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  1. #1
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    Default Horrible feeling. another map and tele thread. bait and switch? let us tele for free!

    Summary of this post:
    Let us teleport for free to every new quest entrance.

    I have already complained about the huge and deceptive maps, but now I am truly upset and angry and, and, and AAAAAHHRG ^%*$.

    Last night we were doing some EE Wheelon and, as we all know, the map is designed as a bait and switch. Bait you to come pay for (which is fine - I love this game and gladly paid for it) and play new content and then, (the fraud part), make such a nudging and horrible and painful map, they you pay MORE to get to the quest.

    Yes, I don't HAVE to pay.
    Yes, I can run to the quest.

    BUT NOT WHEN ITS SO LAGGY THAT YOU DIE GETTING THERE. THREE TIMES. 3 different instances. As I was in a good group of players I like playing with, and I wanted to play, I ended up paying to play for something I ALREADY PAID FOR. in REAL MONEY.

    And even when not lagging, it takes so much time to get to the quest, so many loading screens, so far away, THEY SHOULD LET YOU TELEPORT TO EVERY QUEST FOR FREE.

    Personally I hate wildernesses. It's there if you want it. I don't like it. Let me spend my time the way I want to and let me play what I PAYED for without making me waste more of my limited time, or paying more.

    I am getting sick of this.
    For the first time I started playing, I have this feeling of despair. Sure, I complained plenty about many small things in this game, but ever I knew that I would go back on later that night. For the first time, I am feeling, so disgusted, so punched in the stomach, that I don't know. I don't know.

    And I am not even talking about the abysmal loot. thats another thread. yea.
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  2. #2
    2014 DDO Players Council Flavilandile's Avatar
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    Yeah, Wilderness areas are annoying when they are in the way to reach quests.

    What made DDO being interesting was that you didn't have to waste your time running to quests...
    At worst ( before MoTU ) a run to quest was taking 1 minute form the nearest safe zone.
    At worst going from the most remote safe zone ( Restless Isle ) to the other most remote safe zone ( Amrath ) was less than 5 minutres ( especially if you had a teleport rod/scroll/spell at hand )

    But nowadays we have areas like King Forest, Stormhorn and Wheloon where it can takes a very long time ( in DDO time sense ) to reach the quests. And that's just plainly stupid as it drives people away.... and there's still so many doors in Stormreach and Eveningstar that cannot be opened.
    I'd really love for Turbine to stop making these areas and go back to the old a quest behind each door concept.

    Sure the wilderness are fun to explore, but that's it, they are unfun to cross when you want to reach a quest and it takes twice the time you will spend in quest to cross them. ( and no Astral Shards teleporters are NOT an option. )
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  3. #3
    Community Member Extispex's Avatar
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    I love wilderness areas. In fact, I've more or less spent the last ten in-game hours frolicking in The Storm Horns.

    I have not had any trouble with lag since returning to the game last month, and I'm playing from Europe. Latency is stable at about 120 ms (Ghallanda). Also, DDO is the only program I've installed on my (new and shiny) computer (with only SSD "disks").

  4. #4
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    Personally I would like wilderness areas made into spaces-between-quest-hubs more than areas-with-quests-in as they are now. So, to get to a new quest hub you'd have to run there (the first time, after that you can teleport). If the quests HAVE to be in the areas, make them easy and fast to get to.

    I like areas, I run through most of them while getting a character up. But when I want to do a quest, I don't want to run 10 minutes through an area just to get to it. I want to do the quest, not run the area.

    I don't want to do away with the areas. They can be fun, and many people like them. But there are also many that do not like one or more aspects of them, so let's separate quests from areas somewhat, so we can all do the parts we like without being forced to run something we don't like.
    It's definitely an N-word.

  5. #5
    Community Member TheLegendOfAra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flavilandile View Post
    But nowadays we have areas like King Forest, Stormhorn and Wheloon where it can takes a very long time ( in DDO time sense ) to reach the quests. And that's just plainly stupid as it drives people away.... and there's still so many doors in Stormreach and Eveningstar that cannot be opened.
    I'd really love for Turbine to stop making these areas and go back to the old a quest behind each door concept.

    Sure the wilderness are fun to explore, but that's it, they are unfun to cross when you want to reach a quest and it takes twice the time you will spend in quest to cross them. ( and no Astral Shards teleporters are NOT an option. )
    I love how seemingly everyone in these "OMG We hate Explorers!" Threads seems to have forgotten the typical Hour long trek through House C areas just to get to the Hour long raids. (Back before U14 and ED's and all that.) Or the average 30 minute run to VOD/HOX through the SubT. in a PUG?

    Yeah, this whole trek through the ridiculously long or painful wilderness areas to get to a quest is a completely new idea.

    The only thing to be upset about IMO is the fact the teleporter is an obvious money grab.
    This should be free.

    But saying these explorers are anything new is silly.
    Araphina Skycrow - 15Paladin/3Ranger/2Fighter (Life 8/25) 5xRanger, 3xPaladin
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  6. #6
    Community Member Extispex's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by TheLegendOfAra View Post
    I love how seemingly everyone in these "OMG We hate Explorers!" Threads seems to have forgotten the typical Hour long trek through House C areas just to get to the Hour long raids. (Back before U14 and ED's and all that.) Or the average 30 minute run to VOD/HOX through the SubT. in a PUG?

    Yeah, this whole trek through the ridiculously long or painful wilderness areas to get to a quest is a completely new idea.

    The only thing to be upset about IMO is the fact the teleporter is an obvious money grab.
    This should be free.

    But saying these explorers are anything new is silly.
    I agree completely. Besides, it is possible to teleport for free once you've found the teleport locations. Just like in Gianthold and The Restless Isles. The only difference between the new and the old ones is the option to teleport for AS without the need to explore first. It's all about convenience.

    If I'm going somewhere in real life I have several options, like walking or taking a taxi. Going by taxi is the most convenient way for me, but it's not free.

  7. #7
    Community Member TheLegendOfAra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dandonk View Post
    I don't want to do away with the areas. They can be fun, and many people like them. But there are also many that do not like one or more aspects of them, so let's separate quests from areas somewhat, so we can all do the parts we like without being forced to run something we don't like.
    This seems like an okay idea, but it wouldn't sit right with me from a lore perspective. If they had a way to teleport you to/near the quest entrances like in GH that is fine. But to me the quest has to be in the explorer if that's what the lore says. The quests in Sshindylryn would seem a lot less awesome to me if they were situated in the middle of an epic Drow city. If I could just *poof* into the quest from the middle of eveningstar it would ruin the feel of the quests for me. The same goes for a lot of quests.

    Some quests this can work with, like the quests that are actually in eveningstar for the most part, or in the other various areas; this is mostly due to them being designed with this in mind(I assume). Would you really enjoy quests more if you just disregard all of the lore, and everything else that makes these quests as good as they are?
    Araphina Skycrow - 15Paladin/3Ranger/2Fighter (Life 8/25) 5xRanger, 3xPaladin
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLegendOfAra View Post
    This seems like an okay idea, but it wouldn't sit right with me from a lore perspective. If they had a way to teleport you to/near the quest entrances like in GH that is fine. But to me the quest has to be in the explorer if that's what the lore says. The quests in Sshindylryn would seem a lot less awesome to me if they were situated in the middle of an epic Drow city. If I could just *poof* into the quest from the middle of eveningstar it would ruin the feel of the quests for me. The same goes for a lot of quests.

    Some quests this can work with, like the quests that are actually in eveningstar for the most part, or in the other various areas; this is mostly due to them being designed with this in mind(I assume). Would you really enjoy quests more if you just disregard all of the lore, and everything else that makes these quests as good as they are?
    Oh, I don't mind running a couple of minutes. I just don't feel like running 10-15 minutes just to get to the real action. So GH type teleports would be fine by me
    It's definitely an N-word.

  9. #9
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    I don't want to be poofed from my ship or the middle of ES.

    BUT, yes from the entrance to the wilderness.


    And to answer the poster who commented that it's not a new idea. Indeed, there are some other horrible maps, like sands.

    But it just seems worse with these new maps. As though they were designed as bait (buy the pack) and switch (pay MORE to play conveniently. As an example. Come to Walmart. Buy your stuff. Ah but if you want to bring it to your car, you need to rent the cart. Why, you don't HAVE to, just carry everything by hand.) Also, you can't jump from your ship to the the city area of Wheelan like you can with Vale, GH and Sands. And, after dieing once from lag from the wilderness, your key is on a stupid 30 min timer! And even THAT is still another loading screen from the city that is another screen from the wilderness.

    All I want it to let us have the fun we paid for. And again, for those of you whom like wildernesses, GREAT! Spend all the time you want in there. But let those of us who do NOT like wilderness, and all we want to do is challenge ourselves with EE quests, to DO THAT.

    The combination of a dark map, shadowfell effect, impassible walls, deceptive turns and routes, nudge factor, distance, lag (idc if you never have lag. Our entire party of EE ready toons wiped in there last night, twice) makes me want to pull my hair out. This is so easily solved by LETTING US TELEPORT FOR FREE TO THE QUESTS. And as the new quests are zerg unfriendly anyway, this wont let us farm them faster. it will just let us have fun the way we want, and not hurt anyone.
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  10. #10
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    I get that people aren't familiar with the new wilderness areas, and there's nothing that I can do about their lag. I practically never get lag but can appreciate the frustration it causes others.

    The AS shortcuts are cheesy, but also completely unnecessary. In the other thread complaining about the time it takes to reach quests, I put up a couple of videos showing that the longest time from Eveningstar loading screen to the furthest away Storm Horns quest entrance was 1 min 51 secs from the freebie harper camps. Wheloon prison is actually tiny by comparison, and the only key to reaching most quests is to learn one path across the rooftops to the western end around the central section that's closed off.

    Once you're familiar with these areas, you can get to the quests in no time at all. If you remember the time it used to take you to find your way around Gianthold compared to the time it takes you now, you'll see how that familiarity makes it a piece of cake.

    They've set the model for teleport shortcuts with the latest update. If they add a new teleport guide to existing areas, it will come with an AS cost. There isn't a hope in hell it'll be free. I think asking for more teleports is one of those 'be careful what you wish for' things.

  11. #11
    Community Member TheLegendOfAra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deadlock View Post
    The AS shortcuts are cheesy, but also completely unnecessary. In the other thread complaining about the time it takes to reach quests, I put up a couple of videos showing that the longest time from Eveningstar loading screen to the furthest away Storm Horns quest entrance was 1 min 51 secs from the freebie harper camps. Wheloon prison is actually tiny by comparison, and the only key to reaching most quests is to learn one path across the rooftops to the western end around the central section that's closed off.

    Once you're familiar with these areas, you can get to the quests in no time at all. If you remember the time it used to take you to find your way around Gianthold compared to the time it takes you now, you'll see how that familiarity makes it a piece of cake.
    Pretty much this. Give it some time and you'll find the trek isn't so bad anymore.
    Hell, I remember not to long ago getting lost in King's Forest trying to find the 3rd quest in the chain. Spent a good hour and a half trying to find it.
    And now it takes me about 1 minute even when not using the teleporter to the camp.

    Also, could You link that thread you mentioned? My search-fu is weak at 6AM when I'm half asleep.
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLegendOfAra View Post
    Also, could You link that thread you mentioned? My search-fu is weak at 6AM when I'm half asleep.
    Eveningstar to Lines of Supply via Southwest camp was 48 seconds.

    Eveningstar to The Tracker's Trap directly was 48 seconds.

    Eveningstar to Breaking the Ranks via North camp was 60 seconds.

    Eveningstar to What Goes Up via North camp was 1 min 50 seconds.

    Eveningstar to A Break in the Ice via North camp was 1 min 51 seconds.

    Not having the southwest camp won't make any real difference, it's not far from the entrance to the Storm Horns.

    The only camp you really want to have to save time is the North harper camp which is at my location on the map.

    Oh yeah, and if you watch the videos you'll see that there's a clearly marked path for you to follow to get to the actual quest entrances ....

  13. #13
    Community Member TheLegendOfAra's Avatar
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    Thank you very much!
    Araphina Skycrow - 15Paladin/3Ranger/2Fighter (Life 8/25) 5xRanger, 3xPaladin
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deadlock View Post
    I get that people aren't familiar with the new wilderness areas, and there's nothing that I can do about their lag. I practically never get lag but can appreciate the frustration it causes others.

    They've set the model for teleport shortcuts with the latest update. If they add a new teleport guide to existing areas, it will come with an AS cost. There isn't a hope in hell it'll be free. I think asking for more teleports is one of those 'be careful what you wish for' things.
    That is mainly why I am upset, the astral shard charge. And why I brought up flying mounts particularly as a compromise for Turbine to cash in and something players would buy. WoW did not invent animals used for riding. D&D has mounts of various types, typically horses. But, rly who the heck wants a non flyer?

    It makes the wilderness and public spaces that more immersive. Think about a game like Skyrim, and how they make use of teleporting to quest, horse, carriage rides, good ole explore it yourself, open menu click a quest go there options.... Anyone still think or want to tell me that they dont want their players immersed? Players love their graphics, open world feel. Few people have said it takes away from their explorer experience in ddo by skipping all the content, but that's an option one should be able to have as part of their own gaming experience.

  15. #15
    Community Member bartharok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dandonk View Post
    Oh, I don't mind running a couple of minutes. I just don't feel like running 10-15 minutes just to get to the real action. So GH type teleports would be fine by me
    In the storm horns you have the GH type teleport, as soon as you find the teleport spot. After that the qyests can be reached in a few minutes.

    And as for the alg the OP reported i havent seen any, but then again, i almost never lag, so its not something i can say anything about.

    And i love the explorers, and dont want to be forced to teleport, which is what the free teleports would soon enough force me to do if i dont solo, thanks to the xp/min people.
    Dystopia = utopia achieved

  16. #16
    Community Member bartharok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rubbinns View Post
    That is mainly why I am upset, the astral shard charge. And why I brought up flying mounts particularly as a compromise for Turbine to cash in and something players would buy. WoW did not invent animals used for riding. D&D has mounts of various types, typically horses. But, rly who the heck wants a non flyer?

    It makes the wilderness and public spaces that more immersive. Think about a game like Skyrim, and how they make use of teleporting to quest, horse, carriage rides, good ole explore it yourself, open menu click a quest go there options.... Anyone still think or want to tell me that they dont want their players immersed? Players love their graphics, open world feel. Few people have said it takes away from their explorer experience in ddo by skipping all the content, but that's an option one should be able to have as part of their own gaming experience.
    HAving a flying mount would not make it any more immersive. Unless by immersive you mean xp/min.
    Dystopia = utopia achieved

  17. #17
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SSFWEl View Post
    Yes, I don't HAVE to pay.
    Yes, I can run to the quest.

    BUT NOT WHEN ITS SO LAGGY THAT YOU DIE GETTING THERE. THREE TIMES.
    Your problem appears to be with lag, not large explorer maps (that have FREE teleporters built in anyway, so no real problem there).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eth View Post
    When you stop caring about xp/min this game becomes really fun. Trust me.
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    No single character has all the skills and resources needed to guarantee success in all endeavors; favorable results can usually only be achieved through group effort. No single player character wins, in the sense that he or she defeats all other player characters; the goal of the forces of good can only be attained through cooperation, so that victory is a group achievement rather than an individual one.

  18. #18
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deadlock View Post
    Once you're familiar with these areas, you can get to the quests in no time at all. If you remember the time it used to take you to find your way around Gianthold compared to the time it takes you now, you'll see how that familiarity makes it a piece of cake.
    This. You're mad about the lag, not the explorer area... Someday you'll know it like the back of your hand.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eth View Post
    When you stop caring about xp/min this game becomes really fun. Trust me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gary_Gygax
    No single character has all the skills and resources needed to guarantee success in all endeavors; favorable results can usually only be achieved through group effort. No single player character wins, in the sense that he or she defeats all other player characters; the goal of the forces of good can only be attained through cooperation, so that victory is a group achievement rather than an individual one.

  19. #19
    Community Member Therigar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SSFWEl View Post
    Our entire party of EE ready toons wiped in there last night, twice.
    I get the feeling that your group really isn't EE ready....

    One thing I notice a lot of, when a player who is "EE ready" dies it is ALWAYS lag and never whatever stupid thing they were doing because they thought their character was invincible.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by bartharok View Post
    HAving a flying mount would not make it any more immersive. Unless by immersive you mean xp/min.
    It actually does. Better views, screenshots, feeling of flying through a vast wilderness.

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