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  1. #1
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    Default My attempt at a Fochlucan Lyrist build

    A Fochlucan lyrist, for those who don't know is a PrC from the Complete Adventurer supplement book. It's basically a combination of Rogue, Bard, and Druid because of the requirements (Evasion, Perform, ability to cast 1st level Arcane and Divine spells, Knowledge Nature, and the ability to speak the Druidic Language). Now, the advantage of the p&p version is a huge one: Every level of FL grants +1 to each Arcane and Divine spell caster level, so you're basically leveling as both a Druid and a Bard. That doesn't exist here, nor do some of the requirements, so this build is purely for fun.

    The best way to build this in p&p is to start with 2 Rog, then 4 Brd, then 4 Drd. At level 11 start finishing with FL.

    However, because of the new PrE's in DDO and the lack of requirement to change to an actual class for Prestige, I have tweaked the class selection a bit.

    Starting off instead with three levels of rogue to get the Thief Acrobat ability to use Dex for Staff damage. Next we're taking 1 Druid level, simply to meet the "requirements" and also get access to a couple great spells and the free Magical Training feat. The build is meant to be played primarily as a musician, so more Bard levels will help to show this. The final class difference will be 3 Rog/1 Druid/16 Bard. That third Rogue level is normally rather useless in multiclass builds, but in this case it's going to be a huge help. If you want more Druid spells and the Wild Shape ability, feel free to go 3/3/14.

    Now, into Attributes. Because this is such a varied class, my attributes are spread out pretty thin.

    With a 32 Pt. Build (and no tomes cuz im poor!):

    Sihndralla of the Fochlucan

    10 Str
    14 Dex
    10 Con
    14 Int
    14 Wis
    16 Cha

    I went with Elf because the race really fits all three of the classes, especially with House P being home to Elven Bards. But if you want to maximize Attribute distribution, a TR into Halfling might be the way to go (+2 Dex, -2 Str, which is great because the Thief-Acro Dex damage for Staffs gets around the hit to Str). Then of course maxing all stats with tomes if you can manage it!

    The choice to go with staff was made for two reasons. The first being the Thief-Acro ability, but also because of the Druid's Shillelagh spell. Sihndralla is currently level 7 with a +2 QS of Riposte that has +14 Attack - not too bad for only having a +4 BAB. This toon is also brand new and I don't have much in the way of equipment yet. Its damage also gets an additional +1d6 instead of only half like other wooden weapons. With careful focus on making melee better, this class is going to be very formidable up close. A good supplement to the spell casting power to come.

    Skills are also going to be rather difficult, especially if you want to make good use of Disable, Search, Open, and Spot. The main focus though, since this is primarily a Bardic spell casting class, will be on Perform, Concentration, and Spellcraft. Secondary skills I am using are Bluff (TA Rogue's Sly Flourish), Disable, Open, Search, and Spot. With the extra points from the 2 Rogue levels at start, I also boosted Tumble, Hide, and Move Silently. Anything else you want is up to you, if you can afford it. Like I said though, the diversity of the skills here and the low mediocre Int score are going to wear you thin so be smart about it. If you can get a big Int tome, I'd suggest doing that.

    Now we come to feats. If you chose a Human, go with Weapon Focus: Bludgeon as the Bonus feat. I'm listing here the ones I chose for my Elf. I'll make a second list of feats I'd recommend for other races (or Elves who don't want the DM)

    1st level: Toughness
    3rd level: Extend Spell
    6th level: Least DM of Shadow
    9th level: Mental Toughness
    12th level: Lesser DM of Shadow
    15th level: Maximize Spell
    18th level: Greater DM of Shadow

    ------

    1st: Toughness
    3rd: Extend Spell
    6th: Mental Toughness
    9th: Heighten Spell
    12th: Improved Mental Tougness
    15th: Quicken Spell
    18th: Maximize Spell


    Now for the spells. My focus for arcane spells is on useful spells that (mostly) tie into the theme of being a Bard - hypnotic/charming/captivating spells for good CC and sonic spells for damage. Additional Bard spells, as well as my divine Druid spells, will help to boost combat abilities of me and my allies.

    Bard:

    Caster level 1 spells: Focusing Chant (@Lv1), Otto's Irr. Dance (@Lv2), Sleep (@Lv3), Sonic Blast (@Lv5)
    Caster level 2 spells: Soundburst and Blur (@Lv4), Heroism (@Lv5), Hold Person (@Lv7)
    Caster level 3 spells: Haste and Displacement (@Lv7), Good Hope (@Lv8), Deep Slumber (@Lv10)
    Caster level 4 spells: Otto's Sphere of Dancing and Shout @Lv10

    Once you've got all 10 Bard levels, go ahead and use the spell reset to get rid of old and redundant spells. Replace Sleep, Blur, and Otto's Irr. Dance with other spells you will find useful in your adventures.

    Druid spells:

    Shillelagh and Ram's Might. The DDOwiki page says Druids get 3 spells at first level in addition to the Spontaneous spell, but mine only has 2. I'm guessing it's because my Wis mod is only +2. Anyway, any spell will work as the third choice (and fourth if you go 3/3/14)

    If you choose to take three levels of Druid, you can pretty much choose any of the second level spells to prepare. The main spells you want for the build though are Ram's Might and Shillelagh as they will beef up your melee capabilities the best of all the spells available to this build.

    PrE's

    For this build, I'm focusing on the Rogue's Thief Acrobat, the Druid's Nature's Warrior, and the Bard's Warchanter. These PrE's work incredibly well together. I'm not going into level 2 or 3 NW PrE's because, well, I just haven't taken the time to see how well they'd work with the other two PrE's. I don't plan on taking more than 1 Druid level. If you are considering it, you might wanna check out the bonuses offered by NW's level 2 and 3 PrE choices. Could be something useful there to help sway your opinion.

    Level 1 Choices

    Thief Acrobat:

    Acrobat
    Staff Training
    Thief Acrobatics x3
    Charming x3
    Sly Flourish x3
    Faster Sneaking x3

    Charming increases an important skill for this build - Bluff. This meshes well with the Nature's Warrior ability Shifting Rake, which lowers enemy AC when they are successfully bluffed.

    Thief Acrobatics increases Balance, Jump, and Tumble as well as your melee attack speed. The skill increases can be combined, if desired, with the Nature's Warrior ability Athletic (which also increases Swim.) Now, moving into ---

    Nature's Warrior:

    Nature's Warrior
    Shifting Rake x3
    Aggrivate x3
    Athletic x3 (optional)

    Aggrivate gives you DR whenever you successfully Intimidate an enemy, or use an ability that triggers its skill check. The Intimidate bonus granted by TA's Charming is another plus to the combination of these PrE's. A third ability that adds to the Intimidate bonus is Focused, which we get from the ---

    Warchanter:

    Skaldic Rage
    Focused x3
    Rough and Ready x3
    Poetic Edda x3
    Inspired Bravery x3

    Rough and Ready's initial acquisition gives you a +2 to your AC, which right of the bat cuts the penalty from your Skaldic Rage in half. Not too shabby.


    Level 2 Choices

    TA:
    Staff Training
    Quick Strike x3
    Haste Boost x3
    Subtlety x3
    Trip Focus x3

    Three these deal strictly with your combat prowess with a Quarterstaff. The first increases your attack again, the second increasing damage and Double Strike chance, and we all know what Haste Boost does. Subtlety generates less hate, which will make up for a penalty granted by an ability from ---

    WC:
    Boast x3 > Words of Encouragement x3
    Gathering Cold x3 > Iced Edges
    Sprint Boost x3

    Boast and WoC will give you a bonus to HP with any Song you sing, and a greater bonus specifically with Inspire Courage. Boast will also give you a bonus to weapon damage and increased hate generation (some of which gets negated through the use of Subtlety). Gathering Cold is rather situational, but will indeed come in handy when it's needed. It grants a chance to absorb the energy of cold damage against you and turn it into stacking bonuses to AC and Cold Resistance. Gathering Cold also opens up Iced Edges and a level 3 ability, Northwind. Iced Edges gives you +1d6 Cold Damage when Gathering Cold is combined with Skaldic Rage. Sprint Boost for increased movement speed.

    Level 3 Choices

    TA:
    Stick Training
    Sweeping Strike x3
    Shadow Dodge x3
    Dex increase
    Stick Fighting

    Sweeping Strikes is a melee attack with your quarterstaff that deals additional damage and attempts to trip all enemies around you. Trip Focus gives you a bonus to your DC's. Improved Trip is a great feat option if you want to focus more on your melee combat than spell casting. Shadow Dodge grants bonuses to Dodge and Dexterity. Stick Fighting lets you use your Dex modifier as your damage modifier with quarterstaves.

    WC:
    Ironskin Chant
    Frozen Fury
    Northwind
    Charisma increase
    Fighting Spirit

    Ironskin chant gives allies a DR bonus. Frozen Fury increases your weapon damage and has a chance to freeze your enemies solid. Northwind gives you additional cold damage on a vorpal strike while using Skaldic Rage and Gathering Cold. Fighting Spirit grants a passive +10 HP and an additional +1 to damage with your Inspire Courage

    Level 4 Choices

    WC:
    Charisma bonus

    Pretty much finish out with any of the level 5 WC PrE's you see fit for your play style, and with the level 6, 9, and 12 PrE's for WC.

    I'm not even going to get into items because I have no clue what's out there anymore. Pretty much just focus on Stat boosts, damage output, and skill bonuses.



    So there you have it, the Fochlucan Lyrist. Typically these characters fill the roles of advisers, spies, scouts, thieves, trapists, guides, entertainers, scholars...very very diverse in the types of lives they can live. Sadly, DDO doesn't allow the true greatness of the intended build to flourish.

    If anyone has any tips to improve on the build, they would be much appreciated Just don't be an a hole about it :\

  2. #2
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    You may want to look into taking a few more druid lvls; in particular, druid 3 would let you add Vengeful Hunter, Double Strike action boost, and Fatal Harrier (or Reaving Roar) for 13 APs, if I'm adding right. [The sonic vulnerability from Fatesinger might be the only way to keep RR at all useful in epics.] Also, 4 APs into SH gets you Beguile, which is a nice little stacking debuff.

    EDIT: I'm less than wild about your feats; you didn't take anything to boost your melee DPS. IC:Blunt and Power Atk/CL/GC are practically de facto pre-reqs on any staff build, IMHO. I also don't see why you dumped STR & CON for so much WIS & CHA.
    Last edited by unbongwah; 08-26-2013 at 11:26 AM.

  3. #3
    Community Member mezzorco's Avatar
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    Note: lesser and greater DM are racial enhancements now.
    Premise: I could sound rude, but it's because english is not my main language I'm trying to help you and really don't want to offend you, your efforts in such a thematic build are praiseworthy

    Your stats:
    10 Str
    14 Dex
    10 Con
    14 Int
    14 Wis
    16 Cha

    Why 14 wis? it only adds to will saves, no other benefit.

    Why 16 cha on a warchanter?
    I don't think you're going to have good DC, in my opinion it's a very thematic build but you will be "master of none" more than "jack of all trades".

    Moreover, there are many more ways to increase Str over Dex (and Skaldic Rage is one of them, you can cast rage spell too and they stack). I don't know if going dex with this build is a good option.

    Only 10 Con is going to hurt much more than you would expect, especially if you intend to melee.

    If I were you I would do:
    10 18 14 14 10 10 or even
    8 20 14 12 8 10

    More hit/damage, more hp, more fort and ref (but you would still lack PA, cleave, gcleave, impr crit, OC).


    Or, if you still prefer spellcasting:
    10 14 12 12 8 18

    More hp, more DC, very lacking in melee.

    Long story short:
    I love pnp, and I prefer it over DDO. But your try is difficult in DDO world, these games are simply too different.
    If you are the "flavour and roleplay" kind of player, then I must congratulate with you for your efforts, it perfectly fits the theme of that very nice PrC.
    Otherwise, if you still take into account build capability, I think you should focus either on spellcasting (consider spellsinger) or melee (change stat distribution and feats), because you're dissipating your energies.

    Hope it helps

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    You may want to look into taking a few more druid lvls; in particular, druid 3 would let you add Vengeful Hunter, Double Strike action boost, and Fatal Harrier (or Reaving Roar) for 13 APs, if I'm adding right. [The sonic vulnerability from Fatesinger might be the only way to keep RR at all useful in epics.] Also, 4 APs into SH gets you Beguile, which is a nice little stacking debuff.

    EDIT: I'm less than wild about your feats; you didn't take anything to boost your melee DPS. IC:Blunt and Power Atk/CL/GC are practically de facto pre-reqs on any staff build, IMHO. I also don't see why you dumped STR & CON for so much WIS & CHA.
    After playing it some more I've realized that I do prefer the melee side of the build over the spellcasting. The dump was because I was too focused on being able to cast spells. Strength I wasn't too worried about anyway because of the TA's Stick Fighting. Con was the second choice because I knew I would need Dex for the Att/Dmg for the build, Int for as many skill points as possible, and Wis & Cha for spellcasting.

    And you're absolutely right about the feats. This build, I think, is better suited for melee in DDO because of the lack of the FL class feature that keeps increasing caster level.

    Now that I know I prefer melee more, I'm going scrap the toon and rebuild it. (already used free LR)

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by mezzorco View Post
    Note: lesser and greater DM are racial enhancements now.
    Premise: I could sound rude, but it's because english is not my main language I'm trying to help you and really don't want to offend you, your efforts in such a thematic build are praiseworthy

    Your stats:
    10 Str
    14 Dex
    10 Con
    14 Int
    14 Wis
    16 Cha

    Why 14 wis? it only adds to will saves, no other benefit.

    Why 16 cha on a warchanter?
    I don't think you're going to have good DC, in my opinion it's a very thematic build but you will be "master of none" more than "jack of all trades".

    Moreover, there are many more ways to increase Str over Dex (and Skaldic Rage is one of them, you can cast rage spell too and they stack). I don't know if going dex with this build is a good option.

    Only 10 Con is going to hurt much more than you would expect, especially if you intend to melee.

    If I were you I would do:
    10 18 14 14 10 10 or even
    8 20 14 12 8 10

    More hit/damage, more hp, more fort and ref (but you would still lack PA, cleave, gcleave, impr crit, OC).


    Or, if you still prefer spellcasting:
    10 14 12 12 8 18

    More hp, more DC, very lacking in melee.

    Long story short:
    I love pnp, and I prefer it over DDO. But your try is difficult in DDO world, these games are simply too different.
    If you are the "flavour and roleplay" kind of player, then I must congratulate with you for your efforts, it perfectly fits the theme of that very nice PrC.
    Otherwise, if you still take into account build capability, I think you should focus either on spellcasting (consider spellsinger) or melee (change stat distribution and feats), because you're dissipating your energies.

    Hope it helps
    Thank you very much for the input, and you didn't sound rude at all! So basically both you and the other poster suggested lowering the magical abilities and increasing the melee ones. I still don't really see the point in increasing strength as I can get way more use out of Dex. I have Vet 7 so early levels aren't even an issue. I have a Rogue/Monk TA build and I started it with I think 16 Str and 16 Dex. At level 18 I'm seeing that I should have gone with a much lower Str and put those extra points into Dex.

    And thank you very much for the praise. This is a build that I've always wanted to do in p&p but never had the chance because there were already spellcasters. So I figured I could give it a try in DDO and see how it played out. It's going fairly well, but I definitely see some improvement by tweaking the starting stat distribution.

  6. #6
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    If I had to build this on a bard chassis keeping the staff flavor

    Rogue 5 Thief-Acrobat for +1 threat/multiplier
    Druid 2 for ram's, shillelagh, doublestrike boost... and beguile abuse while it lasts
    Bard 13 (meh, but still gets 5th level spells - GH+CLWMass)

    Human, strength based
    18 STR, 14 CON, 14 INT; rest into cha or con
    Or less STR and few points into Dex so that your evasion actually kicks in at least occasionally.

    Strength at lvl 12: 18 +3 levelups +2 tome + 6 item = 29; +3 from enhancements (human, 2x rogue) = 32. Rage (spell) +2, Ram's Might +2, Skaldic Rage +4 = 40 self-buffed sustainable; perhaps more while actionboosting

    Power Attack, Cleave, Extend, Great Cleave, IC:Blunt, Empower Healing, Overwhelming Crit; THF chain and/or quicken

  7. #7
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    So I kept asking myself why everyone is going for Str over Dex when you can use Dex for staff damage...

    Then I went looking for the Thief-Acrobat's Showtime


    And it's gone. DDO got rid of one of the best things about the TA.

    I'm not liking these new enhancements. I'm seeing more negative things on the classes i play than positive.

    Like the Ranger losing Sprint boost, what the hell man

    But I yeah i see the point in going with Strength build. More ways to increase Strength than Dexterity.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by cru121 View Post
    If I had to build this on a bard chassis keeping the staff flavor

    Rogue 5 Thief-Acrobat for +1 threat/multiplier
    Druid 2 for ram's, shillelagh, doublestrike boost... and beguile abuse while it lasts
    Bard 13 (meh, but still gets 5th level spells - GH+CLWMass)

    Human, strength based
    18 STR, 14 CON, 14 INT; rest into cha or con
    Or less STR and few points into Dex so that your evasion actually kicks in at least occasionally.

    Strength at lvl 12: 18 +3 levelups +2 tome + 6 item = 29; +3 from enhancements (human, 2x rogue) = 32. Rage (spell) +2, Ram's Might +2, Skaldic Rage +4 = 40 self-buffed sustainable; perhaps more while actionboosting

    Power Attack, Cleave, Extend, Great Cleave, IC:Blunt, Empower Healing, Overwhelming Crit; THF chain and/or quicken
    Shadow Dodge definitely makes the dex build worth it. I can't afford tomes because my toons never make enough plat for them. I have a Rogue/Monk/Druid staff build and it's sitting at 38 Dex at level 13. Considering that the 40 str you calculated includes a +2 tome, it's the same as what I have now in dex. And that's a 38 that doesn't rely on spells/abilities that are on timers. However, I CAN get it up to 40 with the +2 to Dex from human Action Boost. And I'm definitely going to be scrapping the feats I had picked in favor of PA, Cleave, GC, etc.

  9. #9
    Community Member Toro12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UinseanRianAchta View Post
    Shadow Dodge definitely makes the dex build worth it. I can't afford tomes because my toons never make enough plat for them. I have a Rogue/Monk/Druid staff build and it's sitting at 38 Dex at level 13. Considering that the 40 str you calculated includes a +2 tome, it's the same as what I have now in dex. And that's a 38 that doesn't rely on spells/abilities that are on timers. However, I CAN get it up to 40 with the +2 to Dex from human Action Boost. And I'm definitely going to be scrapping the feats I had picked in favor of PA, Cleave, GC, etc.
    Remember you still need 13 base str to get power attack.

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