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  1. #1
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    Default Pure paly tank need advice

    i decided to make a dorf paly tank which uses dorfaxes, but i have problem with feats and dont want to multiclass at all
    i chose these:

    Two handed fighting x3 glancing blows which gives me extra threat
    Shield mastery defensive one
    Improved shield mastery defensive one
    Toughness to unlock epic one
    Tower Shields to grant better benefits from Shield mastery
    and a Shield Deflection cause this one is really powerful

    and that is 8 but i have only 7

    [Epic]
    Bulwark of Defense
    Epic Toughness
    and
    Blinding Speed [27lvl one]
    or
    Epic Damage Reduction [27lvl one]

    so first question is which is better BS or EDR on paly tank

    and the second one is about this shield deflection is this one really powerful and if it is which one i should exchange to fit 7 feats which i only have got...

  2. #2
    Community Member DeKalbSun's Avatar
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    You may not need to take tower shield. I didn't. I use the tower shields from Gianthold (both heroic and epic) that gives you the feat for free. (can't
    think of the shield's names and I'm at work and can't look it up) Just a thought
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  3. #3
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    Personally, especially on a dwarf I wouldn't worry about epic toughness. I'm even considering dropping regular toughness on my human Paladin now.

    Shield deflection looks interesting but I really don't block very often and you would have to block before the effect hit you so it also has to be something with a tell of some sort. If it also had a passive bonus whenever a shield was equipped I'd be more interested.

    I will second not worrying to much about tower shield proficiency. You can get the ones form the raids that auto-grant the feat. And you can also UMD master's touch scrolls to grant you the proficiency.

    For a dwarf I'd probably just stick with dwarven axes since they are free. But I really do love my Nightmare from CiTW I actually didn't work bastard sword into my build until I had one of those.

    EDIT: I don't see power attack on your list, get that. Also check your PRR when you get high enough for epic damage reduction. PRR has reduced value they high it is so +10 may not actually make much of a difference. (On my build it would only reduce incoming damage by about another 1.5%)
    Last edited by Krelar; 08-23-2013 at 01:32 PM.

  4. #4
    Community Member PsychoBlonde's Avatar
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    Those glancing blows will be the death of you.

    A tank in DDO is a VERY specialized character useful ONLY in a VERY few raids to control ONE opponent at a time--the raid boss. The people who control threat on multiple opponents are called "kiters" and they always have some kind of ranged or area damage capacity--you don't kite on a melee toon. So there's *absolutely* no reason to take two-handed-fighting except to increase your DPS, in which case you're better off ditching the shield altogether and using a greataxe.

    Learn from my experience. I've gotten to the point nowadays that when I see a paladin with more than 1000 hp using a shield all I think is "no DPS"--and I always turn out to be right. This is not World of Warcraft where you need a big wad of HP to soak up damage--if you're getting hit that much in endgame content no healer in the game will be able to keep up. A truly superior tank has *good* DPS, enormous threat generation so that the squishier people can use their GREAT DPS without too much risk, solid HP but not to a wasteful degree, heavy damage mitigation, excellent saving throws (and, for preference, evasion), and superior healing amp to make them easy to heal. Ideally, they will also be self-sufficient for partying so nobody has to heal them AT ALL.

    The good DPS is important, though--I've tanked raids on characters with mediocre EVERYTHING on that list EXCEPT DPS and done fine. But if you can't figure out how to build heavy survivability AND dps on the same toon, don't play a tank. The character will be boring to play and will always be huffing and puffing to keep up with the people who are only middling armored but have damage out the wazoo.
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  5. #5
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    The first piece of advice about pure dwarven pally tanks is...don't make a pure dwarven pally tank.

    Dwarves are not a good fit for pallies because of their -2 CHA (tho that's a little less important now) and their racial weapons (axes, picks, hammers) have small crit ranges, which is as important (if not more so) to pallies as crit multipliers. Pure pally tank is tough because of the feat shortage, as you've discovered; also the SD capstone kinda sucks a lot, IMHO. A human pal 18 / ftr 2 (or possibly something more heavily MCed) is a better choice for a first-timer: human for the extra feat & heal amp; ftr for the extra feats and tower shield prof.

    But if you're committed to this idea, then I'd say you should put more feats int DPS; Power Atk and Imp Crit Slash, at the very least. Cleave & GC are great fun and very useful vs. mobs. So something like Power Atk (lvl 1), Cleave (3), GC (6), IC:Slash (9), Shield Mastery (12), ISM (15), THF (18), ITHF (21), GTHF (24), Overwhelming Crit (27). [If you do human pal 18 / ftr 2, the 3 extra feats go towards b.sword and maybe Toughness + epic Dmg Reduction.]

  6. #6
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    Default heh

    ok guys i ll take your advices you helped me in some way, thanks for pretty fast and accurate response.

  7. #7
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    I haven't redone it for the new Enhancements yet; but you can see my take on a "classic" S&B pally tank here. I would rearrange feats a bit - move Toughness back to, say, lvl 12 so I could fit Cleave & GC sooner - and maybe take a deeper ftr splash. But the basics should still work fine.

  8. #8
    Community Member PNellesen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    A human pal 18 / ftr 2 (or possibly something more heavily MCed) is a better choice for a first-timer: human for the extra feat & heal amp; ftr for the extra feats and tower shield prof.

    But if you're committed to this idea, then I'd say you should put more feats int DPS; Power Atk and Imp Crit Slash, at the very least. Cleave & GC are great fun and very useful vs. mobs. So something like Power Atk (lvl 1), Cleave (3), GC (6), IC:Slash (9), Shield Mastery (12), ISM (15), THF (18), ITHF (21), GTHF (24), Overwhelming Crit (27). [If you do human pal 18 / ftr 2, the 3 extra feats go towards b.sword and maybe Toughness + epic Dmg Reduction.]
    Would you suggest the same thing for a PDK 18Pal/2F (for DPS, not tanking)? I've been toying with something similar to this, but I don't have any experience at all with Pallys. Not real sure what the best starting stats to go with would be, given the whole "CHA mod for attack/damage" thing that PDKs get. I did notice that PDKs get the human enhancement line (yay healing amp!!) so that would be a plus.

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  9. #9
    Community Member lyrecono's Avatar
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    Default tank&tanking

    dear op,

    don't be discouraged, good advice has been given, here are my 2 cents on the matter
    - Dwarfs make decent tanks paly or otherwise, with +5 tomes aviable, ED's stat increases, +11/+3 exep stats, you'll be fine in terms of charisma. dwarfs also give the benefit of getting a bonus wielding all axes, allowing you to switch between greataxe and d-axe&shield

    - Classes, paladin's give noting usefull for tanking beyond lv 12(top tier enhancement that used to come at lv 18) multiclassing for different enhancements or class abilities (evasion/fighter feats etc) is strongly recomended. if you bring a leather/robe and a 2 hander you can switch for raids like the abbot where high saves and evasion are better tools for keeping you save then a platemail and towershield. those 2 will keep you down on the ground longer after a command/trip etc.

    - Tower shields have a strict max dex bonus, here is a comparison between 2 lv 25 shields:
    stormfist:
    Shield Bonus +16, DR 14, ACP -1, SF 15, 2.5[1d10], 20x2, +7 Enhancement Bonus, Sheltering +15, Insightful Constitution +3, Purple Augment Slot, Blue Augment Slot

    Madstone Aegis
    Shield Bonus 21, MDB 2, DR 16/-, SF 50, 2[2d10] 20x3, +8 Enhancement Bonus, Improved Bashing, Shield Bashing - 20%, Shield Proficiency: Tower Shield Blue Augment Slot (fully upgraded)

    you can increase the max dex bonus with enhancements though. and you need the proficiency to wield it.

    - tanking in the past required a big bag of hp with decent saves and the ability to hold agro.
    the Barbarian was very good at that in the past, plenty of HP and good melee dps to hold the agro.
    Times have changed a bit but some things hold true, with the right enhancements and gear you'll have the hp (i had 3800 on lamania, some one reported breaking 4k on live), being a paly, saves should be alright.
    holding agro comes into a tight spot here... your build has no dps at all to hold agro (intimidate works only very short, if at all, you'll need to hit extremely high dc's in high lv content.
    gear wise you need to walk a fine line between dps and tanking (heal amp, hate gear, intim gear, dr breaking weapons and shields, if you lost your agro to the barb/sorc etc you were in turn reduced to a mediocre melee dps.

    - nowadays the barb is in trouble, lacking prr, defencive feats self healing (healer down?), proper gear, saves etc makes EE content very hard. opening a door with 2-3 emo assasins wielding chains at lightspeed behind it will turn the tank into mush fast.

    - a tank build can hit saves in the high 60-s without breaking a sweat.
    - a tank build can hit 180 AC without breaking a sweat.
    - a tank build can hit 50% dr from prr without breaking a sweat.
    - well build a tank can do 80 damage with a d-axe on a normal hit without breaking a sweat.
    - a tank build can hit 2100hp with only shipbuffs without breaking a sweat. (the 4k+ hp was in a 30-60 sec boost state)
    - a tank build can run just as fast as most peeps without breaking a sweat due to new enhancement.
    A well played/geared/build tank can keep the baddies away from the rest of the party

    build sugetions:

    Race:
    human/helf
    - pro: heal scrolls/healamp
    - con: race tree rather baren for tanking

    dwarf
    - pro: tanking uberness, con/ac/saves/hp con to damage and beards
    - con: no con to tactical feats nor to hit.

    Purple dragon knight,
    pro: cha to hit/damage, lots of synergy with charisma making stats distribution easier
    con: -
    for the rest of the post i assume dwarf:

    stat reminders:
    str:
    power attack needs str 13, 2hf feats require str 17, overwhelming crit needs str 23, but most likely need a point in here during level ups and a high str tome to get it.
    dex:
    what ever you can spare, max dex bonus of 14 on a plate is not too hard to reach.
    dodge requires dex 13, if you can be bothered with a high dodge bonus
    con:
    as a dwarf you can go all out, 16+, depending on build points.
    wis:
    can be dumped, ioun stones/sr/enhancements/cha to saves/items etc will help will saves, you won't be able to affort skills that use wis anyway
    int:
    13 is needed for combat reflexes (and the LD twist), str will be to low for trip, can be easily reached with tomes. i dont recomend this feat, you'll have enough problems hitting stuff as a dwarf (assuming you pick con to axe damage) power attack is better for the dps anyway
    Cha, trie to get it at 14 (depending on PB points left), invest in upgrading it (items/tomes etc)

    as you can see your feats are dependent on stats, how many points can you spend? this helps us with the feats
    classes:
    - Drop the paly 20 idea asap, gives you little in return while quests do become harder as you go up.
    fighter12/pal6/monk 2 or paly12/fighter6/monk2 might be a better candidate for your plans to build a tank. replacing monk with rog allows for better self healing via umd.

    Feats:
    - blinding speed, are you expecting to solo a lot? haste comes in pots/clickies/arcane casters, gh has a perma item that comes close, are you willing to give up a feat for this?
    epic dr gives 10prr, by the time you can pick it you might already have so much prr that your dr might increase by 1,5 this is hardly worth it
    - power attack/cleave/great cleave help keeping the agro. the 2 handed fighting feats work on them too, even while moving
    - i can only "advice" to pick the shield mastery feats on the fighter version of the tank build due to the many fighter bonus feats.
    - no impr crit? it realy helpes with dps--> keeping agro
    - you'll need feats to make it work (wich you did) but i don't see improved shield bash?

    gear:
    if your rich you can spring for shield tome pieces, some nice shield, min lv 14
    madstone shield is an ok shield but i doubt you'll get it before you cap (like most other raid shields)
    gh has nice 1 handed axes, pick up the fury of the flame its a cheap skellie basher. get a pair of pdk gloves for the heal amp/ intim skill have pots for every occasion.
    Throwing axes are useful and gain the dwarf axe bonus.
    planar girds for boosting skills/saves.
    100 fortrification asap, 100+fort past 18-20 helps a lot, don't depend on AC alone to keep you safe.
    Carry DR breakers. At all time.

    Summary:

    - the top tier tank enhancements require you to have a shield and weapon equipped for it to work, i see why you want to achieve, in order to benefit from this build i suggest using a 2 hander like carnifex or a keen falchion at early levels while you build up the racial tree and the low tier of your defender line.
    Armor class is like a caster dc, if you cant hit the right number it becomes useless
    Prr does scale nicely though up to roughly 50% dr, then the amount of prr needed for more dr becomes too much. its something you'll need to balance out.
    Expect to be tripped a lot, remember that you can block while tripped!
    i can't emphesise this enough: name calling (the intimidate skill) alone doesn't work in ddo like it would in other mmo's. first you need to hit the magic number, second, have enough dps to keep the boss of the rest of the party.
    being a top tier tank requires good gear, a good build and patience. From you and the party!
    A good tank needs to be prepared.
    Read DDO Wiki, read the forums

    have fun with it!!!
    Last edited by lyrecono; 08-24-2013 at 02:18 AM. Reason: edit for typo's writing at 04:00 at night....

  10. #10
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PNellesen View Post
    Would you suggest the same thing for a PDK 18Pal/2F (for DPS, not tanking)?
    I've experimented w/PDK pallies; the main drawback to going CHA-based is giving up Overwhelming Crit - and possibly the THF feats, depending on how low your base STR is. But since pallies are feat-starved to begin with, dropping OC has always been an option. The other drawback is you don't really benefit from Divine Might, since that's now a STR bonus rather than a generic dmg bonus. But if you go STR-based PDK, you're kinda missing out on the one ability which makes them semi-unique; I'd rather go BF pally, since they get Reconstruct SLA now.

    The really interesting question, IMHO, is since you can max out most of your pally abilities w/fewer pally lvls, whether to still go for pal 18; or do something more heavily MCed, like pal 15 / monk 2 / ftr 2 (final lvl up for grabs). Or maybe pal 14 / ftr 6? Decisions, decisions...

  11. #11
    Community Member Therigar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xental View Post
    i decided to make a dorf paly tank
    Do not multi class, multi task.

    There is zero reason to make a tank in DDO. Some players come to the game from tabletop or from other MMO games and think that a tank is a good and useful thing. They are wrong. Or, they have a different meaning when they use the word "tank."

    To me a tank is a massive number of hit points protected by a massive amount of AC and an equally massive amount of PRR and backed by incredibly high saves, healing amplification and, ideally, considerable self healing. Such a character stands in front of a mob and prays that friendly characters can kill mentioned mob before aforementioned tank becomes a soul stone.

    In all of DDO I doubt that there are 5 quests where such a tactic is an essential part of the game. When compared to the total number of quests and raids in the game being a "tank" is an incredible waste of a character build.

    Instead players should focus on being competent group members that can fill a tanking role in the rare situations where it is actually called for. In the case of paladins this means being a capable support character with essential back-up abilities to augment the group's primary characters.

    Because backup characters are not very sexy the role I find most rewarding is in being a major contributor of DPS. STR based dwarves dual wielding dwarven axes generally fill this role reasonably well.

    This approach means placing very little emphasis on CHA, almost ignoring that it is intended to be a paladin's primary stat. Instead, build points are used to start STR, DEX and CON high and the remaining stats are ignored.

    DEX need only be high enough to reach 17 with tomes so that the full TWF line can be obtained. Otherwise the build points go into STR and CON.

    An alternative approach is to ignore the TWF option and to go purely STR and CON. This focuses on THF with great axe or great sword -- the choice of weapon depending on what you have best access to at epic levels.

    Because TWF/THF surrenders shields attention is still given to AC and PRR. But, because the character is a second-line DPS character the risk of pulling aggression is manageable. When necessary the character can switch to a shield to go into the "tank" mode.

  12. #12
    Community Member bsquishwizzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoBlonde View Post
    A tank in DDO is a VERY specialized character useful ONLY in a VERY few raids to control ONE opponent at a time--the raid boss.
    Quote Originally Posted by Therigar View Post
    Do not multi class, multi task.
    There is zero reason to make a tank in DDO. Some players come to the game from tabletop or from other MMO games and think that a tank is a good and useful thing. They are wrong. Or, they have a different meaning when they use the word "tank."

    To me a tank is a massive number of hit points protected by a massive amount of AC and an equally massive amount of PRR and backed by incredibly high saves, healing amplification and, ideally, considerable self healing. Such a character stands in front of a mob and prays that friendly characters can kill mentioned mob before aforementioned tank becomes a soul stone.

    In all of DDO I doubt that there are 5 quests where such a tactic is an essential part of the game. When compared to the total number of quests and raids in the game being a "tank" is an incredible waste of a character build.
    I couldn’t disagree with you guys more. This view is horribly narrow-minded.

    I’ve got a tank and a caster, and they have a beautify synergy. Yeah, there are maybe 5 quests where a tank is REQUIRED, however, a decent tank applies it in many quests where it isn’t requires, and it immediately becomes very beneficial.

    The biggest problems with melee damage-dealers is that, even with above-average gear, they can take quite a bit of damage one-on-one. A tank lessens that quite a bit. Gather up mobs about you, turtle-up, and let everyone else pick them off. I’ve been doing this fairly regularly in PUGs since maybe lvl 8. Redwillows Ruins is a GREAT tank-friendly quest that comes to mind. I aggro mobs, a caster drops a firewall on me, and mobs cook. Simple.

    Which brings me into the second part of my argument: tanks from an arcane perspective. You want to know one the best compliment roles to a caster-based toon? Simple: the tank. Anything that grabs aggro, pulls numerous mobs to it so that I can AoE (or do an instakill like Circle of Death or Wail) and take them out with a single spell is one of THE BEST forms of SP management. One spell, six kills, lots of SP left over to kill more stuff in the quest. I personally LOVE it when I get someone who pulls all of the aggor of the mobs around themselves so I can cast a Cloudkill / Ice Storm combination, or maybe Circle of Death and wipe them out in one fell swoop. The mobs get dead, and I save on SP I would have burnt.

    Or when they grab aggro so I can drop a mass Hold Monster or disco ball. It gives me time to target, time to cast, and I can efficiently grab more mobs with a single spell than if I were to do so with them all running around. The melees and ranged toons can pick them off, I can lay down an AoE, and everyone walks away happy. I don’t have to invest my SP into auras to replace HP of mobs that target me, and everyone else gets to hammer away at the enemy without taking damage.

    I wholeheartedly dismiss that you only grab the aggro of one opponent at a time. I tank trash to keep them away from the casters. With hate / incite gear and enhancements, a single intim can grab about 5 oncoming mobs and keep them focused on me.

    Tanking is like anything else in the game: it is what you make of it.
    Last edited by bsquishwizzy; 08-27-2013 at 09:53 AM.

  13. #13
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsquishwizzy View Post
    Tanking is like anything else in the game: it is what you make of it.
    But in 99% of the quests where a tank can be useful there is a better option.
    Last edited by Teh_Troll; 08-27-2013 at 09:59 AM.

  14. #14
    Community Member Therigar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsquishwizzy View Post
    I couldn’t disagree with you guys more. This view is horribly narrow-minded.

    <snip>

    Redwillows Ruins is a GREAT tank-friendly quest that comes to mind.

    <snip>

    Tanking is like anything else in the game: it is what you make of it.
    Before observing how narrow-minded our observations are you might want to consider how naive yours is. Redwillow is hardly end game content and can be blown thru by any competent group using the standard DDO approach -- bum rush the mobs and destroy them.

    Unfortunately, your last observation is seriously misleading. It should read, Tanking is like anything else in the game: it is what the group makes of it. The vast majority of groups will not take the time to let one player turtle up when that tactic isn't needed for the quest. To the contrary, most groups will observe that such a character is just piking through the quest adding nothing valuable to the group.

    Having a pure tank that turtles up in quests so that others can get the kills is absolutely not necessary in any quest at any level and only the preferred methodology in only a handful of instances.

    The argument that DPS takes more damage is spurious. If the damage put out by the group/character is less than the damage being taken then the party is in over its head. Go run a quest you can handle. Having a tank doesn't make the quest more doable, it only delays the party wipe. And, in the end, the effect is the same -- the group goes and runs a quest that it can complete.

  15. #15
    Community Member icekinslayer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoBlonde View Post
    Those glancing blows will be the death of you.

    A tank in DDO is a VERY specialized character useful ONLY in a VERY few raids to control ONE opponent at a time--the raid boss. The people who control threat on multiple opponents are called "kiters" and they always have some kind of ranged or area damage capacity--you don't kite on a melee toon. So there's *absolutely* no reason to take two-handed-fighting except to increase your DPS, in which case you're better off ditching the shield altogether and using a greataxe.

    Learn from my experience. I've gotten to the point nowadays that when I see a paladin with more than 1000 hp using a shield all I think is "no DPS"--and I always turn out to be right. This is not World of Warcraft where you need a big wad of HP to soak up damage--if you're getting hit that much in endgame content no healer in the game will be able to keep up. A truly superior tank has *good* DPS, enormous threat generation so that the squishier people can use their GREAT DPS without too much risk, solid HP but not to a wasteful degree, heavy damage mitigation, excellent saving throws (and, for preference, evasion), and superior healing amp to make them easy to heal. Ideally, they will also be self-sufficient for partying so nobody has to heal them AT ALL.

    The good DPS is important, though--I've tanked raids on characters with mediocre EVERYTHING on that list EXCEPT DPS and done fine. But if you can't figure out how to build heavy survivability AND dps on the same toon, don't play a tank. The character will be boring to play and will always be huffing and puffing to keep up with the people who are only middling armored but have damage out the wazoo.

    This is all pure Opinion, Not fact. If you can lock up 10 mobs, that means they are beating on you, and not your squishy squishy party members. Keep hitting the intim, keep the mobs locked up, and your party members can show off how much dps they have without having to Kite them. And btw, having mobs locked up in intimidate, means that you can stand still while shield blocking. It is pure nonsense to assume that you'd have to kite them all over if you get agro.

  16. #16
    Community Member Ryiah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsquishwizzy View Post
    Redwillows Ruins is a GREAT tank-friendly quest that comes to mind. I aggro mobs, a caster drops a firewall on me, and mobs cook. Simple.
    Tank-friendly? Perhaps. Tank-required? Not at all. You do not need a tank for any of the content in this game. Not only did I not need a tank in Redwillows Ruins for my caster lives, but I soloed that quest effortlessly. Displace yourself, throw down a Firewall, and jump back and forth in the Firewall. Very basic and very simple to do.

    Out of five years of playing DDO the only times I've seen tanks regularly used were Vision of Destruction and Tower of Despair. Last run of Vision of Destruction for me was a couple days ago. Nobody tanked, nobody died, and the time spent actually hurting the boss was less than the time he spent on his pedestal. At least one-fourth of our party was at level for the raid.
    Last edited by Ryiah; 08-28-2013 at 02:25 PM.
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  17. #17
    Community Member Ralmeth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    The really interesting question, IMHO, is since you can max out most of your pally abilities w/fewer pally lvls, whether to still go for pal 18; or do something more heavily MCed, like pal 15 / monk 2 / ftr 2 (final lvl up for grabs). Or maybe pal 14 / ftr 6? Decisions, decisions...
    This depends on whether the player will take advantage of Glorious Stand. If not, then I think 15 Paladin levels are pretty good. As for me, I don't care what anyone else says, Glorious Stand is an awesome ability that greatly adds to your survivability, if used correctly. It has saved me in tight spots numerous times. I'm still evaluating multiclass options, but I'll definitely be going at least 18 levels of Paladin on my Pally tank, just because of this.
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  18. #18
    Community Member Ralmeth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Therigar View Post
    Before observing how narrow-minded our observations are you might want to consider how naive yours is. Redwillow is hardly end game content and can be blown thru by any competent group using the standard DDO approach -- bum rush the mobs and destroy them.

    Unfortunately, your last observation is seriously misleading. It should read, Tanking is like anything else in the game: it is what the group makes of it. The vast majority of groups will not take the time to let one player turtle up when that tactic isn't needed for the quest. To the contrary, most groups will observe that such a character is just piking through the quest adding nothing valuable to the group.

    Having a pure tank that turtles up in quests so that others can get the kills is absolutely not necessary in any quest at any level and only the preferred methodology in only a handful of instances.

    The argument that DPS takes more damage is spurious. If the damage put out by the group/character is less than the damage being taken then the party is in over its head. Go run a quest you can handle. Having a tank doesn't make the quest more doable, it only delays the party wipe. And, in the end, the effect is the same -- the group goes and runs a quest that it can complete.
    I agree with you here. Redwillow is a fairly easy quest nowadays, with how powerful everyone has become.

    In general, a tank shouldn't be turtling up. That will slow the quest down, doesn't really help that much and you'll lose agro before too long. Any decent tank should have as much DPS as possible. Generally while on my Pally tank, I'm grabbing agro when it makes sense, but more importantly always swinging away trying to kill the bad guys as fast as possible, while throwing heals or curative effects on fellow party members if needed, raising a fellow party member if needed, and saving the day if things go sideways. That's how a Pally tank should be played IMHO
    Aryk Stoutheart, Paladin - Sarlona
    Rindyl Twirliblade, Elven Swashbuckler - Sarlona
    Vyyndar Stoutheart, Vanguard Paladin - Argo

  19. #19
    Community Member icekinslayer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryiah View Post
    Displace yourself, throw down a Firewall, and jump back and forth in the Firewall. Very basic and very simple to do.
    .

    So, obviously, by your calculations, this is the Only way to quest. Thanks for the info.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by icekinslayer View Post
    This is all pure Opinion, Not fact. If you can lock up 10 mobs, that means they are beating on you, and not your squishy squishy party members. Keep hitting the intim, keep the mobs locked up, and your party members can show off how much dps they have without having to Kite them. And btw, having mobs locked up in intimidate, means that you can stand still while shield blocking. It is pure nonsense to assume that you'd have to kite them all over if you get agro.
    Um.

    Am I misunderstanding something here? I thought the "tank" was a tactical task, being the one that holds the enemy's attention.

    That's what I often do when my sons want to play rogues - their DPS goes way up when they can get sneak attacks or even assassinates to land, which they do a lot more of when someone else has aggro.

    Oh, and for a tank job I usually bring either AOE damage or cleaves/glancing blows so the tighter they group around me, the better my DPS is too.

    That's a net + for everyone on the team, usually...

    Now, *how* you do that is a different question from *when/if* you *should* be doing it.


    With how paladins work, the trick may be more in knowing when and how not to be a tank.

    BTW, since when are tanks necessarily slow? That's more of a hindrance in the job, really - the tank should be out front. (Reconnaissance should at times be moving ahead of that of course, but ready to turn back to attack the enemy's point from behind when appropriate...)


    Now, most of the time the tank must stay alive while under threat, to be successful. Paladins make good tanks mostly because they tend to be good at staying alive, and therefore can go on keeping the enemy's attention.


    And yes, I do consider tank-like tactics even when soloing occasionally appropriate for the quest. And also, I do consider the common wizard method of luring groups of enemies into a firewall/death aura/whatever a subset of tanking tactics in this context. (Firewall just isn't persistent enough to be considered fortifications.)
    Last edited by mna; 08-28-2013 at 10:05 PM.
    No longer completely f2p as of November 2014. Father of 3 more DDO players so far (I do have more children than that).

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