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  1. #1
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    Default U19 - Instigator

    Instigator

    12 Fighter/6 Monk/2 Paladin, Human, LG

    This build offers solid DPS, good saves, decent self-heals, good survivability.

    Stats

    (as a 34 pt)

    Str: 17 (+all level ups)
    Dex: 10
    Con: 17
    Int: 8
    Wis: 8
    Cha: 14

    For 32 point, easier on tomes, newer player friendly I would drop Con to 16 and raise Dex to 11. This would forgoe Epic Toughness and allow for Dodge with a +2 tome.

    For 28 point, as above with 32 point modifications I would drop Str to 16 and drop Cha to 13.

    For 36 point, I would raise Cha to 15.

    Skills

    *note this character has a +3 int tome, tho a +2 would reflect same outcome with LRing*

    Balance: 6 ranks
    Intim: 23 ranks
    Jump: 5 ranks
    Swim: 5 ranks
    Tumble: 2 ranks
    UMD: 11 ranks

    Feats

    *note, Feat placement can be very tricky. I didn't record the exact point I took what, but bear in mind what would count as a monk bonus feat, fighter bonus feat, and any pre-reqs. Also, this character has a +3 dex tome, which allows for Dodge to be taken. I will flesh out feat selection more refined at a later date*

    Magical Training
    Toughness
    Power Attack
    Dodge
    Stunning Blow
    THF
    ITHF
    GTHF
    Cleave
    Great Cleave
    WF: Slash
    WS: Slash
    GWF: Slash
    GWS: Slash
    IC: Slash
    Master Monk Stance
    Grand Master Monk Stance
    Force of Personality *Placeholder feat. Paladin active PL feat, Completionist, etc, would take this spot.

    Epic Feats

    *note this character has a +4 con tome to qualify for EToughness*

    Overwhelming Crit
    Epic Toughness
    Epic DR

    ED Feats

    Perfect THF (requires 1 primal maxed)
    Tactician (requires 1 martial maxed)

    Heroic Enhancements

    Human 12

    Damage Boost
    Str I
    Skill Boost
    Con I
    Action Surge: Str II
    Improved Recovery II

    Kensei 35

    Focus: Axes
    Spiritual Bond
    Strike with no Thought
    Power Surge
    Tactics III
    Weapon Specialization IV
    Keen Edge
    Improved Dodge III
    One with the Blade
    Haste Boost III
    Weapon Meditation I
    Shatering Strike I
    Deadly Strike I
    Str I

    Ninja Spy 11

    Ninja Training
    Ninja Training
    Shadow Veil
    Sneak Attack Training I
    Acrobatic III
    Agility III

    Shintao 11

    Bastion of Purity
    Reed in the Wind I
    Exemplar III
    Iron Skin III

    Knight of the Chalice 11

    Hunter of the Dead I
    Extra Turning III
    Extra Smite I
    Divine Might III

    Epic Destiny

    Legendary Dreadnought

    Tactics III
    Extra Action Boost III
    Improved Power Attack
    Momentum Swing III
    Lay Waste
    Critical Damage III
    Devastating Critical
    Headsman's Chop
    Advancing Blows
    Master's Blitz


    Epic Twists

    Standing with Stone
    Cocoon
    Bane of Undeath

    PRR

    15 - Planar Set
    15 - Earth Stance
    15 - Standing with Stone (Twist)
    15 - Iron Skin
    10 - Epic DR
    14 - Slotted Sheltering 14

    84 atm.

    If I can work in the new ring with Sheltering 24 on it, would be looking at 96 PRR.

    Dodge

    3 - Feat
    6 - Enhancements
    8 - Item
    5 - Monk?

    22 in Earth Stance
    Last edited by Braegan; 09-04-2013 at 04:50 PM.
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  2. #2
    Community Member mezzorco's Avatar
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    Default

    You should really consider taking Divine Might from Knight of the Chalice, given your high CHA.
    Why magical training? For Cocoon?
    I don't think force of personality is going to make a difference for you, you are probably going to have high wis anyway, for AC and shattering strike DC.

  3. #3
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mezzorco View Post
    You should really consider taking Divine Might from Knight of the Chalice, given your high CHA.
    Why magical training? For Cocoon?
    I don't think force of personality is going to make a difference for you, you are probably going to have high wis anyway, for AC and shattering strike DC.
    Magical training was taken for Cocoon. Force of Personality was kind of a filler feat, but is nice at the moment since it allows me to mostly ignore wis. I am welcome to hearing alternate feat selections.

    Divine Might was part of the original plan and will make it back in refined version. Working on twists to make it happen with this level split.
    Last edited by Braegan; 08-27-2013 at 08:55 PM.
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  4. #4
    Founder & Build Synthesis Battlehawke's Avatar
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    Default empower heal

    Quote Originally Posted by Braegan View Post
    Magical training was taken for Cocoon. Force of Personality was kind of a filler feat, but is nice at the moment since it allows me to mostly ignore wis. I am welcome to hearing alternate feat selections.

    Divine Might was part of the original plan and I did take it at first. However, it sat with zero charges that never replinished. I thought this to be WAI as a level 2 Paladin has no turns to fuel DM and re-allocated the points spent in that tree elsewhere.

    You may want to consider Empower Healing instead of FoP as it does give a significant boost to Caccon (It is the only Feat/Meta that affects Cacoon). It would add more to your Survivability.
    Last edited by Battlehawke; 08-26-2013 at 12:48 PM.
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Battlehawke View Post
    You may want to consider Empower Healing instead of FoP as it does give a significant boost to Caccon (It is the only Feat/Meta that affects Cacoon). It would add more to your Survivability.
    That is a fine feat and does add alot. I won't be able to select with current level split, unless there is something I am missing.
    Last edited by Braegan; 08-27-2013 at 08:54 PM.
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  6. #6
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    Default

    Added more to OP, some more details and did some formatting. Currently can't log into game much as I think I fried my video card, once I can get back in I will fill in more of the blanks such as projected Dodge, PRR, Feat Selections by level, Leveling order, etc.
    Last edited by Braegan; 08-27-2013 at 08:53 PM.
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  7. #7
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    Default

    Added in PRR and Dodge, also swapped some heroic enhancements around and changed twists. So far build is solid, just exploring trading some DPS for a bit more ability to soak damage. Still working on gear and will post when I have something more concrete. Any critique is welcome of course.
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    Default

    You may need 4 Paladin levels.

    I think the KOTC divine might version powered by turn undeads, which happens at level 4 for Paladins?
    Varz
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by emptysands View Post
    You may need 4 Paladin levels.

    I think the KOTC divine might version powered by turn undeads, which happens at level 4 for Paladins?
    u're right, dm only applies when u have turn undead as class feat (or bane of undeath twisted/taken if in US)

    everything that adds TU charges (clr pl, gear, etc) won't apply til u have it as class/ED feat
    psykopeta - hoarding pl, for the sake of hoarding, the day i become ubercompletionist will be because there isn't anything to delay it more - thelanis, where the gimps claim to be pros and noobs claim to be pros, no newbies allowed(unless they claim to be pros), we have enough drama w/o them. PS i'm not a pro, maybe if i reincarnate in RL...

  10. #10
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by emptysands View Post
    You may need 4 Paladin levels.

    I think the KOTC divine might version powered by turn undeads, which happens at level 4 for Paladins?
    You are correct KOTC DM is fueled by Turns. However, the US Tier 1 twist Bane of Undeath (which I have selected) grants you the Turn Undead feat.
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  11. #11
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    Default hard thoughts

    Braegan (or anyone else whose sure), If you have some time I would love to hear your thoughts on the following:

    1. I love your build but I really love Furyshot. What do you think and how do you think it would impact the build if you removed:
    Toughness, Dodge, GWS Slashing, Grand Master Monk, and Force of Personality
    ....and added:
    IC Ranged, WF Ranged, Bow Str, Manyshot, Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot, and Zen Archery (I could probably go w/o Zhen Archery)?
    Is what you are losing here worth the huge gain in DPS?

    2. I hear that Perfect TWF works on your main weapon (including THF). Would it be a build breaker to take the extra DPS from it instead of Tactician?

    3. Can Empower Healing be worked in at the loss of Epic Toughness?

    4. Obviously you would have to get Dex to 17 for Manyshot Could Lower Con to get there and/or get a bigger Tome). Zhen Archery would require a 13 Wis if it was taken.

    Thanks for your input....

    Battlehawke
    Last edited by Battlehawke; 09-09-2013 at 09:21 PM.
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  12. #12
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Battlehawke View Post
    Braegan, If you have some time I would love to hear your thoughts on the following:

    1. I love your build but I really love Furyshot. What do you think and how do you think it would impact the build if you removed:
    Toughness, Dodge, GWS Slashing, Grand Master Monk, and Force of Personality
    ....and added:
    IC Ranged, WF Ranged, Bow Str, Manyshot, Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot, and Zen Archery?
    Is what you are losing here worth the huge gain in DPS?

    2. I hear that Perfect TWF works on your main weapon (including THF). Would it be a build breaker to take the extra DPS from it instead of Tactician?

    3. Can Empower Healing be worked in at the loss of Epic Toughness?

    Thanks for your input....

    Battlehawke
    Hey Battlehawke,

    I'm always happy to discuss build options, so to answer your questions:

    1) Well you listed losing 5 feats to gain 7. If I could make that trade I would! To be honest I thought long and hard about adding a ranged component to the build, but I'll comment more further down.

    2) That is something to consider. I've read others using it and it working with THF, tho my initail thought was that it wouldn't. I would like to test further, but my gut tells me that without the 3x fighter PL and some of the gear that others are posting my Stunning Blow would suffer. And if given that choice between a reliable Stunning Blow and 5% Double Strike, I would personally take the reliable Stunning Blow. It has proven to be of extreme value dealing with Shadar Kai Assassins and Casters.

    3) I cannot take Empower Heal with this level split. I would need at least level 4 Paladin. 50 HP is a nice buffer, but I would gladly make that swap if I could, sadly it's not an option. A different class split could do that but would abandon Shadow Veil. In my experience 25% Incorp is greater of the two hence my sticking with this split.

    To further on the ranged component addition into this build. I think it's great. However, it's not something this character would be able to do without spreading itself too thin or getting lucky with tomes or spending bucks on the DDO Store. Cetus version of this split includes +5 tomes and is a completionist to make it work and even then to me looks spread really thin to get all those goals. As a 34 pt build with mostly +3 tomes it would spread my stats too thin for my liking. I would be able to squeeze it in, but after looking at the numbers and what sacrifices I would have to make, I preferred to make this character very strong in a couple of areas rather then mediocre in many. Not saying Cetus version is that, just saying what this toon having what it has to work with trying to do the same would be IMO.

    And to be perfectly honest, I really haven't found a time where I was really disapointed that I don't have a ranged component. This character is about in your face melee, with the ability to survive and self-heal through alot. If a mob is perched ranging me, I run past it. If it is in melee range, let them pray for protection because I am coming for 'em!

    Hope that answers what you were looking for. If I can help/elaborate more please let me know. And of course alternate ideas are welcome.

    P.S. I think for a player without the +5 tome, completionist background to get most out of this build would be to take Paladin PL as the active feat in place of Force of Personality. That would make for a solid melee 34 pt, easy tr, but very effective end game build.

    P.P.S. Edit after your edit

    Yes the stats would be one issue. I would have to lower some Str, Con, lose about 75~ HP. I imagine I would go 16, 14, 14, 8, 10, 16. Not terrible, but less for sure. And with those barebones I am curious as to how often I would land ranged attacks. The lose of the Dodge feat and being a pre-req for Enhancements to boost it would be a bigger loss while in melee IMO. And, since I melee mostly (even if I had a range component) having a decent Dodge value is very helpful. Again, to me it just feels spread too thin.
    Last edited by Braegan; 09-09-2013 at 09:45 PM.
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  13. #13
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    Default thanks

    Thanks for such a quick response! Doh! Not sure why I didn't write down all the feats. I had 7 for 7. Anyways you answered my question's well enough that I think it doesn't matter. I think when I solo I really enjoy Stunning Fist or Stunning Blow on a melee. However I don't solo very often so CC is not usually an issue. You certainly do make sense and again I appreciate your response. I've been been considering what to do with an old 36 point (with PL Rogue, Ftr and Paladin) that is currently 18/2 Pal/Ftr (Darkstar's Dark Knight build). He is level 25 and well geared. Ill keep building in my head for a few more weeks but want to use the +20 on him. I'm primarily looking for THF DPS with high Survivability and Furyshot. I have struggled with your and Cetus' builds and attempting my own deviant/hybrid of the two. I like the 12/6/2 split and will keep pushing forward. I think his has great DPS and yours has greater Survivability and CC. Both are great builds. Thanks again.
    Last edited by Battlehawke; 09-09-2013 at 11:27 PM.
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    Default curious

    Just curious. Have you ever or have a toon with Fury shot? The ability to do 30,000 points of damage in 15 seconds is pretty intensive. Again, I like your build, you just seem a bit dismissive of Furyshot.
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    Default gear

    Hello again. I noticed your post on your FVS Melee Healer. I would love to see your current gear set up on this one before you move on. I assume the basics are Cleaver and Black Dragon Robes? Maybe post a screen shot of the character sheet too?

    Thanks again
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Battlehawke View Post
    Just curious. Have you ever or have a toon with Fury shot? The ability to do 30,000 points of damage in 15 seconds is pretty intensive. Again, I like your build, you just seem a bit dismissive of Furyshot.
    Yes, Instigator-1 on Thelanis is currently level 24 Helves variant in Fury. It is alot of fun and alot of damage. My original plan when I heard about the enhancement pass and getting the lr +20 was to include a manyshot component to this character as well. And then I heard about being centered with whatever weapon you chose and well this build split came to mind.

    So I don't mean to sound dismissive of Furyshot. I think it would be great to be able to work it in, and to be honest am still mulling it over as to how I would be able to do it. The biggest goal I had in mind when redesigning this guy was to retain solid DPS (which he was previously as a pure 20 fighter) but to work on his defense. As a pure fighter saves were terrible, without gear swaps/buffs failing Will saves from a kobold shaman from water works at cap wasn't fun. So my biggest goal was to bolster saves, defense, and self-healing, the range component took a back burner because to do it right eats up alot of feats and does stress the initial stat allocation with the tomes I have to work with. But, it's not something I have completely given up on and maybe something I will be able to work in at some point.
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Battlehawke View Post
    Hello again. I noticed your post on your FVS Melee Healer. I would love to see your current gear set up on this one before you move on. I assume the basics are Cleaver and Black Dragon Robes? Maybe post a screen shot of the character sheet too?

    Thanks again
    Battlehawke
    Aloha!

    Well, even tho I am also working on False and updating that thread, I will continue to update this one as well.

    Current gear was really solid through EGH, now not so much. I need to work tweak a few things but what I am currently running on him:

    Helm) Black Dragon, +8 Str, False Life (Green), +7 Cha (Colorless)
    Neck) E Hyena Claw, +7 Con, Vitality +20, Intim +15, +35 Fire Resist (Yellow)
    Trinket) Prowess, +3 Ins Con
    Cloak) GS Min II, Heavy Fort, +45 HP
    Belt) Ravager
    Ring) Ravager, +20% Heal Amp
    Ring) Dun Robar, +2 Ins Str/Stunning 10/Dodge 8%
    Gloves) Nether Grasps, +2 Profane Str, Seeker 8
    Boots) Falling Shadow, +7 Dex, +2 Ins Dex, Striding 30%
    Bracers) Twisting Shade, Exception Seeker 4?, Blurry, Resistance 6
    Chest) Flawless Black Robes, +14 PRR Slotted
    Goggles) Tharnes', SA 5, True Seeing
    Weapon) Cleaver, fully upgraded, bypass Good DR Slotted

    Deffinately room for improvement now that some random loot is better then alot else that's out there. Some initial thoughts were

    - lose Ravager Set, Replace ring with Consuming Darkness, Replace Belt with +Con of ?
    - lose Nether Grasps, Replace with Backstabber's
    - lose Tharnes, Replace with Deadly of Resistance
    - lose Falling Shadow, Replace with Fortified 120% of False Life
    - change GS HP item into a Smoke II HP
    - lose Twisting Shade, Replace with Conv of Superior Parrying
    - lose Hyena Claw with a higher +Cha, Stolen Necklace maybe a good fit

    So yes, lots to do. These changes are not in stone and there is some other items I am considering, but that's my initial plan of where to go from where I am now. Hopefully that helps and I'll try and post a screenie when I am able.
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    Default hey

    Nevermind.
    Last edited by Battlehawke; 09-11-2013 at 08:20 PM.
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    Hey folks,

    Just to update a bit. I've decided that adding a range component to the build would be worth the sacrifices. At least as much to LR and give it a go for a bit. I'll leave the OP as is, for those that may not want a range component.

    The changes made were influenced alot by Cetus's post and were altered to fit a 34 pter with mostly +3 tomes. Some additional changes were made to beef up PRR a bit in the form of some enhancement differences as well as twists. I will come back and edit in the breakdown tomorrow.
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  20. #20
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    Sorry in advance for necroticizing this thread.

    So how about this progression:

    1 mnk, 2-3 ftr, 4 mnk, 5-6 ftr, 7-8 mnk, 9-12 ftr, 13-14mnk, 15-18 ftr, 19-20 pal

    1: Magical training
    1h: Force of Personality/Paladin PL
    1m: Power attack
    2f: cleave
    3: toughness (swap out?)
    3f: stunning blow
    4m: thf
    6: great cleave (4ftr/2 mnk)
    6f: wf:s
    7: monk path
    9: improved crit (5 ftr/4 mnk)
    10f: ws:s
    12: ithf > centering (switch to greataxe, needs 8 ftr) (8 ftr/4 mnk)
    12f: gwf:s (needs 8 ftr)
    14m: Dodge (needs +3 dex tome)
    15: Master of Forms (req Monk 6)
    16f: GWS:S (12 ftr/4 mnk)
    18: Grandmaster of Forms
    18f: gthf
    19-20 P
    21: Overwhelming Crit
    24: Epic Toughness
    26E: Perfect THF
    27: Epic DR
    28E: Tactician

    Or is this not even worth it without including ranged? I'm planning this for my first TR from 15 pal/3 rog/2 ftr (Ellis's build).

    Quote Originally Posted by Braegan View Post
    Hey folks,

    Just to update a bit. I've decided that adding a range component to the build would be worth the sacrifices. At least as much to LR and give it a go for a bit. I'll leave the OP as is, for those that may not want a range component.

    The changes made were influenced alot by Cetus's post and were altered to fit a 34 pter with mostly +3 tomes. Some additional changes were made to beef up PRR a bit in the form of some enhancement differences as well as twists. I will come back and edit in the breakdown tomorrow.

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