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  1. #41
    Community Member Raithe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzB View Post
    And some sp, which is what the op was specifically talking about. Probably not quite 20% as most folks have a 200sp item by that point, even on a first life. But it still makes it almost 18%.
    The difference between level 18 and level 20, according to the wiki, is 195 spell points, and a wizard has 1205 total from it's class. Even if you have 10 INT and no gear, it's not 20% of your spell pool. Some wizards currently have ~3600 spell points at cap, others are barely topping 2000. I think I may need to introduce you to DDO and it's system of massive power creep.

    If you are talking level 4, then having 2 levels of rogue at that point will make you a level 2 wizard. You would still only have first level spells. Even in that scenario, however, I wouldn't call such a character 20% less effective as a wizard. You'll still be able to wield wands and scrolls as if you were a 4th level wizard, and at low levels that is significant, especially when you have evasion and shield as defences.

    I assure you that I am only condescending to those who are being condescending without cause, just ego. So hi pot, I'm kettle...
    Last edited by Raithe; 08-25-2013 at 08:57 AM.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Istaria1 View Post
    Hi all,

    Been running through options for my first TR. I am level 18.5 at the moment, and am hoping that this weekend is the time to do my first TR into a class I actually LIKE. I'm playing a Wiz at the moment, and am hating this class. Why? Well, it's all to do with the blue bar.

    First off, the pros of a Wiz are obvious:
    - Great selection of spells
    - Can change at any shrine or inn
    - Great synergy with Rogue for trapping (my char is a 16/2 wiz/rog)

    The cons:
    - That damn blue bar. I can't maintain SP worth a damn, and the reason is that I don't have the experience to know how far to push what, when. Blow my SP now with a big nuke effort? Save em like Scrooge in case there's no shrine? Generally, I don't know. If you're a 10th lifer running through the same quest for the 532nd time, this might not be an issue.

    Seems to me that a Wiz, Cleric, and maybe Bard have the same issue. Favoured Soul and Sorc probably less so. Arti? I dunno, never ran into any issues on mine, but maybe. No idea about Paladins.

    Point is that the blue bar is seriously newb-unfriendly. Or at least it always has been to me.

    Opinions?

    Aes.
    Running a caster successfully and not blowing all your SP is easy if you keep some things in mind.

    1.) not everything in a dungeon needs to die. Archers, for instance, rarely, if ever, follow you. No reason to kill them unless you HAVE to.

    2.) You never use a spell to kill one enemy unless he's a boss. You gather as many as you can up, and then use one or two aoe spells to kill the group. Any stragglers, leave them. They will either stop following you or can follow you until you gather up the next big mob.

    3.) Use your freely meta'd SLAs. A wizard can now take SLAs from both trees. This will save you a lot of SP.

    4.) There are still some quests that will be difficult. I can't solo Running With The Devils on Elite without drinking a pot. The shrine is just too far, and I almost always run out of xp in the hallway before it.

  3. #43
    Hero DanteEnFuego's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jalont View Post
    Running a caster successfully and not blowing all your SP is easy if you keep some things in mind.

    1.) not everything in a dungeon needs to die.
    This, for all classes, is one of my favorite pieces of advice...
    "The lion cannot protect himself from traps, and the fox cannot defend himself from wolves. One must therefore be a fox to recognize traps, and a lion to frighten wolves." Niccolò Machiavelli
    Thelanis: Arbix Completionist (23rd Life), ArbySoul, ArbyBarb, ArbyPriest, Arbificer etc.

  4. #44
    Community Member azrael4h's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzB View Post
    One thing that might help is to drop the 2 rogue levels. I know it's all the rage to be a wiz/rogue, but it does come at a price. First off, your spells may not land as much, especially with a first lifer, because your DCs are already down how ever many levels of another class you take. This makes you cast another spell, wasting sp. Secondly, you lose the spell points you would gain from two more levels. I ran with a guildy a couple lives ago, me on my wiz and he on his wiz rogue. He got frustrated quickly because he got the good spells 2 levels later, the wraith form 2 levels later, no lich form at all since we were TR'ing, and his FoDs were totally unreliable, he had fewer sp, etc. Yep, he could get the traps, but generally speaking we had a rogue in the party, and in most cases the traps could be bypassed anyway. I'm not saying don't be a trapper, I'm just saying to be aware that you're 20% less effective as a wiz if you decide to do traps too.
    First off, you don't lose any DCs at all when taking two Rogue levels. You lose 2 spell pen. So if your "guildy"'s FoD was unreliable due to saves, there was something else at work other than a splash. More than likely, you forgot to take Necro focus feats and gear. While 2 Spell pen can hurt a lot, it's also situational; not every critter has spell resistance to break. Drow, yes. Humans, nope.

    Second off, You're only losing maybe 200sp. My current test Wizard has 1800 at level 18, and she's undergeared. She could have over 2k. My real one will have much more due to gear. With the SLAs, and knowing the right spells to use, I rarely need more. Usually only when running stuff I'm unfamiliar with, such as the new quests that just came out, and running on elite, which isn't what new players should do since they lack experience.

    Third off, a splash only loses Lich if you immediately TR at 20. There is 8 full levels to go, even if it's only levels in Commoner. Some people play the whole game, not part of it.

    Forth, with evasion and Insightful Reflexes, that Wiz/Rogue will survive in caster-heavy environments quite easily, ignoring many if not most of the AoE spells tossed at them. Pure Wiz, even with great reflex saves, will still be taking half damage, which on higher difficulties can still bring them down quickly. Especially given the habit of DDO to eat spells, I never count on my burst getting through.

    Fifth, with UMD alone, you can back up heal with scrolls, raise the dead Cleric, Harm yourself, and use old Race/alignment Restricted gear you have laying around much more easily. This versatility offsets the relatively minor loss in offense.

    TL/DR: If you are 20% less effective as a Wizard due to a loss of 1 feat and 2 spell pen, the issue isn't with the 2 level splash.

    In the OP's case, the Rogue splash has nothing to do with his difficulties. It's, plain and simple, player skill and experience. This will change over time, if he sticks with leveling casters. Wizards are not a first-timer-friendly class. Others have already said what will help, but the biggest help will to be to keep playing, keep trying to learn, and don't give up.
    It was the night before Hogswatch....

    Optimus Prime/Grimlock 2016 Because in diplomacy, sending in the Dinobots is the only answer.

  5. #45
    Community Member Toro12's Avatar
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    Just getting my rogue splashed wizard to 20 I can offer a bit of advice. Not saying I'm an expert at SP management but I've learned a couple things along the way.

    First and foremost the biggest problem I had in adapting was learning to trust your AoE spells. When you drop that icestorm/firewall/acidrain let it do its work. I used to think ohh I have all these cheap force SLAs that I'm fully speced out for let me keep spamming my chain missile/magic missile while I kite.
    DONt.
    That is wasting SP. let your AoE work. Sure they are cheap casts but your using SP you don't have to trust your AoE. Sure it takes more time to kill the room/pack you gathered but less than trying to kill an end boss on echos with magic missile SLAs.

    Second Force SLAs are cheap but weak. At lower levels they will 1 or 2 shot mobs with 10SP chain SLA and 2SP MM SLA. At higher levels 5 and 6 MMs and 3-4CMs is more SP than 1 maximized DBF or a non meta meteor swarm.

    3rd
    I got in the habit of always dropping a max,emp firewall when ever I would cast it. Sure all the mobs die but I'd watch that FW burn for a long while after everything was dead.

    See that burn? That's wasted spell points as sure as leaving the light on in the kitchen after your done getting your late night snack is running up your electric bill.

    Try a non MAXed or EMPed (or both) firewall. Kite longer anything still left that you can finish with a cheap SLA. If you find you can't finish with a cheap SLA consider upping one of the metas.
    -------

    Out of SP just as you see the shrine? Push on a little more and play the cautious pull one mob and pewees down with SLAs on echos. Then go back to the shrine as your buffs burn off. Recasting buffs that have 10 min left are wasted SP.

  6. #46

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    While leveling, I could probably just non-meta'd frost lance + scorching ray my way through an entire dungeon on echoes alone with careful pulling. They both two- or three-shot most mobs well into the teens.

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