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  1. #21
    Community Member der_kluge's Avatar
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    Mine was mostly unchanged. I did manage to easily pick up wrack construct, which I didn't have before. So that was a bonus.

    I noticed that my BB crit'd for over 500 last night against a bear in an Evingstar challenge. So that was new.
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  2. #22
    Community Member Certon's Avatar
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    The only problem I can see with what they've done by splitting up the Artificer, is that they've taken away the versatility that may have enticed buyers to purchase the class in the first place, and now the Artificer as they knew it is impossible to construct.

    People bought Artificers in a certain form factor, and know that form factor has been changed, and from a certain point of view, crippled. In good faith, people purchased the Artificer class, thinking they'd have it throughout the lifetime of the game, and have had it switched out for three different classes, none of which is as versatile as the one originally designed.

  3. #23
    Community Member Havok.cry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Certon View Post
    The only problem I can see with what they've done by splitting up the Artificer, is that they've taken away the versatility that may have enticed buyers to purchase the class in the first place, and now the Artificer as they knew it is impossible to construct.

    People bought Artificers in a certain form factor, and know that form factor has been changed, and from a certain point of view, crippled. In good faith, people purchased the Artificer class, thinking they'd have it throughout the lifetime of the game, and have had it switched out for three different classes, none of which is as versatile as the one originally designed.
    I disagree. My artificer is even more versatile than before. This was not a bad change for artificers (once bugs are worked out anyway.). It might be true if you couldn't get stuff from every tree, but you can, so it is not true (from my point of view anyway).

    How is your's now lacking in versatility?
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  4. #24
    Community Member Ashlayna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Certon View Post
    The only problem I can see with what they've done by splitting up the Artificer, is that they've taken away the versatility that may have enticed buyers to purchase the class in the first place, and now the Artificer as they knew it is impossible to construct.

    People bought Artificers in a certain form factor, and know that form factor has been changed, and from a certain point of view, crippled. In good faith, people purchased the Artificer class, thinking they'd have it throughout the lifetime of the game, and have had it switched out for three different classes, none of which is as versatile as the one originally designed.
    I'm really not having this issue. At 20/1, I'm not doing worse than I was at 19 and 20 before the pass. I bought it way back when it first came out, and frankly, it's still the goto class if I want to farm some easy favor on another server.

  5. #25
    The Hatchery CThruTheEgo's Avatar
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    I have to disagree. My arti is as effective as ever. Other than crit damage, not much has really changed. The capstone was always just OK imo, not much of a loss.

    Dubbell has been updated for U19. Have a look at the link in my sig if you're looking for ideas. I still have a few modifications to make, but it's mostly complete.
    Totally Bass Ackwards ~ int based/heavy armored pure tempest<>The Count of Monte Cristo ~ dps/CC/survivability focused pure swashbuckler<>Santa's Little Slayer ~ dragonmarked elf centered kensai<>Hassan's Assassin ~ 76 DC/dps/survivability focused human assassin<>Dubbell O'Seven ~ casting/ranged WF artificer

  6. #26

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    I don’t know what you people are doing so wrong on your artificers. I wound up with more Force spell power and the addition of Fire and Electrical spell power after u19 went live. (235 to 265 for anyone interested, and I didn't have the Spellcraft skill to boost it even more.) If they got kicked in the jimmies, it's the same jimmie kick that all the other caster classes in DDO took.

    (Anyway, back to relevelling my Artificer, I took the +20 Heart as an invitation to get another Barbarian PL.)
    Things that if Turbine went all EXTREME PREJUDICE™ on, would actually make the game fun again.:
    • Giving us the racial PrE’s we were promised, before rolling out DDOStore™ Enhancement Trees.
    • Fixing physical defense for Rangers and Rogues. It’s ridiculous that you’re better off wearing Heavy Armor and ignoring your innate feats on these classes.
    • Cannith Crafting.
    • Update the named loot to put them on the same system.
    • Fixing the Cannith Challenges so that they can be 6 starred without incredible luck or store bought items.
    • Fixing all challenges to give us decent XP and ingredient returns for the unreasonable time we have to spend in most of them.

  7. #27
    Community Member Toro12's Avatar
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    Have to say I'm super happy with the arti changes in the updates.
    Then again I'm way biased by it helping my specific build. An absolute metric Schinizet Ton.

    Ya see I was going against the usual path and was going electric focus. So getting electric SLAs , sweet.

  8. #28
    The Hatchery GeneralDiomedes's Avatar
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    I actually quite liked the addition of SLAs. Rune Arms are OK .. but when I want an AOE it's usually a sub-second requirement.

  9. #29
    Community Member BlackSteel's Avatar
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    disappointed with the arti changes. its nice to gain spellpower in several schools. But lacking a boost to acid is disappointing. Not that the enhancements make up a huge % of the critical chance anyway after the feats starting at 5 and items going up to 16%.

    for me, I gained some mobility with the rune arm. but the dc's are still crappy for EE content.

    gains:
    Rune arm mobility
    higher spellpower

    loss:
    previous capstone


    I find that a good trade off. I could still solo most EE's w/o much difficulty. The let down comes from how the build stacks up in comparison to other toys.

    1) Previously an acid / force specced arti. The arcano tree has a ton of electric toys and even a fun debuff, but almost zero benefit if you don't care to use a lightning rune arm; and I could really care less for the SLA's. I seldom bothered to load them as real spells, even as cheap SLA's I wont use them; I'd rather pay attention to other things. (manual clicking attack speed, pin, whistler, rune arm, blade barrier, proper targeting for IPS)

    2) cross-class comparison, or pure vs multiclass comparison. very little reason to go pure now unless you absolutely insist on keeping the old capstone. the benefit of the battle engineer capstone is easily replaced in a red socket, or 1d10 equivalent. For two class levels I can grab a whole lot more than 1d10 worth of elemental damage. the loss of caster levels isn't a huge deal with the state of end game saves. Even deeper splashes look more promising. Both deepwood and kensei have huge appeal

    What Battle engineer needs is another desireable tier 5 ability. Rune arm mobility is cool, but by itself in the current endgame is not as desireable as +1 crit threat range along with a spammable high damage clicky or doubling or archers focus cap for tank and spanking.

    I've gone ahead and used the +20 heart to pick up another PL, and will be tr'ing a few times before settling back into an arti again. Next one will play like an arti, but will likely have some other class symbol
    Shadowsteel [TR train wreck]

  10. #30
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    I'm confused what people are seeing as having lost compared to before...you can build an arti, under the current EP, that has exactly the same functionality as an old 20 arti with the capstone. You can get EF, the capstone, +2-4 Int, Runearm enhancers, and recoup the same spellpower through +Universal from Arcanotech and BE runearm bonus (and training Spellcraft, +Spellcraft items, etc.). Crits are way up from before.

    I think people are mostly complaining because they cant have all the functionality they used to have, AND take all the shiny new toys like SLAs. There may be some isolated examples of things that are really gone (like Improved UMD, maybe), but nothing that's changing your basic functionality that radically.

  11. #31
    Community Member BlackSteel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by droid327 View Post
    I'm confused what people are seeing as having lost compared to before...you can build an arti, under the current EP, that has exactly the same functionality as an old 20 arti with the capstone. You can get EF, the capstone, +2-4 Int, Runearm enhancers, and recoup the same spellpower through +Universal from Arcanotech and BE runearm bonus (and training Spellcraft, +Spellcraft items, etc.). Crits are way up from before.

    I think people are mostly complaining because they cant have all the functionality they used to have, AND take all the shiny new toys like SLAs. There may be some isolated examples of things that are really gone (like Improved UMD, maybe), but nothing that's changing your basic functionality that radically.
    no acid line, but several end game acid rune arms
    loss of crit multiplier, which helped increase burst DPS potential in EE, as most of the time the mob is saving on the blast, but atleast you could get a crit for decent damage

    For all intents and purposes they took a tier 1 PrE and spread it over five tiers. The only truly new abilities plop down at tier 5 or lvl 20. The arcano tree is mostly new enhancements; but those SLA's are **** unless you want to use lightning rune arms.
    Shadowsteel [TR train wreck]

  12. #32
    Community Member Havok.cry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackSteel View Post
    For all intents and purposes they took a tier 1 PrE and spread it over five tiers. The only truly new abilities plop down at tier 5 or lvl 20. The arcano tree is mostly new enhancements; but those SLA's are **** unless you want to use lightning rune arms.
    Lightning sphere stuns. That makes it useful whether it does lots of damage or not. Especially for melee arties.

    It does suck that they took out acid enhancements, but to me it was no great loss, as I preferred using rune arms that were the same elements as the spells I might use, and I had no acid spells. The synergy just wasn't there for me.

    I was pretty disappointed with what they did for the battle engineer tree, and I mostly agree with your assessment of it.
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  13. #33
    Community Member Certon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok.cry View Post
    I disagree. My artificer is even more versatile than before. This was not a bad change for artificers (once bugs are worked out anyway.). It might be true if you couldn't get stuff from every tree, but you can, so it is not true (from my point of view anyway).

    How is your's now lacking in versatility?
    Actually, I take back what I said. You can rebuild the Arty almost exactly as it was previously. I just took the capstone from the wrong Prestige class, an ability the Artificer did not have previously.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackSteel View Post
    no acid line, but several end game acid rune arms
    loss of crit multiplier, which helped increase burst DPS potential in EE, as most of the time the mob is saving on the blast, but atleast you could get a crit for decent damage

    For all intents and purposes they took a tier 1 PrE and spread it over five tiers. The only truly new abilities plop down at tier 5 or lvl 20. The arcano tree is mostly new enhancements; but those SLA's are **** unless you want to use lightning rune arms.
    hmm, you may have lost the spell lines, but if your going for the old capstone your going to be spending atleast 41 pts in arcanotech (thus getting 41 Universal spell power), plus spell craft is an arti class skill (so 23(+8epic)ranks, plus your intel mod which is probably above 30 (so atleast 20mod) for 92 right there, more then likely you'll have a higher intel,

    (+11 intel gloves, +3 insightful, +1 exceptional, 4-5 for trees, makes about 19-20 just from trees/items. then you got your base, which should be above 10) so obviously it shouldnt be too hard to get the same spell power. if your building to get the old capstone, plus you gain the spellpower of all the other lines so you can swap out rune arms more effectively now then you could before.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Violith View Post
    hmm, you may have lost the spell lines, but if your going for the old capstone your going to be spending atleast 41 pts in arcanotech (thus getting 41 Universal spell power), plus spell craft is an arti class skill (so 23(+8epic)ranks, plus your intel mod which is probably above 30 (so atleast 20mod) for 92 right there, more then likely you'll have a higher intel,
    One might argue you shouldn't count Spellcraft from spent skill points, as you didn't have to spend any skill points in the old system. But even if you take 23 Spellcraft out of the equation, you still have :

    -At least 41 Universal from AT
    -Your INT bonus from free Spellcraft (plus you can add a +11 Spellcraft diamond which stacks with Spellpower from gear, but I'll ignore that too),
    -8 free Epic Spellcraft levels
    -40 Universal from a fully charged Runearm, which if you're firing your acid-based runearm will always apply to your acid runearm damage - and since there's no penalty for charging your runearm now, there's no reason to not always have auto-charge toggled on.
    -5 Spellcraft from the new AT capstone, which you're already taking

    So if you had, what was it, 100 spellpower from maxing an elemental line with the old enhancements, you only need an INT score of 22 (+6 bonus) to hit that now, assuming you spend zero in Spellcraft and don't spend more than 41 in AT.

    As far as crit...yes, you cant invest directly in Acid or other "non-arti" elements crits now, but since Lore items (including Universal) now give roughly double the old crit, and you get 5% base universal crit, I don't think you could have less crit than before if you tried.

  16. #36
    Community Member Maldorin's Avatar
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    Default For -my- previous build

    The issue for me is it was relatively cheap before the EP to be a repeater based DPS arty trapper and I mostly ignored the (few) damage spells except for BB and the force line to boost it (highest level spell being 6 is a killer for DCs IMO and can't waste SP on mobs saving when you have to self heal). What- was it 9 AP bought 90 force power and then also you could increase the crit chance and damage (not to mention splash a few points into acid for the acid runearms). Currently to rebuild what I had, I would not be spending many points outside of battle engineer and also in order to get fusillade there is a lot of points required to be spent to get to that. So, it appears there is a funneling of builds into one or the other.

    I am definitely not going to spend points in arcano on things I don't want in order to increase spell power just to kite through a more effective BB. Many of the replies are citing how to boost it back from the arcano tree. Problem is that it is even required now. Granted, if you max your SP skill, with very high int and slot a diamond and take the lvl 20 capstone and run with a +7 weapon, you are maybe close to what was available before in the enhancements by simply spending 9 points,

    If they provided a high level runearm(s) or repeater with a red slot for impulse this would make me much happier. Much. I guess there is Needle upgrade tier four, guess I better hit CITW.

    Additionally

    One of the previous features of Artificer before was boosting UMD through enhancements. Those four points made a difference. Why are they no longer there? Did they boost the UMD somewhere else that I am missing? And where is Artificer skill boost? Am I just not seeing it? Before, you could get up to +5 for all those useful rogue-ish skills.

    Also, as a warforged there are skill points needed now to be spent in both repair (along with spellpower) where before those weren't needed.

    With a high INT is seems like points to spare but not so much when you take all the necessary conc/search/spot/dd/ol/tumble/sp/repair/UMD. It's enough but forget about convenience skills like jump or balance.

    So, it wasn't completely broken but (IMO) nerfed a bit unnecessarily. And when I can adreneline/many shot/slaying arrow for thousands of HP in damage as a Ranger I wonder why they nerfed my poor little Arty.

    So for me, kicked in the gears is accurate.

  17. #37
    Community Member BlackSteel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Violith View Post
    hmm, you may have lost the spell lines, but if your going for the old capstone your going to be spending atleast 41 pts in arcanotech (thus getting 41 Universal spell power), plus spell craft is an arti class skill (so 23(+8epic)ranks, plus your intel mod which is probably above 30 (so atleast 20mod) for 92 right there, more then likely you'll have a higher intel,

    (+11 intel gloves, +3 insightful, +1 exceptional, 4-5 for trees, makes about 19-20 just from trees/items. then you got your base, which should be above 10) so obviously it shouldnt be too hard to get the same spell power. if your building to get the old capstone, plus you gain the spellpower of all the other lines so you can swap out rune arms more effectively now then you could before.
    spell power over all elements is higher on my arti in the new system w/o even trying. and yes you can swap rune arms more easily. but my point was that theres no crit enhancements for acid. no crit multi for anyone, thus taking your rune arm crits in EE from some pretty good damage to below mediocre. b/c EE mobs will save against your rune arm, crit hunting was really the only good damage you got out of it, and acid RA's had the highest dice.

    all the new int and DC gear has increased our max DC, but still not enough to really matter. I can build for a rune arm DC in the 50s, or break 60 with twists. but 50s still isn't worth it unless your debuff, and 60s with twist isn't worth giving up things like energy burst or sense weakness.

    same thing with the arti SLA's, they still have a save attached, unless you just want a small DoT from motes with vulnerability. I could see it working better if your main destiny is magister or draconic for the penalty to saves % of spells. shoot SLA's till you debuff the mob then use your rune arm. Personally I'd rather just use pin/whistler while in shiradi and put everything into a semi stunned state then blast them for +50%++ more damage with bolts and the rune arm.

    Arcano tree would be VASTLY improved if instead of +spellpower per point spent you got +1 evocation DC for every core tier.

    currently the only way to get a decent DC is to invest everything into it, at the expense xbow damage, self healing, no save perma CC abilities, saves, HP, resistance/absorbtion. All to gain more damage on the rune arm and blade barrier. Which is also funny b/c while you get an actually damaging rune arm, you lose the mobility from the engineer tree. You also lose the 50% stunned state damage on demand from shiradi b/c now you're in draconic or magister.

    I see the synergy in the arcano tree, I just don't like it. Its great for lvling, or for EN or EH. But I see no appeal for it in EE. The saves are generally too high, and even if you do manage to get full effect, you're now standing to charge up to tier 5, putting yourself in danger, losing mobility, while also missing out on a long list of other options.
    Shadowsteel [TR train wreck]

  18. #38
    Community Member Maldorin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackSteel View Post
    Arcano tree would be VASTLY improved if instead of +spellpower per point spent you got +1 evocation DC for every core tier.
    This is a good idea. Also would like to see at least one option in arcono tree to boost DCs for evocation.

  19. #39
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    I'm pretty happy with the new artificer stuff. Blast Rod and Lightning Sphere as SLAs make up (to me) anything I lost before.

  20. #40
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    I much prefer my pure arti now than as it was before update.

    It is a multilived evo caster with needle, evo Dcs are up a huge amount compared to before update and are definitely far more useful now in EE content than previously.

    One of the best things is that Tact Det is now really quite useful in EE content, but of course the key is to target the right kind of mobs with it, Giants and Giant Skeles in EE tor don't save very often anymore. It still isn't great against ranged type mobs or the occasional rogue mob but that's where other tactics come into play.

    The SLAs are a cheap way of spamming some aoe damage both before and after your Tact DET and they are so so cheap, its easy enough now to get a respectable electric damage that its not something that you have to spec too hard for.

    Although Crit damage is down a bit, crit chance is way way up so this more than makes up for it imo.

    Just my thoughts, Arti's aren't for everyone, but I think mine is superior post pass in almost everyway (and this would appear to go for splashed type builds too) and I haven't found that it has lost any potency/versatility or fun factor.
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