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  1. #21
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    What's insulting is that I paid for the new "expansion" and it contains no raid, the quest xp sucks, and the EE gear that drops in quests is inferior to the random gen loot that is dropping all over the place. Good thing I paid so much freaking money for the "expansion". I felt burned by the first expansion after it went on 75% sale shortly after release, but at least it had a raid, quality raid gear, the gear from quests was top notch, and it came with epic destinies and tons of free content. This "expansion" pack sucks. For $80 I'd say I got less than what I would get with the $5-8 gianthold or vale packs.

  2. #22
    Community Member Rogann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mystera View Post
    What's insulting is that I paid for the new "expansion" and it contains no raid, the quest xp sucks, and the EE gear that drops in quests is inferior to the random gen loot that is dropping all over the place.

  3. #23
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    Please correct me if I am wrong but my feeling is, that the lvl 24-25 raid and EE named gear that we have, will still be mostly viable, at least for awhile.

    The reason is as following:
    Sure there are many lootgen things with very cool and better stuff. But the question is, what are you taking off? The raid and EE stuff has MORE things on them per item, than most loot gen.

    Say you have "a" AND "b" AND "c" AND "d" on a single item. If you only want "a+" with "e" (that is a new effect altogether, like deadly) and are willing to give up in b,c,d; then great. But if you need a-d, even though individually there are better numbers (120 vs. 138 power), probably better to keep the old item.

    I think most of us will end up keeping on most of the lvl 24/25 EE/raid gear, yet giving up 1-3 slots for loot gen. Maybe eventually we will collect so much good lootgen we will be able to switch out more and more, but for the immediate and medium future, I don't see myself switching much.
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  4. #24
    Community Member Bilger's Avatar
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    CITW weapons such as Celestia, Pinion, and some others are awesome still. What SS can bypass all with light being it's type. Pinion is still highest dps bow in game. There are a couple more there that slipping mind atm.

    Greatsword from FOT isn't a slacker as far as GS go.

    Halcyon Boots are wanted by a lot of people great for cocoons and such and can be a +10 dex item with striding and +2 dex slotted.

    Comms are needed for armor and CITW weapon upgrades.

    So IMO atm still some reasons to run the quest, but are dwindling fast.
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  5. #25
    Community Member NaturalHazard's Avatar
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    Dont forget torc.........its so low level and old but I do use it from time to time on all my characters no matter what the level is. Especially when soloing.

  6. #26
    Community Member NaturalHazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikarddo View Post
    Twilight is 80 potency, +120 impulse, +120 any, red slot, +6% crits to all
    A random loot gen q-staff is 92 potency, +138 any, +138 any, red slot, +19% crits to one type (maybe higher than 19%).
    Sure, Twilight also has +3 DC to evoc and enchant - but +3 isnt high anymore with +5 DC being common on the new gear.

    So, Twilight isnt bad but I would probably just take the loot gen instead.

    Thus I ask again - is there any (FoT or CitW) raid loot thats still better than the new lootgen ML 28 stuff?
    I was talking about the melee and ranged weapons in citw not the one casting stick in there.

  7. #27
    Community Member TheLegendOfAra's Avatar
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    Honestly, I've yet to see a single item that would replace any of my EEGH, CITW, and FOT items. Don't get me wrong, some of it looks interesting, but none of the named items stand out as best in slot compared to what I already have. And I've never been a fan of lootgen items tbh. At least, not looking to make them an actual spot in my gear set up. For the simple fact they are lootgen, and finding that uber perfect item is nice, but really unlikely, and entirely up to luck.

    I prefer to know that if I farm a certain chest, at some point the item I want will drop for me. Regardless of how low the drop rates may be. I do not like searching the AH every day for that one item, or farming random chests with no guarantee that I'll ever even see the theoretical item.

    And I think it will be a nice long while before we see weapons that invalidate the CITW weapons. Even if we see some that are better in some ways, I doubt I'll be seeing anything that compares to Pinion or Celestia.
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  8. #28
    Community Member Bilger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLegendOfAra View Post
    Honestly, I've yet to see a single item that would replace any of my EEGH, CITW, and FOT items. Don't get me wrong, some of it looks interesting, but none of the named items stand out as best in slot compared to what I already have. And I've never been a fan of lootgen items tbh. At least, not looking to make them an actual spot in my gear set up. For the simple fact they are lootgen, and finding that uber perfect item is nice, but really unlikely, and entirely up to luck.

    I prefer to know that if I farm a certain chest, at some point the item I want will drop for me. Regardless of how low the drop rates may be. I do not like searching the AH every day for that one item, or farming random chests with no guarantee that I'll ever even see the theoretical item.

    And I think it will be a nice long while before we see weapons that invalidate the CITW weapons. Even if we see some that are better in some ways, I doubt I'll be seeing anything that compares to Pinion or Celestia.
    The character I capped yesterday already has switched out 4 GH items for Loot Gen items. Gained +2 wisdom, strength, dex, con(all stats from +7 slots and +8 items to +9 or +10), 2% dodge(dun ring to boots with con and dodge and 2 slots), +5 damage(visor +5 for deadly +10), +2 resistance(+7 for +9 on same item as deadly), and +4 ac (+9 nat and prot from +7's). Funny thing is have open ring slot atm looking at one of named items that drops from new quests to fill it. Was well worth switching for me.

    I understand your point though, but I won't search for specific items I search for the stats and work around with what find in chests and AH. Easy to do and if can't findwhat need don't change a thing if can't make it work.

    I agree on the weapons and such and even listed a couple other things in previous post, but the lootgen atm is rediculous and easily is replacing a lot of named loot atm.
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  9. #29
    Community Member NaturalHazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLegendOfAra View Post
    Honestly, I've yet to see a single item that would replace any of my EEGH, CITW, and FOT items. Don't get me wrong, some of it looks interesting, but none of the named items stand out as best in slot compared to what I already have. And I've never been a fan of lootgen items tbh. At least, not looking to make them an actual spot in my gear set up. For the simple fact they are lootgen, and finding that uber perfect item is nice, but really unlikely, and entirely up to luck.

    I prefer to know that if I farm a certain chest, at some point the item I want will drop for me. Regardless of how low the drop rates may be. I do not like searching the AH every day for that one item, or farming random chests with no guarantee that I'll ever even see the theoretical item.

    And I think it will be a nice long while before we see weapons that invalidate the CITW weapons. Even if we see some that are better in some ways, I doubt I'll be seeing anything that compares to Pinion or Celestia.
    well dream visor are just.........after accuracy and deadly items......like googles +8 to hit and damage, or +8 to hit and +8 resistance or even +9 resistance that I have seen. Then theres the +9 or more to stats, +9% double strike, 120% fort quite a few really really nice stuff.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikarddo View Post
    Thus I ask again - is there any (FoT or CitW) raid loot thats still better than the new lootgen ML 28 stuff?
    Oh, you didn't say "FoT or CitW" the first time. :-)

    Hmm...well, with the change to Spell Focus Mastery stacking, the Tablecloth still has something going for it, even though it's +8 stats and Greater Spell Pen have both been devalued.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikarddo View Post
    Twilight is 80 potency, +120 impulse, +120 any, red slot, +6% crits to all
    A random loot gen q-staff is 92 potency, +138 any, +138 any, red slot, +19% crits to one type (maybe higher than 19%).
    And you could pick up to lootgen 1-handers, and have FOUR spell power types, and TWO crit types (or crit type and a school DC), potentially making Twilight look even worse.

    Quote Originally Posted by mikarddo View Post
    Sure, Twilight also has +3 DC to evoc and enchant - but +3 isnt high anymore with +5 DC being common on the new gear.

    So, Twilight isnt bad but I would probably just take the loot gen instead.
    Yup.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bilger View Post
    CITW weapons such as Celestia, Pinion, and some others are awesome still. What SS can bypass all with light being it's type. Pinion is still highest dps bow in game. There are a couple more there that slipping mind atm.
    Pinion is awesome bow for a melee toon. For a primary archer, Bow of Sinew is probably better. Not to mention, easier to get. And m. 14.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirValentine View Post
    Hmm...well, with the change to Spell Focus Mastery stacking, the Tablecloth still has something going for it, even though it's +8 stats and Greater Spell Pen have both been devalued.
    What change was that? What stacks?

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by NaturalHazard View Post
    I was talking about the melee and ranged weapons in citw not the one casting stick in there.
    I am a caster only really so I would not know how to accurately compare the raid melee or ranged weapons to the new loot gen ones. I am hoping someone else might

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirValentine View Post
    And you could pick up to lootgen 1-handers, and have FOUR spell power types, and TWO crit types (or crit type and a school DC), potentially making Twilight look even worse.
    True, much harder to do if you have splashed monk and want to remain centered but still true and very viable for some builds.

  16. #36
    Community Member Ryiah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mystera View Post
    What's insulting is that I paid for the new "expansion" and it contains no raid
    I felt similar at one point until I ran "What Goes Up". That quest is absolutely brutal compared to any raid I have ever run. Both on this game and others. This expansion definitely does not lack on the challenge department.
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  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by era42 View Post
    Pinion is awesome bow for a melee toon. For a primary archer, Bow of Sinew is probably better. Not to mention, easier to get. And m. 14.
    Nah, you need ridiculous damage bonuses for bow of sinew to pull ahead, especially if the pinion is fully upgraded and slotted. Even at level 14 Unwavering Ardency would be better unless you have hundreds of points in strength or something.

    If you just compare each attack roll (assume hit on 2, even though I know it may not be true), assume point blank shot, improved critical and combat archery, and a physical damage modifier (so strength, deadly items, etc) of D
    Sinew:
    2-16: 3d8+5+D
    17-18: 9d8+39+3D
    19-20: 12d8+52+4D
    Total for all 20: 87d8 (average 391.5) + 257 + 29D, or 648.5+29D

    Pinion:
    2-16: 9d6 + 8 + 3d6(sonic) + 1d10(augment) +D
    17-20: 27d6 + 54 + 3d6 + 1d10 + 3D
    Total for all 20: 243d6 (average 850.5) + 336 + 57d6 (average 199.5) + 19d10 (average 104.5) + 27D, or 1490.5+27D

    So basically, using pure +damage stuff alone, you would need +421 physical damage alone to close the gap. Other things can affect it a little, such as an exceptional seeker item or seeker item higher than +8 (both would be slightly in Sinew's favor), but basically it's way too far of a gap to realistically close. Also, anything else that boosts critical stuff that I didn't include, like Overwhelming Critical or Adrenaline, gives Pinion advantage due to higher base damage.

  18. #38
    Community Member ZeebaNeighba's Avatar
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    Also for good raid loot in general:

    A few raid loot items are just too unique to be "outclassed" by lootgen, and they may not always be best in slot but they have purposes that no other loot can do.
    • Celestia- No other way to do pure light damage with a weapon. Nice DR breaker, and nice to combo with light weakness (like from Angel of Vengeance guard)
    • Halcyon Boots, Torc, upgraded Toven's Hammer, Concordant opposition greensteel- SP regen on hit, nowhere else you'll find that
    • Quiver of Alacrity- just having some buff in the quiver slot (only Quiver of Poison and Quivering Quiver do anything other than store arrows)
    • Litany of the Dead- +1 profane bonus to all stats which you can not get anywhere else in the game for some of those stats
    • Certain items with unique clickies- not much harm in a clicky right? Vile Blasphemy, Noxious Embers, Deific Diadem, Litany of the Dead, Circle of Hatred for pale masters with stat damage
    • Greensteel exceptional HP/SP gear- Yes, there are a couple other pieces of loot with it, but usually not all of the exceptional HP/SP at once nor on the slot you want it to be on.
    • Madstone Aegis with shield bashing 20% and some nice damage for bashing, it's nice offensively if you're S&B. Not too keen on tank builds though so I don't know how good lootgen gets defensively, but I know I've never seen free shield bashing on lootgen.


    And also a lot of weapons that simply stayed powerful, often with extra critical stuff.
    • Pinion for Bows
    • Needle for Crossbows (I think?)
    • Sireth for Quarterstaffs
    • Epic Sword of Shadows for 2 handed weapons
    • Balizarde

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ungood View Post
    Pity too, because I think quite a few people took pride, time, and efforts, as well good measure of joy in the getting of some of these items, and then to have all that just robbed from them is not cool in my book.
    If you didn't catch on with MotU, DDO is now in full churn mode. Regular paid expansions, which invalidate everything that came before. Why flesh things out with quality content that will keep people playing when you can just rush past it and sell them new stuff?

  20. #40
    Community Member Bilger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by era42 View Post
    Pinion is awesome bow for a melee toon. For a primary archer, Bow of Sinew is probably better. Not to mention, easier to get. And m. 14.
    http://ddowiki.com/page/Bow_of_Sinew
    http://ddowiki.com/page/Pinion

    Heres a link to both bows. Look at both again and tell me this with a straight face.

    Let's start with base damage

    +8 enh 2.5(2d6) Pinion
    +5 (1-8) Sinew

    Pinion wins easily

    seeker +10 Pinion
    seeker +8 Sinew

    Pinion again

    extra stuff
    wailing, alacrity 20% pinion
    overfocus, elasticity, stealth strike sinew

    Pinion IMO wins again faster attacking means more hits and wailing adds more damage and with base damage difference in bows Pinion wins again over the crit multi from elasticity.

    So in comparison as I have shown Pinion is by far the better dps bow for any char melee or ranged.

    I will give you one thing Sinew is easier to get because everyone seems to want a Pinion.
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