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  1. #1
    Community Member TekkenDevil's Avatar
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    Default WAY too many active abilities in the new enhancement trees...

    My melee-centric toons all feel like spellcasters now. On most of my toons I don't even know what keys to bind all this to.
    I'm minimalistic, I only bind keys that are within easy reach: Q,E,V,B,F,G,1,2,3,4... But you know what, it's worked in the past, even on my monks!

    On top of all the spellcasting and combat feats, my FvS now has SIX NEW active abilities from the enhancement tree. And there's even MORE coming once I start leveling epic destinies. This is overkill. I can't bind all of this without having to use draconic, off-hand keys. Why are these active abilities necessary? Where did they even come up with all this from? Weren't we supposed to keep some sort of parity with pen & paper?

    I'm not saying the update is bad, but I feel like a lot of the enhancements are just misguided, and try to bring the fun aspects of Epic Destinies to heroic levels, but it gets bogged down with all the actives now. Most of this stuff is completely unnecessary to begin with, content below end-game was easy enough without getting misc DPS/Armor boosts. These are the sort of thing you look at and go "neat", but rarely ever going to make REAL use of for most of the game.
    Last edited by IWCoppercrest; 08-23-2013 at 09:23 PM. Reason: **** for profanity

  2. #2
    Community Member Forzah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TekkenDevil View Post
    My melee-centric toons all feel like spellcasters now. On most of my toons I don't even know what keys to bind all this to.
    I'm minimalistic, I only bind keys that are within easy reach: Q,E,V,B,F,G,1,2,3,4... But you know what, it's worked in the past, even on my monks!

    On top of all the spellcasting and combat feats, my FvS now has SIX NEW active abilities from the enhancement tree. And there's even MORE coming once I start leveling epic destinies. This is overkill. I can't bind all of this without having to use draconic, off-hand keys. Why are these active abilities necessary? Where did they even come up with all this from? Weren't we supposed to keep some sort of parity with pen & paper?

    I'm not saying the update is bad, but I feel like a lot of the enhancements are just misguided, and try to bring the fun aspects of Epic Destinies to heroic levels, but it gets bogged down with all the actives now. Most of this stuff is completely unnecessary to begin with, content below end-game was easy enough without getting misc DPS/Armor boosts. These are the sort of thing you look at and go "neat", but rarely ever going to make REAL use of for most of the game.
    You can bind actions to a "ctrl + key" combination as well. That should help a bit.
    Last edited by IWCoppercrest; 08-23-2013 at 09:24 PM.

  3. #3
    Community Member NaturalHazard's Avatar
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    I feel like.................well like something that bashes a lot of keys over and over.

  4. #4
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    Default Or...

    Personally, I autohotkey'ed my numberpad (when num lock is off) to correspond to the numbers on bar 2 so with num lock off I have a full 20 easy bar activations. Actually 19 since it seems autohotkey has a problem mapping the 5 on the numberpad, but that's a different discussion. I have yet to break down and start mapping the insert-pagedown block to actions/combos yet.

    And with the new enhancements, I have to say I was actually more tempted to buy one of those logitech mice with the 12 function keys on it. Heh, looks awesome, but I dunno how nimble my thumb is to be able to confidently press the right funciton key at the right time.

  5. #5
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    I'm entirely in agreement. I'm a minimalist too and in general don't want to have to activate and keep track of hordes of 30 second boosts and temporary abilities. My paladin will probably never even use some of the less thrilling stances made available to him.

    Aside from finger and wrist health (and that IS a problem), I just don't find having to pick from an array of things that will only last a few seconds to be fun. Nothing against those who do. Any game that pushes these on me as a requirement to be effective is going in a different direction than I'm interested in.

    (Within reason, of course, a few temporary boosts/abilities makes sense, but I'd prefer they be in only the more tougher encounters, not in every trash mob I come across, and I'd prefer they be from a modest selection and not from pages of options.)

  6. #6
    Community Member bartharok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by My2Cents View Post
    I'm entirely in agreement. I'm a minimalist too and in general don't want to have to activate and keep track of hordes of 30 second boosts and temporary abilities. My paladin will probably never even use some of the less thrilling stances made available to him.

    Aside from finger and wrist health (and that IS a problem), I just don't find having to pick from an array of things that will only last a few seconds to be fun. Nothing against those who do. Any game that pushes these on me as a requirement to be effective is going in a different direction than I'm interested in.

    (Within reason, of course, a few temporary boosts/abilities makes sense, but I'd prefer they be in only the more tougher encounters, not in every trash mob I come across, and I'd prefer they be from a modest selection and not from pages of options.)
    There is always the option of not using them, which means not having them on a bar you use. And if you believe you will need them move them over.

    Requires a bit of work, i know, but might work for those that dont want to use them that much.
    Dystopia = utopia achieved

  7. #7
    Community Member FranOhmsford's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amundir View Post
    Personally, I autohotkey'ed my numberpad (when num lock is off) to correspond to the numbers on bar 2 so with num lock off I have a full 20 easy bar activations. Actually 19 since it seems autohotkey has a problem mapping the 5 on the numberpad, but that's a different discussion. I have yet to break down and start mapping the insert-pagedown block to actions/combos yet.

    And with the new enhancements, I have to say I was actually more tempted to buy one of those logitech mice with the 12 function keys on it. Heh, looks awesome, but I dunno how nimble my thumb is to be able to confidently press the right funciton key at the right time.
    Do you have 3 Hands by any chance?

    The Number Pad is on the opposite side of the Keyboard to W A S & D + Q & E

    My Right Hand is on the Mouse - And if I take my Right Hand off the Mouse = Ouchy!

    My main Bar has 10 Slots on Every Character {Frankly the Least Bar Intensive Characters in the Game require 3 Bars minimum by Lvl 20!}.
    My Clerics have 8-10!

    Yet I use just 4 {Possibly 5} Hotkeys - 1-4/5
    For Everything else I have to use the Mouse!

    I've got the greatest respect for those of you who can keep track of so many hotkeys but I know that there's no way I could.
    DDO is the ONLY Computer Game I play at this time - I've spent up to 3/4 days total in any one other MMO {SW:ToR Kept me interested the longest} - Before DDO the Only Computer Games I'd played more than a couple of times in the previous DECADE were Madden NFL and This is Football!

    DDO caters to a crowd who like me have minimal Gaming Experience but love Dungeons & Dragons!
    No Character should have so many Short Term abilities that the 10 Slots on main bar cannot cope with them all!

    Divines have just 3 Useful Spells of Less than 4 Minutes Extended at Lvl 15 {Divine Favour, Divine Power and Recitation}.
    Arcanes have 3 too {Haste, Displacement and Rage}.
    Most BARD Songs last about this same length of time

    Why on Earth do Melees need 15+ Clickies {Possible Exaggeration} of Less than 2 Minute Duration?

  8. #8
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    I have to agree with not being a fan of active abilities. Humans have gotten those boost enhancements for years and I have never taken them (except when required for a prestige class) because I know I will almost never used them. If the buff is only going to last 20 seconds then the button is probably not worth pushing. I always give priority to passive abilities over active ones because I know the passive ones will actually get used while the active ones will rarely be used. A lot of the new enhancement trees just don't have enough useful passive abilities for me to spend points on and so I end up with a bunch of active abilities that I don't really want.
    Everyone who is not in the true definition of "hardcore" is looked down on as a "casual", unwilling or incapable of understanding the true brilliance of having twelve-year-olds insult you while they are teabagging your virtual corpse. - Christian Ward columnist for The Escapist

  9. #9
    Community Member Noctus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by My2Cents View Post
    I'm entirely in agreement. I'm a minimalist too and in general don't want to have to activate and keep track of hordes of 30 second boosts and temporary abilities. My paladin will probably never even use some of the less thrilling stances made available to him.

    Aside from finger and wrist health (and that IS a problem), I just don't find having to pick from an array of things that will only last a few seconds to be fun. Nothing against those who do. Any game that pushes these on me as a requirement to be effective is going in a different direction than I'm interested in.

    (Within reason, of course, a few temporary boosts/abilities makes sense, but I'd prefer they be in only the more tougher encounters, not in every trash mob I come across, and I'd prefer they be from a modest selection and not from pages of options.)
    /signed.

    100% agreement. You are speaking from the tip of my tongue.
    Erzskalde (Warchanter) / Erzmarschall (melee FvS) / Erzsoldat (waiting for TR-time) / Erzschmied (ranged Artificer)

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  10. #10
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    Google Autohotkey.

  11. #11
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    If you're using a standard keyboard, that's weak sauce regardless how you hotkey it. This will solve all your hotkey problems forever. I've got 26 bar slots and the directional keys tied just to the middle portion of the keyboard alone.



    I like to think everyone gets to experience what playing a monk is like now.

  12. #12
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    I love it. Now we can actively play the toon rather than auto attacking and moving around for position.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  13. #13
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    I have 20 keys bound, and 12 mouse buttons. I'll either get carpal tunnel or become a professional pianist. Whichever comes first.

    Now, I didn't mind a few more here and there to spice up things. But the amount we have now is just silly.
    It's definitely an N-word.

  14. #14
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    I don't mind more clicky options, but I did have to set up another hot bar. Originally I had a few more clicky enhancements chosen on my barbarian, but it was just too many. I had to give up a few and select passive ones. As it is now, by the time I cycle through them, I start at the beginning and go back down the line. My TR is a monk again this life and it was already hard enough for finishing moves, stun and the other goodies but now I have twice as many clickys and don't really use them all. I'm not actually griping. Options like this is a good thing, but my fingers get tired pretty quickly now.

  15. #15
    Community Member SiliconScout's Avatar
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    OP I feel your pain.

    For me I have (so far) been able to avoid most of them as I have found that many of the active abilities have too short a duration to be all that useful. Don't get me wrong I do have some but the fact that some of them were active actually made me pick something, anything, else.

    I redid my Kensai last night and the only ones I took were my dragon marks because halflings need their heals, haste boost and the +6 str one (can't remember what it's named). I found that I did the same thing when I was running ED's on many of my toons as well.

    I just am not going to remember to click that thing every 30 seconds for a 5-20 second boost and so far it's not been hurting me at all.

    Now my Monk is a different matter entirely but I haven't respecced him yet so I hope it at least stays the same. If that got worse then I suspect he might get parked for a while.

    Either do active combat or button mashing (WoW style), do both and honestly


  16. #16
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    Default Shakes head sadly

    Its sad that so few players who think themselves DDO players are actually DDO players. Since DDO launched one of the few features widely talked about in MMO circles and well respected is its ability to put so many hot bars on your screen, and customize their positions to your hearts content. This might not sound like some great feature but its actually a very rare thing among MMO UI customization options.

    And since that first month of the games life, the vast majority of spell casting players I know keep bars 1-9 all open and stacked up on the lower right hand corner of their screen with each bar being for that level of spells they currently have memorized. Which is why ofcourse I and most spell casting players have always laughed heartily when warrior wannabes like the OP here post complaints about needing more then 10 active abilities. Must be using a xbox controller or somthing is all I can imagine to be so limited.

    These same people who cant handle more then 10 abilities or so, often try to deride us casters by calling us the one button wonders, the i win button players, the ones who want the game to be as easy as possible. But it is literally the classic case of those doing great effort making it look easy to those who have no idea of the extent of the ability they are actually using.

    If you cant handle keeping track of many different factors all at the same time, then a fast paced, complex character building 1st-3rd person action RPG is truly not a game for you, if your a warrior who thinks running up to a mob, standing still, and hitting cleave great cleave sunder trip stunning blow over and over is a skilled and challenging way to play DDO your almost certainly one of those mana sponges you hear divine players often speak of with a less then positive tone.

    DDO is a niche game, honestly so niche its not enough to love old PnP D&D you actually need to be a very competent action/shooter gamer as well or this game frankly is just not for you and never was.

  17. #17
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    I don't know, but most casters I talk to and play with cycle through the same spells, not 9 hot bar worth of spells. Of course, it depends on the quest and what type of caster you are. I do know that casters/healers use more hot bars than melees generally, but I can't believe they have 9 hot bars of spells that they actively use in every quest. I can believe them using mana clickies, using scrolls, switching caster sticks, clicking on pots and swapping gear but so don't melees swap, switch, drink, etc.

  18. #18
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    I noticed this as soon as I regeared my melee. The number of active abilities I had roughly tripled. I even had a couple of enhancements I didn't take because I didn't want more.

    But overall I think it's a good thing, because it represents a tradeoff: I can get more DPS, but I have to pay attention and use the abilities that provide it. If I don't want more DPS or don't need it in a particular quest, I can ignore those keys.

    That said, I use a keyboard that has the function keys on the left side, which makes life much, much easier.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karavek View Post
    DDO is a niche game, honestly so niche its not enough to love old PnP D&D you actually need to be a very competent action/shooter gamer.
    This.

    I love that my rogue now gets almost as many useful abilities as my monk. I'm imagining most of the complaints come from two-finger typists or people who still wish games relied on this:



    Fact remains, you can get thru most content without maximizing your keyboard skills, but having a panetheon of situational active abilities to choose from depending on the moment is quite fun for those of us not born with meathooks for hands and who paid attention in typing class.

  20. #20
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    I had my experience with "clicky shock" on Lama, testing things out. I figured out the problem was I was building my character wrong, trying to squeeze in too many active attacks. You're gated by cooldown and attack animation/rate, after all, so all you really need is 2-3 general attacks to cycle through (1-4), self heal button, and a couple situational skills you will occasionally use (long-cooldown abilities, action boosts, etc. (Shift 1-4).

    If you have more than that, you probably wont be able to use them all fast enough anyway, so you're moving sideways more than advancing. Better to plan a build that lets you invest in passive skills to improve the couple attacks already in your rotation.

    Case in point: I played around with a Qstaff rogue/druid build. I had the Cleave line in LD, so LW/MS/GC/C, plus just two other attacks from Enhancements - the 25% Doublestrike one, and the TA Cleave (which seems to qualify as a Cleave to reset MS, serendipitously). I filled out the rest with passive bonuses - Beguile, +crit bonuses from TA and NW, attack speed, Dodge and defense, stances, etc. LD Cleave line was already one of the button-mashiest builds, but I was able to spend 80 points enhancing it and not just adding more gadgets in my bat-belt.

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