explorers (however borked their scaling is atm) doesnt really warrant a rage post. so it was definately because he died due to 'lag' possibly losing his ship buffs. thus comes back to the point, Turbine is a business, so yes they include a pay option with their free options to get you to the quests, it helps cover the server cost and keeps the game running. There wouldnt be so much 'lag' if they made alot more money since they could then spend extra money on server equipment rather then just developing new content every couple of months.

    IS there lag, sure there's plenty of it, most of the time it is on the players end occassionally its server side (more often it seems server since entire parties lag) But even with the lag, if your entire party is wiping in the explorer area then YOUR NOT EE READY I dont care if you ran an EE before and lived, with or without someone holding your hand along the way. Just cause you played one EE doesnt mean your ready for all of them. and honestly, even with the borked scaling of the explorer areas, the borked explorer area for an epic party is still easier then just about all of the EE quests, so if your party is wiping there multiple times then you got more of a problem then lag. its called YOUR NOT EE READY (does this mean not to run them, no it just means dont expect to survive all the time while running them)

    honeslty I can understannd if 1-2 people die, especially in wheloon with those assassins since those are a pain with thier chains (FUN to fight but a pain. honestly, they make most of the challenge in the new content and I love them just the way they are, althought it seems that they are bugged and doing more damage then they're supposed to) but if its a complete party wipe then your doing something wrong, QUIT TRYING TO DO IT YOUR WAY And find the way to actually do it right, and obviously the quest will be nothing more then 1-2 people pulling the rest of the party through the quest, while they sit back and twiddle their thumbs, sure some people do that, and dont mind, frankly I dont really mind people who arent EE ready to try and play their hand at it, but dont go and RAGE afterwards from dying multiple times, even if it was on the way to the quest, it just meant that YOUR NOT READY and to either wait until you are or to keep trying to find better ways to go about it then you are currently trying.

    ~/rage~

  17. #77
    Community Member smckelv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bartharok View Post
    He got what he paid for, now he wants more. Thats wanting something for nothing.
    Your first statement invalidates the second. To pay (any positive integer) is not nothing. I like to teach my kids that the difference between fact and opinion usually comes down to numbers.

    Quote Originally Posted by bartharok View Post
    Wanting value would be if he didnt like the quality.
    I'm not going to pull out google-fu and pretend to be Ralph Nader, but value is generally thought in a consumer sense to be "getting more for money paid" and is commonly done at the expense of quality. Think 6 rolls of single-ply, rough toilet paper for the same price as 2 rolls of the good stuff.

    Quote Originally Posted by bartharok View Post
    As it stands he just wants the game made easy in the name of immersion. Real valuable. The value would be in the lesson made by withdrawing his gaming privileges for a week
    Strawman/putting words in others mouths. Also, who are you to ask for the last thing? This is a classic fallacy http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_baculum
    "baculum" comes from Latin "stick" and stems from ancient times practice of hitting arguers with a stick instead of good reasoning. Bully pulpit stuff....

    People want fun or dominance from MMOs. But they don't want real life.
    Check it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMrN3Rh55uM (The Guild)
    Cliché yea, but I have always chuckled at the scene where he beats up "real life(tm)". Also almost appropriate from the bullying I see is the first comment on that Youtube video from the wheelchair-bound person. A good example of how people bring lots of real life strengths and weaknesses to games. Asking for companies to realize that and listen less to the dominators and "don't like it, find another game" types....is reasonable.
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  18. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by bartharok View Post
    As it stands he just wants the game made easy in the name of immersion. Real valuable. The value would be in the lesson made by withdrawing his gaming privileges for a week
    Made easy. As in teleports for the cost of 3 or no shards?
    Last edited by IWIronheart; 08-26-2013 at 09:15 PM.

  19. #79
    Community Member bartharok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smckelv View Post
    Your first statement invalidates the second. To pay (any positive integer) is not nothing. I like to teach my kids that the difference between fact and opinion usually comes down to numbers.


    I'm not going to pull out google-fu and pretend to be Ralph Nader, but value is generally thought in a consumer sense to be "getting more for money paid" and is commonly done at the expense of quality. Think 6 rolls of single-ply, rough toilet paper for the same price as 2 rolls of the good stuff.


    Strawman/putting words in others mouths. Also, who are you to ask for the last thing? This is a classic fallacy http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_baculum
    "baculum" comes from Latin "stick" and stems from ancient times practice of hitting arguers with a stick instead of good reasoning. Bully pulpit stuff....

    People want fun or dominance from MMOs. But they don't want real life.
    Check it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMrN3Rh55uM (The Guild)
    Cliché yea, but I have always chuckled at the scene where he beats up "real life(tm)". Also almost appropriate from the bullying I see is the first comment on that Youtube video from the wheelchair-bound person. A good example of how people bring lots of real life strengths and weaknesses to games. Asking for companies to realize that and listen less to the dominators and "don't like it, find another game" types....is reasonable.
    He got exactly what he paid for. Now he wants something he hasnt paid for. Thats something for nothing in my book. Just because he doesnt like actually playing the game as it has been made doesnt entitle him to get it.

    I believe a person should be taught not to whine about how he cant get everything he wants is good practice. Unfortunately peole nowadays seem to think the fact that they exist entitles them to anything they wish. I find this disgusting.

    Oh, i know that people have the right to be of whatever opinion they wish, but freedom of opinion without being responsible for their opinions is not freedom at all. Its just tyranny of the many (and many tyrannies of one). If he wisg´hes to lay out a plan that people dislike (and any plan will be disliked by some), he can do so. But he will have to face the opinions of others, sometimes nasty ones. If he is protected from these opinions, he will not learn anything.

    I know that learning nothing is the utopia of many, but as my sig says: Dystopia is utopia achieved.

    Since people wish for utopia they will strive for it, and notice what they have paid for it and lost on the way only when it has been achieved. And that is everything. For safety, freedom, for freedom, justice, for justice, innocence, for innocence, reason. for reason humanity, and so forth.

    So do not tell me about my evils, i know myself, and judge myself accordingly. And judge others by the same standard.
    Dystopia = utopia achieved

  20. #80
    Community Member bartharok's Avatar
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    have you actually noticed what you defend by the way
    Dystopia = utopia achieved

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