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  1. #81
    Community Member NaturalHazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dandonk View Post
    /signed

    Oh, please. Less micromanaging, more gaming. Please.
    amen to that.

    I don't understand how some in this thread are sneering to those who don't enjoy staring at a bazillion cooldowns and spaming a lot of different keys. Sure some people struggle with that.........and there are others who can actually do very well with those mechanics but they don't enjoy playing that way.........it doesn't all have to do with this so called *skill* level at all but what play style people prefer. And i would actually like to see more of whats happening around me, and enjoy the game more than staring at all these cool down timers spamming so many buttons in a chain and half my screen seems filled with hotbars.

  2. #82
    Community Member deuxanes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    I love it. Now we can actively play the toon rather than auto attacking and moving around for position.
    From my gaming experience "moving around for position" is already too much a hassle for some players. Why complicate matters even more with active abilities? ,)

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by NaturalHazard View Post
    And i would actually like to see more of whats happening around me, and enjoy the game more than staring at all these cool down timers spamming so many buttons in a chain and half my screen seems filled with hotbars.
    Then build a character with fewer active abilities. They aren't mandatory.

    What you and others are asking for is the benefits of active abilities but without having to do anything, even something literally as simple as pressing a button.

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qaliya View Post
    Then build a character with fewer active abilities. They aren't mandatory.

    What you and others are asking for is the benefits of active abilities but without having to do anything, even something literally as simple as pressing a button.
    Without pressing 45 buttons. ALL the time. Instead of actually playing the quest. I fail to see the fun in it.
    <seemingly offensive Army of Darkness quote>

  5. #85
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    Then take passive enhancements. Nobody is forcing you to use active enhancements if you don't want to.

    But there has to be some sort of gate to the use of powerful abilities; with no trade-off, they'd be overpowered no-brainers used by everyone.

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qaliya View Post
    Then take passive enhancements. Nobody is forcing you to use active enhancements if you don't want to.

    But there has to be some sort of gate to the use of powerful abilities; with no trade-off, they'd be overpowered no-brainers used by everyone.
    Why not make them easier to use? Auto-use on attack when timer is off, so we can get on with playing the game instead of watching cooldowns? Do you actually find watching cooldowns instead of the game fun?
    <seemingly offensive Army of Darkness quote>

  7. #87
    Community Member NaturalHazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qaliya View Post
    Then build a character with fewer active abilities. They aren't mandatory.

    What you and others are asking for is the benefits of active abilities but without having to do anything, even something literally as simple as pressing a button.
    Funny enough I like active abilities I would find the game boring without having some but damn now it has seemed to multiply.

    Not mandatory but to get to certain abilities you have to spend points *somewhere* and whats the point in sacrificing points in things that you wont use? I have my feats, my spells, and my enhancements, all requiring button pushing that was enough now I have a ton of other enhancements to add to the mix. Its not so simple when theres dozens of buttons to press and they are all on different timers.

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qezuzu View Post
    Devs say it's okay to make scripts of hotkeys, since you're still sitting in front of your computer and playing DDO.

    If you somehow made a bot program that literally played the game for you, turning your character into a hireling or something, that's against the rules.
    Thank you for the clarification I will indeed now have a look at Autohotkey and see what all the fuss is about.

    Stoner81.

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azarddoze View Post
    This discourages me to go any further. But that's just me I guess.

    There's casual for you... maybe?
    I notice everyone one of your posts in this thread seems to try to put down others rather than discuss the actual issue.

  10. #90
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    people use hot keys? I use arrow keys to move, shift if I need to block, my middle button on my mouse is for jumping and I use the mouse arrow to click on my hot bars. I keep my hot bars as simple as possible and keep only what I would use on them. I know the quests so I can plan ahead and just slot what I need on them and play. this enhancement change moved my barb from 4 hot bars to 5 with 2 of them for clicking. I tried to use hot keys once but my hands were always getting twisted and confusing to me. now, the only problem I have is push to talk while I play.

  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citzen_Gkar View Post
    I notice everyone one of your posts in this thread seems to try to put down others rather than discuss the actual issue.
    I wish I could discuss the fact that people want to watch the action instead of playing the game as it's been shaped or being effective... but i'm sorry, I can't. I guess I am SO FAR from that reality, it's hard to grasp. What I can do though, is try to make them understand why I (and surely many other) actually like the more possibilities when it comes to playing our characters.

    I'm not putting anyone down, I am trying to do is explain that, if you don't wanna try and deal with what the active skills that the game offers... there are other that are happy with it and would even love more of it. This is not a movie after all. And then comes difficulty level where you can be put in an evironment where you could watch your character all the time while simply auto attacking if that is what you wish. There, even if you don't click everything right when it's off cooldown doesn't matter much, so you don't have to think about that only.


    When I jumped in the thread my point was really that if you're not willing to use everything at your disposal, just accept that your contribution won't be as good as if you would. Just don't use those skills, it's ok. Don't click all of them, still ok. You can complete the quests anyway. I like to click all of them. I find it adds "challenge" maybe not to the game itself, but to my personnal skills (yah... mouse/keyboard skills). What else there's gonna be if you take human actions from the game? A movie.
    Kal Vas Flam... Corp Por... Corp Por

    ...And then there was silence

  12. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azarddoze View Post
    When I jumped in the thread my point was really that if you're not willing to use everything at your disposal, just accept that your contribution won't be as good as if you would. Just don't use those skills, it's ok. Don't click all of them, still ok. You can complete the quests anyway. I like to click all of them. I find it adds "challenge" maybe not to the game itself, but to my personnal skills (yah... mouse/keyboard skills). What else there's gonna be if you take human actions from the game? A movie.
    Please, we're not talking about removing the need to play the game. We're talking about actually playing the game instead of mindlessly clicking and clicking and clicking, without time to actually look at what's going on in the quest.

    I fail to grasp why people would rather look at cooldown timers than at what's going on in the quest, but it takes all sorts, I guess.
    <seemingly offensive Army of Darkness quote>

  13. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dandonk View Post
    Please, we're not talking about removing the need to play the game. We're talking about actually playing the game instead of mindlessly clicking and clicking and clicking, without time to actually look at what's going on in the quest.
    Isn't that part of playing the game actually?


    Quote Originally Posted by Dandonk View Post
    I fail to grasp why people would rather look at cooldown timers than at what's going on in the quest, but it takes all sorts, I guess.
    Fair enought. Though that is because you seem to have a habit of exaggerating everything and still think that there are people only looking at their bars while clicking 45 keys... It's possible to watch the action and the cooldowns at the same time. Just drag your bar in the middle of the screen if you must, I don't know. But it's not an all or nothing situation.
    Last edited by Azarddoze; 08-24-2013 at 09:09 AM.
    Kal Vas Flam... Corp Por... Corp Por

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  14. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azarddoze View Post
    Isn't that part of playing the game actually?
    To a point. Until you have so many thing to watch that you are watching only them, and not everything else.

    Quote Originally Posted by Azarddoze View Post
    Fair enought. Though that is because you seem to have a habit of exaggerating everything and still think that there are people fixing their bars while clicking 45 keys... It's possible to watch the action and the cooldowns at the same time. Just drag your bar in the middle of the screen if you must, I don't know. But it's not an all or nothing situation.
    It's not all or nothing, no. What we're saying is that we think it's somewhat overboard now, where it was better balanced before. The balance, IMO, has been shifted too far to watching cooldown timers and clicking stuff that it interferes with actual gameplay.

    I want to be able to use the right tool for the job. As it is in the new system, I am mindlessly clicking stuff every time it's off timer in order to maximize DPS output. I find that silly. There is no challenge in that, no thinking. I'm not wondering what is best to use here, I'm just clicking it because it is off timer.

    I -can - play the new system. I just don't think it is fun, and I don't think it caters to the RPG basis of the game.
    <seemingly offensive Army of Darkness quote>

  15. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azarddoze View Post
    I
    I'm not putting anyone down, I am trying to do is explain that
    When you keep saying people who disagree with you should play casual, yes, you are putting others down.

    I find it adds "challenge" maybe not to the game itself, but to my personnal skills (yah... mouse/keyboard skills). What else there's gonna be if you take human actions from the game? A movie.
    Strawman. This game was considered a fun by many and was viewed as a highly interactive game back when most non casters had 0-3 thinks to click on besides attack. I type 70wpm, but I don't want to play a typing tutor. Staring at cool downs is not a challenge for me or many others, its a sleep inducing bore that makes us not want to play. Your repeated suggestions that we are somehow inferior in our skills is frankly ignorant, we just enjoy a different play style. Not enjoying something isn't the same as not being capable of it.

  16. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azarddoze View Post
    I guess i'm just sick and tired of games being dumbed down because of people complaining when there are different difficulty levels available to suit them if they're not willing to try. Anway... I've said what I wanted to say on this subject and I don't master enought english words to re-explain myself in any other way.
    This is kind of insulting - how fast you can interface with the game does not = the difficulty of the actual game. There are plenty of very simple games out there that test the speed you can hit keys.

  17. #97
    The Hatchery Urist's Avatar
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    My problem with a lot of the clickies is that they're just busy-work. If you're chaining the same few moves together repeatedly (cleave, great cleave, supreme cleave, whatever), then you're effectively gaining nothing over having it be a toggled stance, and losing all the people who find hitting the same buttons over and over again to be tedious.

    To me, clicky abilities should have tactical effects, something you use to best effect only situationally: trip when a dog starts dancing, dogpiling a foe on the floor, bull rush as you close in, etc.
    Clickies with special effects should do *less* base damage, not more, otherwise they become the default attacks (for those that can tolerate it), and they may as well just be passive +damage bonuses.

    My preference would be to meld all the short-cooldown active clickies into a fewer number of offensive combat stances. Having to pick the best stance to be in adds tactical decisions, rather than just digital dexterity. Other enhancements and feats can improve those stances, with improved speed, more damage or special effects.
    So something like Cleave could become a stance - with a lower base damage (-0.5[W], say), but every attack hits in a wide arc. Then Great Cleave could increase the attack rate, damage (eg. +0.5[W]) and/or the arc of attacks in the basic cleave stance.

    And while I do believe there is a place for longer cool-down special attacks, I do think that more should simply become modifiers to normal attacks or stances, but with a "no more than once every x seconds" caveat (similar to some other passive abilities which already exist).

  18. #98
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    Allright, sorry to those I seem to have insulted, wasn't my intention. Now that I have re-repeated what I have said and that I don't see this is going anywhere since it's just two completly different mindsets, i'll let your thread go back to it's initial purpose.
    Kal Vas Flam... Corp Por... Corp Por

    ...And then there was silence

  19. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dandonk View Post
    It's not all or nothing, no. What we're saying is that we think it's somewhat overboard now, where it was better balanced before. The balance, IMO, has been shifted too far to watching cooldown timers and clicking stuff that it interferes with actual gameplay.

    I want to be able to use the right tool for the job. As it is in the new system, I am mindlessly clicking stuff every time it's off timer in order to maximize DPS output. I find that silly. There is no challenge in that, no thinking. I'm not wondering what is best to use here, I'm just clicking it because it is off timer.

    I -can - play the new system. I just don't think it is fun, and I don't think it caters to the RPG basis of the game.
    Exactly. My pre-U19 SoS wielding fighter was a blast to play. Throwing out cleaves, trips, stuns, etc, all at the right time was strategy. My play style was well suited to LD and I had another 3 or 4 regularly used hotkeys for that. That however was the limit for my enjoyment. And honestly I tripped and stunned less the more ED stuff I got because I didn't enjoy watching that many timers.

  20. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qaliya View Post
    The reason for transformation "from an RPG to an FPS" is pretty obvious: the only interactions between player and "dungeon master" here are mouse and keyboard, so that's the only way to introduce variety and/or some semblance of difficulty.

    You can't compare DDO to P&P because there's no human DM to provide challenge. No matter how many quests Turbine puts in, players will memorize them within a few days and then there is no "role playing" anyway -- it's all meta knowledge. Nobody plays P&P that way.

    In other words -- DDO is only a "role playing game" for most people for their first few weeks (if that).
    Not everyone has completely memorized the game. Some people don't grind a quest over and over or grind TRs over and over. There are certain quests that I have memorized at the low level because of my many alts. But there are plenty of quests at higher levels that I have only done a few times with enough time between them that they aren't completely memorized. Plus every time I play with a new player, I enjoy their experience vicariously. I don't drag them through a quest at zerg speed just because I already know it. Certain players may have memorized the game as you say, but I believe they are a small percentage of the player base.

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