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Thread: Melee Sorcerer

  1. #1
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    Default Melee Sorcerer

    I am looking for help with making a melee sorcerer build.

    I am just starting out so any info towards helping perfect this play style would be appreciated.

    So far I have gone Maul, and light mithral chain shirt for armor(5% failure).

    I need help with armor progression and how to farm mithral chain shirts. I'm not sure really where to start after this armor falls behind in the next 5 or so levels. I have a pretty good idea where I want to go to get mauls. I am also not sure where I should look for ways to get physical damage reduction past augments.

    I will definitely be utilizing concealment with the 50% displacement spell and on and off with various fogs. If anyone could supply some good benchmarks for Dps survival stats that would be great. it's looking like I'll have to rely on AC, concealment and hp for the bulk of my defense as I can't budget a solid dex for dodge.

    I am going for 41 earth/39 fire at the moment possibly 9 points from fire into human for the stats and boosts but I am unsure. I am a human 28 point build sorc looking to go pure for elemental earth form.
    my base stats are:
    16 str
    10 dex
    10 con
    12 int
    8 wis
    16 cha

    My feats at the moment are:
    force of character ( cha for will saves)
    power attack
    meta magic heighten ( to double buff duration)

    I'm looking at 5 more so I am considering:
    light armor proficiency
    mental toughness
    greater mental toughness
    great spell focus conjuration
    greater spell focus evocation

    other feats I'm looking at:
    bleeding feat
    improved sunder
    greater spell penetration
    toughness

    I'll make up a spell list and plug it in here later if I can still post. it should mostly center around 3 big single nukes for fire, 3 big dots from acid, 3 aoe fogs from acid/mist, buffs especially tensers transformation, and 3 fire aoes.

  2. #2
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    level 1
    night shield
    Shield
    master's touch
    hypnotism

    level 2

    Glitterdust
    fog cloud*
    bear's endurance
    cat's grace

    level 3

    haste
    dispalcement
    heroism
    rage

    level 4
    burning blood
    stone skin
    wall of fire*
    solid fog

    level 5
    cloud kill
    mind fog*
    waves of fatigue*
    protection from elements

    level 6
    acid fog
    tenser's transformation
    greater heroism

    level 7
    delayed blast fireball
    power word blind*
    waves of exhaustion*

    level 8
    black dragon bolt
    incendiary cloud
    power word stun*

    level 9
    Meteor swarm
    energy drain*
    wail of the banshee*


    spells marked with * are either going to be replaced by higher level spells or I don't care about them. any suggestions welcome. Keep in mind I get 3 free fire spells and 3 free acid spells from the savant trees.

  3. #3
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    You've built a pnp melee sorc from the looks of it.

    Here's an old melee sorc build thread
    https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/181901

    and here is a list of problems with the build you presented
    heighten doesn't extend buff duration, extend does
    you have spells with dc's listed and your dc's will fail every time
    you have tactical feats listed and you won't have the dc's for it
    mithril armor doesn't exist at higher levels anymore since u14's armor change
    you have no way to self heal
    Mauls are not as good as many other weapon choices

  4. #4
    The Hatchery stoerm's Avatar
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    Getting both good melee DPS and meaningful spell DC and penetration is very difficult, especially for a first life character without all the gear. The linked Tukaw build is perhaps the best known arcane melee build out there, and it relies a lot on:
    - rare/expensive/raid gear
    - multiclassing synergies
    - divine power clickies, lots of them
    - racial benefits (self repair and THF bonuses)

    That's all to say it's a challenge, but don't hesitate to give it a shot. Just beware that you might find it hard to find pugs willing to take an exotic build on board.

    What you really have to do is read a lot of build threads here on the forums, and read ddowiki.com for game mechanics. You have lots of outdated and plain wrong information in your post, eg. metamagics, mithral (deprecated in favour of new armor types), dodge etc.

    2nd edit/tip: you might want to take a look at the new Purple Dragon Knight iconic class, as it gets to use charisma for melee damage.

    3rd edit: artificers make excellent battle arcanes

    4th: lots of discussion, tips and links to builds here
    https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...t-still-viable
    Last edited by stoerm; 08-24-2013 at 08:59 AM.
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  5. #5
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    I had a lot of fun with a WF Earth Savant melee sorc - it was very newbie-friendly, even before the EP, and stands to be even better now.

    The idea is simple....18 or 19 levels of Sorc, with 1 or 2 in a Martial class for proficiencies and some active attacks/melee bonuses. Run with Greataxes, good ones are easy to get, but you can use any good 2-hander you might find. Earth Savant gives you lots of no-save DOTs you can use to augment your melee DPS as needed...no-save means you only need enough CHA to cast them, meaning you can max STR and pump CON. Warforged means you can self-heal very well.

    You'll want to take Power Attack, Cleave, Great Cleave, Maximize, Imp Crit: Slashing, Empower (in that order), and then one more feat of your choice, probably Quicken.

    Basically just run around, spamming your Cleave, Great Cleave, and class enhancement attacks. You can use your Melf's SLA with free metamagics for cheap single-target DPS, and your Acid Blast SLA with free metas for more AOE, plus all your actual spells like Black Dragon Bolt, Acid Rain, etc. You'll have buffs like Haste and Displacement too.

    =====

    Also....I haven't actually played or tried this, but on paper it should work - 17 sorc/3 rogue, DEX instead of STR, using a quarterstaff with some Thief Acrobat enhancements (plus Cleave/GC) as your main source of melee damage. You'll get Evasion, which is nice, and really good Trip DCs (with WF tactical enhancements), and you'll get a really fast attack speed and doublestrike - but then you're limited to using quarterstaves, and your DPS will lag behind axes...still, if you group a lot, it might be better since it gives you better aggro management tools.
    Last edited by droid327; 08-25-2013 at 09:00 PM.

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    Mauls are not as good as many other weapon choices
    When I first read "maul" in the OP I figured they planned on using a Moonhowl Axe, which is a pretty decent choice for a melee sorc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    When I first read "maul" in the OP I figured they planned on using a Moonhowl Axe, which is a pretty decent choice for a melee sorc.
    Actually that's a Greatclub, though it does have a Maul's 1d10 20/x3 profile...

  8. #8
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    I've gone over a lot of revisions since my last post. My forum bug has finally been fixed so it's looks like I can post again.

    feats are going to be this now:

    Force of Character
    Meta Magic Maximize
    Meta Magic Empower
    Power Attack
    Cleave
    Great Cleave
    Mental toughness
    Improved mental toughness


    I have been thinking of taking out greater cleave and replacing it with improved sunder but am not sure I can achieve -12 AC and -8% fortitude just from acid fog + earth savant crumbling. Then if i have improved destruction I think I can get up to like -17 AC -13% fortitude. Put in improved sunder and now we are going in to the -20+ zone. With tenser's I will have full bab and high bonus to hit with all my strength focus. I'm not sure if there is a point for more AC shred then I have available.


    My main weapon is going to be a Keen Falchion. I'm not sure of the suffix yet maybe blood letter on random or Puncture on craft. The Falchion is basically a 2 handed kukri with no 20% chance to not get an off hand swing and no - to hit bonus. I really wanted to stay maul but there are a lot of good dps crit suffixes and for -2 damage I can crit 3x more then a maul. It seems like no contest.

    I've gone down to robes since they seem the easiest to get some of my elemental damage etc on. It also freed up a feat point. If by some miracle I find a really good leather, light chain,studded armor, or other light armor piece I can always twilight enchant it for -10 arcane failure.

    It looks like my gear is going to deal with a lot of random loot gen and crafting. Named gear doesn't look that great from what I've seen. Most don't have the core stat boosts I want or the enhancements are all wrong.

    My base AC should be 10+ 4 sheild + 8 Natural enhancements + 2 earth savant + 6 tenser's transformation + 8 deflection enhancement = 38 AC + whatever armor (lets say robes for now) 8 = 46 AC

    Hopefully 46 AC at 20 translates to around 30% miss chance
    concealment : 50% displacement
    dodge possibly: 5% gear enhancement
    DR: 10/adamantine stone skin
    fortitude :100% earth elemental form
    immunity: Fear greater heroism,Paralysis and Petrification Earth and Fire Savant
    Physical reduction: 25 earth elemental+ 16 blue aug = 41 = 22% damage reduction
    Health: not sure but whatever sorcerer base + 80 health from Greater heroism, False life spell, and greater false life enhancement if they all stack.

    even more reductions available through Dragon Incarnation at a later date.


    I am completely ignoring itemizing for spell pen or DC saves simply because my spells don't need them. They are either pure damage or buffs and most wont even have reflex saves. 1/3 of my spells should crit at 31% spell crit at 20 with proper acid/fire lore depending so even on a reflex they will still double the damage to normal. I am hoping with the ability to itemize full Spell power and crit and Use empower/maximize full time (most dps with be persistent so no spell spam)I can keep up with a caster that focuses on DCs.

    While my single target will be full damage regardless in the form of dots I am still looking for ways to actively reduce reflex saves. I was going to use thick fog for - 5 reflex but I think my fire spells burn it away. The - 1 reflex saves weapon enhancements don't look to good

    I could also use ways to actively decrease fortitude save chance for my final spells Earth grab and Heat death which use constitution modfiers.

    Spell power Acid: 75 empower + 150 maximize + 66 corrosion + 80 earth savane t+ elemental form + 15 fire savant enhancer = 386 at 20
    Spell power Fire : 75 empower + 150 maximize + 66 combustion + 50 fire savant + 15 earth enhancer = 356 at 20

    spell crit Acid : 8% earth savant + 2% mental toughness feats + 5% magical training + 2% earth elemental + 14% Acid lore = 31%
    Spell crit fire: 8% fire savant, 2% mental toughness feats, 5% magical training = 15%

    The new spell break down should be something like this:

    level 1
    night shield*
    Shield
    master's touch*
    grease

    night shield and masters touch become useless after resist gear and tenser's transformation

    level 2

    Melf's acid arrow
    blur*
    scorch*
    scorching rays
    False life

    Blur will be replaced and scorch will become obsolete with better fire aoes.

    level 3

    haste
    dispalcement
    heroism*
    Acid blast
    Fireball

    Greater heroism replaces regular heroism

    level 4
    burning blood
    stone skin
    wall of fire*
    Acid Rain

    Wall of fire may be beaten by Incendiary cloud in damage.

    level 5
    Summon creature*
    mind fog*
    waves of fatigue*
    protection from elements

    Summon and mind fog just filler. Waves of fatigue replaces by waves of exhaustion. Just a really bad spot for me to get spells.

    level 6
    acid fog
    tenser's transformation
    greater heroism

    level 7
    delayed blast fireball
    power word blind*
    waves of exhaustion

    power word blind filler may have use.

    level 8
    black dragon bolt
    incendiary cloud*
    power word stun*

    Power word stun filler. incendiary cloud may beat wall of fire if not will use wall of fire as both don't stack.



    I am capping Cha at 18 so no level 9 spells. I probably won't be using SLA's as I want some human boosts I am still working out how to maximize my enhancement tree in a 41 earth 39 fire split.
    Last edited by Exiledtyrant; 08-27-2013 at 05:49 PM.

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Exiledtyrant View Post
    I am capping Cha at 18 so no level 9 spells. I probably won't be using SLA's as I want some human boosts I am still working out how to maximize my enhancement tree in a 41 earth 39 fire split.
    Your base cha is 16. Any +3 item will get you to 19 to let you slot and cast level 9 spells. Heck, just casting Eagle's Splendor would suffice.

    Since you're a melee arcane I'd consider dropping the two mental toughness feats for melee feats. Improved Critical and Improved Sunder might be a nice combo. An alternative to improved sunder is Sap, which is a no-save cc melee attack.

    Keen falchions are nice, but falchions with improved critial and a dps prefix are nicer.

    I would advise against dumping CON. This is a recipe for disaster for anyone, particularly melee. (I would also recommend warforged for this type of build to give yourself some viable self-healing options.) Maybe:

    16 str
    8 dex
    14 con
    10 int
    8 wis
    16 cha

  10. #10
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    would my sp pool really be sufficient with no mental toughness feats? I wouldn't really be spamming spells but Ido still have to take into account +25 to my spell cost and + 10% sp cost from elemental form. I should be losing around 100 or so sp reserved just for elemental form +buffs. there also comes the loss of 2% crit chance to my 15% base. I don't think lores stack unlike how corrosion and combustion do so I would be weakening my fire crit.


    is the massive AC shred worth it for sunder? I have the capability to get it -20+ or I could just stay at my -12 from spells.

    I see what you mean for stats. I will probally have to wait till I can do true reincarnation before I can redo them though. Dex and wis should be total dumps. I will be getting 2 const and 2 str from my savant trees. I also have the option of getting 1 more const and 1 more str from my human tree. I may consider leaving cha at 15 since I don't really want any of the level 9 spells.

    does false life the spell stack with greater heroism, greater false life enhancement and vitality?

    I'm not really sure on the melee feats besides cleave and great cleave. trip has monsters that are immune, bleed has immunites and I'm not sure how much the added damage helps, sap may be ok but i don't know if I would feat it.

    Weapon focus seems like a waste as I'll have a lot of + hit already, and seeker looks like it could cover improved critical hit.

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Exiledtyrant View Post
    would my sp pool really be sufficient with no mental toughness feats? I wouldn't really be spamming spells but Ido still have to take into account +25 to my spell cost and + 10% sp cost from elemental form. I should be losing around 100 or so sp reserved just for elemental form +buffs. there also comes the loss of 2% crit chance to my 15% base. I don't think lores stack unlike how corrosion and combustion do so I would be weakening my fire crit.
    You can bring maximize down to 12 SP if you want. As a pure sorc you get no melee enhancements to spend AP on anyway.

    Regarding improved sunder, the primary value is reducing enemy fortification.

    You should have 2 free LRs, one that changes no levels and one that changes all levels.

    False life the spell gives you temporary hit points, not actual hit points. Which makes it largely worthless. (It could be nice for going through traps, I suppose.)

    Weapon focus seems like a waste as I'll have a lot of + hit already, and seeker looks like it could cover improved critical hit.
    Weapon focus is indeed worthless. You say "seeker" here but I think you mean improved critical. Improved critical is one of the better dps feats there is. It lets you have a damage prefix instead of keen on your weapon. That's pure dps.

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    at what point do I get the 2 lesser reincarnations?

    so false life the spell and greater heroism would only give me about 60 points of temp hp? maybe that would still be useful with all my miss chance.

    how do you get maximize down to 12 sp? I have it down to 16 from my savant tree and I have empower down to 9 with my savant enhancement aswell. Since I use both for 225 spell power that 25 all together. What other mods can I grab?

    would it be worth it to grab heat death and earth grab in my build?
    Last edited by Exiledtyrant; 08-27-2013 at 08:31 PM.

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Exiledtyrant View Post
    how do you get maximize down to 12 sp? I have it down to 16
    Equipping an efficient maximize II item brings it down another 4 to 12. The easiest way to get one is to have somebody craft it for you and you apply it to a craftable trinket. (A single BTA craftable trinket store purchase is a reasonable investment, but only one per account. It's worth it in that you can pass it around to brand new alts.)

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    what is BTA? does that require turbine points? I haven't been able to find any craftable trinkets in the store as they are all considered named when I try to deconstruct. I need to get a spell lore trinket made as my crafting is almost high enough to do it.

    I am still considering dropping a mental toughness feat, My SP seems like it will get rather large regardless but my build actually has a lot of buffs to consider. Tensers, displacement and haste are all 3 min buffs by 20 but they also take like 20 sp an activation. I also reduce my sp by about 100 for my heroism, false life, shield and secret door buff.

    things have gone a lot better after I found Kruz for my lesser reincarnation. My spells are in the proper slots now and I have points in the stats that matter now.

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Exiledtyrant View Post
    what is BTA? does that require turbine points?
    BTA means bound to account, which allows transfering it to your other alts via the shared bank. All craftable trinkets found in-game (rare chest drops, shards of power, risia mote turn-in) are BTC (bound to character) which means they can never be passed to anyone. The craftable trinket in the store, which costs 125 TP, stands alone in that it's BTA.

    The store one is the only way you can use a craftable trinket on a new alt you roll up right out of the gate. Except during risia; brand new characters can do risia turn-ins to get a craftable trinket.

    Purchasing a single craftable trinket from the store for your entire account is worthwhile. But only one.

  16. #16
    The Hatchery stoerm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Exiledtyrant View Post
    what is BTA? does that require turbine points? I haven't been able to find any craftable trinkets in the store as they are all considered named when I try to deconstruct. I need to get a spell lore trinket made as my crafting is almost high enough to do it.
    BTA means bound to account. Some quests drop bound to account random lootgen items that are useful for Cannith crafting. The Shard Syndicate chain is one place to get them, Chronoscope end rewards is another. Unfortunately trinkets are always BTC. To my best knowledge the only way to craft a BTA trinket is to buy one from the store. I don't have the game open but it looks like this and is listed in DDOwiki as "Customizable Trinket" for 150 TP.

    Edit: Oops, beaten by EllisDee.
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    I can not decided between twin coronations or twin death nips. I've made a bunch of other outlines and made my builds a bit tighter. I've put the two handed weapon fighting on the back burner for now and have been doing 16/4 splash melee sorc builds

    for my dual wield it's gonna be 16 sorc/3 ranger/1 barb and two handed fighting going to be 16/3 barb/1 fighter most likely fighter or warchanter at least.

    I'll write down the stat break down of everything later but if someone could just help me decide between

    coronation x2 :http://ddowiki.com/page/Coronation
    death nip x2: http://ddowiki.com/page/Deathnip

    note I'll be able to make them 20% crit chance and 90% off hand proc chance. I can't expand their multipliers past x3 and x4 respectively however.

  18. #18
    Community Member Daine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    BTA means bound to account, which allows transfering it to your other alts via the shared bank. All craftable trinkets found in-game (rare chest drops, shards of power, risia mote turn-in) are BTC (bound to character) which means they can never be passed to anyone. The craftable trinket in the store, which costs 125 TP, stands alone in that it's BTA.

    The store one is the only way you can use a craftable trinket on a new alt you roll up right out of the gate. Except during risia; brand new characters can do risia turn-ins to get a craftable trinket.

    Purchasing a single craftable trinket from the store for your entire account is worthwhile. But only one.
    Any shard of power from the shroud raid can be disjuncted to become a craftable blank trinket.

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    I am sorry to burst your bubble but you are just going to get murdered. I have no clue why these posters are leading you to believe that a "melee sorc" will be successful. Maybe if you only plan on running epic normal I guess it may work a bit but, as a sorc for a main for about three years, you will be very squishie and hear nothing but dings while you quest.

    Sorcs are made to bob and weave and sting like a bee. Not stand like a tree and get chopped down.

    But I guess to each their own, only trying to save you the headache and wasted time for trying to make this build work. Good luck.

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    that does nothing to help me with weapon comparisons. 2x death nip vs 2 x coronation?

    I'm thinking death nip as seeker 10 is 40 extra damage on crit and it has 2 more top end for heart seeker.

    i kind of want to use maces though it may not be big loss to go coronation x2. Braising star would be the natural progression or rebellion for death nip it looks like.

    I'll admit the new outlines I've made have loss prr instead of 22-25% damage reduction I'll prob be riding 12-15%. Health may or may not be an issue I'll have to see what it looks like at 20. my first build is almost done now so I'll get a snap shot before I TR them. AC apparently doesn't work in higher content so I axed fitting it in. I'll still be around 60-70 regardless. I could have pushed 80 though at 20 and 100-105ish at 25 while losing some damage. My Dr is still 10.

    Weapons though what are your opinions?

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