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  1. #1
    Community Member bsquishwizzy's Avatar
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    Default Love / hate relationship with the new lootgen.

    You know, I was pretty impressed with the last time the upgraded random loot. I pulled this Scimitar with CON poison and a CON stat damager – it is a lvl 14 BtCoE item, and it is still really useful up at lvl 19. I got a couple of items like that.

    But the new stuff? Notsomuch.

    I’m having a real love-hate relationship with the new lootgen. There are some things I like, and some stuff I really can’t stand.

    Lovin’ it:
    1) New augment slot colors. Recently I pulled boots with a green augment slot on them. Very nice.

    2) Cursed items. Kinda cool. I can’t say I agree with the implementation, though.

    3) New attributes. I like the double-strike attributes. I like Solar.

    4) BtCoE still maintained.

    5) BtCoE named items – I pulled a very NICE set of boots from a chest yesterday in the High Road heroic (elite boots, I might add). I’m going to give them to my rogue. One of the party members said something like they were drooling over those boots. If I check out my rogue and find that I really can’t use them (I’m a fan of the Cannith boots and use them on all my toons) , I can still find that former party member (I wrote down their name) and give him the boots. Nothing is written in stone.

    Not likin’:
    1) Items with augments drop like candy from the skies. I’m pulling LOTS more items with red and blue augment slots. I thought these were too rare in the past, but now they drop way too frequently. I think it would be better if it was cut back by half.

    2) Cursed items. Half of the fun of cursed items is that you shouldn’t know if they are cursed before you either have them identified, or put them on. Yeah, I know they are cursed in one area, and great in another, but somehow that seems to cheapen the whole notion of a curse.

    3) Ghostbane – meh. Not sure if this attribute is available at lower levels, but it seems more of a combination of undead bane and ghost touch. There are a gozillion items in DDO with ghost touch, that provide ghost touch, and holy and undead bane is easy to craft or pick up. Plus, I’m finding that this drops at an inordinate rate to anything else. I went up on the AH, and found basically nothing buy Ghostbane weapons.

    4) Deathblock – there are now levels of deathblock? Either it works or it doesn’t, there are no levels. Having something that prevents neg levels I think is a nice idea, but I’m not all that keen on mixing it in with deathblck AND breaking that up into tiers.

    5) Acid I, II, IV, etc. Sorry, but I just don’t get behind this tiered structure to damage. I think it is a decent concept, but I just feel that it wasn’t implemented properly. Maybe it’s just me.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsquishwizzy View Post
    3) Ghostbane – meh. Not sure if this attribute is available at lower levels, but it seems more of a combination of undead bane and ghost touch. There are a gozillion items in DDO with ghost touch, that provide ghost touch, and holy and undead bane is easy to craft or pick up. Plus, I’m finding that this drops at an inordinate rate to anything else. I went up on the AH, and found basically nothing buy Ghostbane weapons.

    4) Deathblock – there are now levels of deathblock? Either it works or it doesn’t, there are no levels. Having something that prevents neg levels I think is a nice idea, but I’m not all that keen on mixing it in with deathblck AND breaking that up into tiers.

    5) Acid I, II, IV, etc. Sorry, but I just don’t get behind this tiered structure to damage. I think it is a decent concept, but I just feel that it wasn’t implemented properly. Maybe it’s just me.
    3) I'm pretty sure Ghostbane has replaced Ghost Touch as an affix....so anything that used to drop with just "Avoid Incorp" now also gets a free Undead Bane.

    4) The levels refer to increasing % Neg Energy Absorb, which again is a freebie for the new ones. All Deathblock items still provide the same effects as pre-EP Deathblock

    5) The idea there is you're not locked into just 1d6 damage, from L3 until you get to L16+ or 18+ or wherever 2d6 prefixes start to drop. More quantization of DPS advancement through the mid levels.

  3. #3
    Community Member Sarzor's Avatar
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    The loot is insane power creep. There is no reason to ever equip anything else (besides torc or other rare attributes which will be in game next update).

    I mean, I pulled a ML:18 set of bracers with CON8 on them. Seriously? A prefix found rarely on some hard-to-get dragon helms now just drops in trash loot?

  4. #4
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarzor View Post
    The loot is insane power creep. There is no reason to ever equip anything else (besides torc or other rare attributes which will be in game next update).

    I mean, I pulled a ML:18 set of bracers with CON8 on them. Seriously? A prefix found rarely on some hard-to-get dragon helms now just drops in trash loot?
    I have to agree with this...

    They didn't have to ramp it up quite so much...

    +9s should be the new max, and then +10s a year from now... +8s on random loot, +9s on named gear. If +9s were the new max, all the +8 stuff we worked for before would still be very powerful, and in many cases worth keeping based on the other attributes on the item... Jumping to +10s and +11s really destroys older loot.

    On the positive side, I do like that opening chests is fun again.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eth View Post
    When you stop caring about xp/min this game becomes really fun. Trust me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gary_Gygax
    No single character has all the skills and resources needed to guarantee success in all endeavors; favorable results can usually only be achieved through group effort. No single player character wins, in the sense that he or she defeats all other player characters; the goal of the forces of good can only be attained through cooperation, so that victory is a group achievement rather than an individual one.

  5. #5
    Community Member Sarzor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    I have to agree with this...

    They didn't have to ramp it up quite so much...

    +9s should be the new max, and then +10s a year from now... +8s on random loot, +9s on named gear. If +9s were the new max, all the +8 stuff we worked for before would still be very powerful, and in many cases worth keeping based on the other attributes on the item... Jumping to +10s and +11s really destroys older loot.

    On the positive side, I do like that opening chests is fun again.
    Opening chests is a headache now. I don't know what anything is any more. They renamed everything, and not in an intuitive way.

    Nevermind the headache of trying to avoid clicking the "give Turbine money for being sneaky and putting the pay icon in a sketchy area/way."
    Last edited by Sarzor; 08-23-2013 at 12:49 PM. Reason: Forgot something

  6. #6
    Community Member Deathdefy's Avatar
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    Can things like Scintillating, Heavenly Wrath and Devastation still drop or has that moment in time passed?
    Khyber: Aggrim (Completionist!)
    In Von 3 the breakables in the Troll Ambassador optional room are slow to get to and unnecessary for ransack.
    Blind insta-kills floating eye balls.

  7. #7
    Community Member Soulfurnace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarzor View Post
    The loot is insane power creep. There is no reason to ever equip anything else (besides torc or other rare attributes which will be in game next update).

    I mean, I pulled a ML:18 set of bracers with CON8 on them. Seriously? A prefix found rarely on some hard-to-get dragon helms now just drops in trash loot?
    I have +5 dmg ML 11 slotted goggles... (I think. Either that or 13. Doesn't matter)
    Yeah, this is absurd power creep.

    Not to mention the slots. They are bloody everywhere.

  8. #8
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soulfurnace View Post
    Not to mention the slots. They are bloody everywhere.
    Well I love the slots... I need more green slots. Always.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eth View Post
    When you stop caring about xp/min this game becomes really fun. Trust me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gary_Gygax
    No single character has all the skills and resources needed to guarantee success in all endeavors; favorable results can usually only be achieved through group effort. No single player character wins, in the sense that he or she defeats all other player characters; the goal of the forces of good can only be attained through cooperation, so that victory is a group achievement rather than an individual one.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarzor View Post
    The loot is insane power creep. There is no reason to ever equip anything else (besides torc or other rare attributes which will be in game next update).

    I mean, I pulled a ML:18 set of bracers with CON8 on them. Seriously? A prefix found rarely on some hard-to-get dragon helms now just drops in trash loot?
    Skirmisher's gloves, ML:15 +8 str
    SKirmisher's bracers, ML:15 +8 dex

    Did a double take yesterday on those. ***? I also have the belt with Speed VIII and a necklace with Dodge +8%

    All ML: 15

  10. #10
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    Better hoard that loot before they nerf the random generator.

    I agree that the stuff dropping at lower levels <20 is OP. The stuff dropping around 24-28ML seems fine to me, though it throws all the "pre-built super specific plans" out of whack since finding a really nice piece could change how you think about your toon's gear. That's all to the better I feel, as someone who leads and participates in pugs. No more complaints about doing opts to get another chest, since pretty much any of them can drop something useful at a given moment. No more, rare loot is all there is, blah blah blah.

    I can completely see them tweaking the way its generating for lower levels, since you could already get decent random loot at those levels.

    The only people who should hate the new system are those hostages in Lesson of Deception. As a party member said. "They've should stayed with the group!", as we popped open a chest.

  11. #11
    The Hatchery
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    They nerfed the +4 to hit from crafting... but then add random gen loot that is much more powerful? Wut?
    <seemingly offensive Army of Darkness quote>

  12. #12
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Im fine with con 8 on ML 18 stuff. Seemed kind of odd that we get +6 stat items at level 11 and have to wait til we are in the 20s to get +8 stuff. That gap needed to be dealt with.

    The real power creep is in the other abilities, like deadly. It wasnt long ago that people were farming for 2 gear slots + coms to upgrade to get +4 to hit and damage, then an EH/EE GH item came out that had it, and now random mid level loot gen items have it.

    On the plus side, there shouldnt be any complaining about gear any more. Theres like 2-3 items competing for each slot for most mid level toons ive made so far.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  13. #13
    Community Member Soulfurnace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    Well I love the slots... I need more green slots. Always.
    While leveling? I needed 3 more slots.
    I got 5. What am I meant to do with two colourless slots?
    Pulled a +6 resistance w/ green slot, +4 deadly +3 accuracy (slight to-hit issues, oh well) cape w/ yellow slot, then a dodge +6 ring w/ green again. I know that gear isn't great, but everything manages to fit using assorted pieces.

    Yeah. I'm going to need to completely rebuild my TR set now. All the new options, all the slots... Half my old gear is invalidated, the rest is just hanging on. (I got close to removing greensteel)

  14. #14
    Community Member bsquishwizzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by droid327 View Post
    3) I'm pretty sure Ghostbane has replaced Ghost Touch as an affix....so anything that used to drop with just "Avoid Incorp" now also gets a free Undead Bane.
    Which is an issue with me.

    There are more than enough items in the game that give you ghost touch already, and you don't need to have the prefix on the weapon. There is no need to bundle ghost touch and undead bane at all. for example the Cloak of Night I have provides that.

    Secondly, Ghosts aren't the only thing out there that are incorporeal. The Dreaming Dark quests are full of incorporeal creatures that are not undead as far as I am aware.

    Plus, you now have all of the holy prefixes, undead bane suffixes, and light-damage modifiers on weapons that really hurt undead such that bundling these items can make a weapon that is unduly OP when it comes to undead.

    I still think this is a bad idea. And they also seem to be showing up everywhere.

    Quote Originally Posted by droid327 View Post
    4) The levels refer to increasing % Neg Energy Absorb, which again is a freebie for the new ones. All Deathblock items still provide the same effects as pre-EP Deathblock
    I realize that. However, you've always had a distinction between Death Ward and Deathblock, and neg level absorption. I'm personally on the fence about this one as I can see the connection, but my biggest concern is that when you start adding bonus things to equipment prefix / suffix items, you tilt the balance of the game. Beholders, for example, are a REALLY meddlesome for a lot of players because of their insane ability to basically strip away Death Ward, neg level you into oblivion, and/or kill you outright. Add a deathblock item, and they cannot kill you outright, but they can still mercilessly neg-level you. So, if you wanted to avoid this, you looked for some special gear that avoided the neg levels, like some specific named items (or simply became a HotD pally). While I thought there were a significant lack of those items in the game, the new lootgen now overcompensates (IMHO) and throws it onto deathblock. There is now no trading-off one piece of equipment for another. This I see as a potential unbalancing mechanism of the game. it would have been better to just add a prefix or suffix to random lootgen that avoided neg levels as opposed to rolling it into Deathblock.

    Quote Originally Posted by droid327 View Post
    5) The idea there is you're not locked into just 1d6 damage, from L3 until you get to L16+ or 18+ or wherever 2d6 prefixes start to drop. More quantization of DPS advancement through the mid levels.
    Yeah, after more thinking about it, I'm now on the fence about this. Adding a numerical identifier to determine certain damage types on weapons (and spell power boosters) eliminates a language descriptive term as a power identifier (like Major, greater, Superior, etc.).

  15. #15
    2016 DDO Players Council Qhualor's Avatar
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    I like the new loot and the option of slotting certain items in places we normally wouldn't slot. My biggest issue is more personal than anything else. A lot of it seems to replace gear that I normally would wear, but its a good thing because its better than what I have. Some of it definitely trumps some of the named loot and named end reward loot. It just goes to show how powerful random loot is compared to named loot and it really should be the other way around.

    After a night of questing, I now have a bank page of random gear that will replace old gear. Really like better ghost bane weapons, pulled a wisdom cloak, deadly and seeker items are cool and pulled a low level 80% fortification belt. When I have some real down time, the vendor is going to make a killing off me.

  16. #16
    Community Member bsquishwizzy's Avatar
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    One of my favorite pieces of equipment before this new update was a poison scimitar of weakening (?) with a CON damager on a critical hit. It was BtCoE. If it had an augment slot in it, I can say that I'd probably only have a couple of additional weapons so as to break DR. It would be as good as any named weapon out there. I think it is ML 14, and I'm using it in lvl 20 content and it works pretty good.

    I also has a paralyzing of lacerating Khopesh (which I had to give up this time around because I dropped Khopesh). That was good up until about lvl 19 content.

    I've gotten a few items like this in the past, including some BtCoE bow for my ranger that was ML 10 or 12 that had some just unbelievable crits when I used it in Sands - stuff would just drop dead after 1 or 2 hits. The previous lootgen maker wasn't all that bad.

  17. #17
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    I think the new random lootgen adds more interesting variety for non-weapon items (i.e. getting some effects on items where you previously couldn't).

    I hate the new random gen weapons though. Someone mentioned it above, but it looks like a lot of the really cool prefix/suffixes have been removed (obscenity, mangling, etc.). Now we are stuck with too many weapons that generate with tactics based suffixes, and not enough dps based ones. Bleh.

  18. #18
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    The most insane thing about this is we have yet again seen more loot from the previous mod been made into complete junk with this one. Best-in-slot items can't even last one mod? Really?

  19. #19
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    The new loot is really overpowering. I have 27 lives worth of gear, and ended up slotting two new things I pulled while questing for an hour through level 12 quests. That's just insane.

    Clearly one of three things is happening.

    1.) This is all a bug and lootgen tables/drop rates are broken. This could be, but we've already seen one hotfix. I would think that would be at the top of their list.

    2.) It's an attempt to bring casters and noncasters closer together. While casters got some new prefixes and suffixes, the majority has been a buff to melee.

    3.) DDO is moving away from a loot-centric grind game into something else. I don't know what that something else would be, but this could be a good possibility.

  20. #20
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    i have't seen parrying on anything but a weapon or shield. Has anyone found random accessory lootgen with some level of insight bonus to ac/saves?

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