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  1. #1
    Community Member AtomicMew's Avatar
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    Default U19 shiradi WF sorc build primer - more powerfuller than ever

    I had several people ask me how to remake their shiradi sorc for U19. While I haven't fleshed out all the gear, it's already more than clear that shiradi sorc is better than ever, even at level 25. I figure I'd start this thread to get the discussion rolling already.

    There are basically three possible level splits:

    18 sorc/2 paladin
    18 sorc/2 monk
    18 sorc/2 FvS

    18 sorc is absolutely required for wings and meteor swarm. If you're thinking about splashing more, you're probably better off with a different class. Paladin and monk splashes are defensive splashes, with the edge going to paladin in my opinion. FvS is the offensive splash, and ultimately better if you usually play in groups.

    Enhancements - paladin version
    Warforged (2 AP):
    Core: Tier 1 (1 AP)
    Tier 1: Inscribed armor (1 AP)

    Air Savant (40 AP):
    Core: Tier 5 (5 AP)
    Tier 1: Electrocution (3 AP), Spell Critical (2 AP)
    Tier 2: Efficient Maximize (6 AP), Spell Critical (2 AP)
    Tier 3: Efficient Empower (6 AP), Spell Critical (2 AP), Charisma (2 AP)
    Tier 4: Feather Falling (2 AP), Spell Critical (2 AP)
    Tier 5: Wind Dance (2 AP), Awaken Elemental Weakness (2 AP), Evocation Focus (2 AP), Elemental Diversification: Force (2 AP)

    Fire Savant (34 AP):
    Core: Tier 5 (5 AP)
    Tier 1: Conflagration (3 AP), Spell Critical (2 AP), One with the inferno (3 AP)
    Tier 2: Efficient Quicken (6 AP), Spell Critical (2 AP), Fanning the Flames (3 AP), Pierce Fire Resistance (6 AP)
    Tier 3: Spell Critical (2 AP)
    Tier 4: Spell Critical (2 AP)

    4 AP free - level off charisma score, try to put points into fire instead of air as fire is the DPS savant.

    Enhancements are generally geared towards maximum DPS and SP efficiency. The obvious savant choices are air and fire due to superior procs. Water and earth are just flat out bad, and I can't imagine anyone seriously considering them over air and fire. This is a big change over pre-expansion, when all savants were basically competitive. Now, you really only have one choice.

    Fanning the flames is better than it appears, since it can proc on each damage number in scorching ray and meteor swarm.

    Another one of the big changes from pre-expansion is being able to not take SLAs. This is great, since all tier 1 and probably all tier 2 SLAs are basically never worth using for a shiradi, so you can save a ton of AP to put them somewhere else. On the other hand, draconic's will probably rely on them quite heavily.

    Enhancements - FvS version
    Warforged (2 AP):
    Core: Tier 1 (1 AP)
    Tier 1: Inscribed armor (1 AP)

    Angel of Vengeance (17 AP)
    Core: Tier 1 (1 AP)
    Tier 1: Scourge (3 AP), Smiting (2 AP)
    Tier 2: Just Rewards (3 AP), Smiting (2 AP), Efficient Quicken (6 AP)

    Air Savant (40 AP):
    Core: Tier 5 (5 AP)
    Tier 1: Electrocution (3 AP), Spell Critical (2 AP)
    Tier 2: Efficient Maximize (6 AP), Spell Critical (2 AP)
    Tier 3: Efficient Empower (6 AP), Spell Critical (2 AP), Charisma (2 AP)
    Tier 4: Feather Falling (2 AP), Spell Critical (2 AP)
    Tier 5: Wind Dance (2 AP), Awaken Elemental Weakness (2 AP), Evocation Focus (2 AP), Elemental Diversification: Force (2 AP)

    Fire Savant (21 AP):
    Core: Tier 4 (4 AP)
    Tier 1: Conflagration (3 AP), Spell Critical (2 AP), One with the inferno (2 AP)
    Tier 2: Spell Critical (2 AP), Pierce Fire Resistance (4 AP)
    Tier 3: Spell Critical (2 AP), Charisma (2 AP)

    With FvS splash, the goal is to move as much enhancements as possible to Angel of Vengeance, since you get more spellpower per point and honestly the enhancements are just flat out better. You're getting a ton more spellpower thanks to scourge and some extra force crits that you wouldn't have otherwise. With Just Rewards, you're adding a good amount of spell points so you can easily drop fanning the flames too.

    Offensive casting:

    Single Target:
    Magic Missile
    Scorching Ray (Force Missiles vs. fire immunes)
    Meteor Swarm
    Lightning bolt (bosses only)
    DoTs

    AoE:
    Meteor Swarm
    Chain Missiles
    Energy Burst
    Primal Scream
    Chain Lightning (optional)

    Utility:
    Ice Storm
    Solid Fog

    Generally speaking, you'll be using a combination of single target and AoE for 99% of skirmishes, so it's not essential to have a full rotation of AoE spells. (By full rotation, I mean being able to chain spells indefinitely.) On the other hand, all boss fights require sustained single target DPS, so it's essential to have a full rotation with no downtime. Luckily, you can rotate between MM and Scorching Ray alone. Meteor Swarm is also the best single target DPS spell, however it's costly, so use sparingly as single target DPS.

    Lightning bolt should be used only vs bosses. Trash mobs don't survive long enough for conduction to add significant DPS.

  2. #2
    Community Member Sokól's Avatar
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    Thank you for opening my eyes to that fvs splash, have a 3rd life sorc at level 17, want to do something new with him.
    Argonnessen: Hilmir - Purkilius - Jinu - Vignir @ Blood Assassin´s

  3. #3
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    This class is hot for sure but I'm hesitant to get away from the missile spam and the 60+ saves. I'm still ice based. Can you elaborate on why you like fire? I'm also at work so limited on ways to research what these fire abilities do.

    And what wings are you talking about? My twists are of course energy burst, the fvs sp ed and the +6 reflex save ed from draconic.

    Edit: ooo burning.
    Last edited by Armus; 08-22-2013 at 09:02 AM.

  4. #4
    Community Member Sokól's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Armus View Post
    This class is hot for sure but I'm hesitant to get away from the missile spam and the 60+ saves. I'm still ice based. Can you elaborate on why you like fire? I'm also at work so limited on ways to research what these fire abilities do.

    And what wings are you talking about? My twists are of course energy burst, the fvs sp ed and the +6 reflex save ed from draconic.
    I think I can answer these 2:

    Fire because of meteor swarm, fireball and scorch sla´s and other aoe spells, and fire works well in epic gianthold and new content.

    Wind Dance it works like fvs wings a tier 5 ability in air savant.
    Argonnessen: Hilmir - Purkilius - Jinu - Vignir @ Blood Assassin´s

  5. #5
    Community Member PsychoJester's Avatar
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    It's ok for TRing a toon, but for a brand new one what do you think of the pally splash on a bladeforged iconic?

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    Community Member Sokól's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoJester View Post
    It's ok for TRing a toon, but for a brand new one what do you think of the pally splash on a bladeforged iconic?
    That is really mandatory as they have to start with at least 1 level of Paladin.
    Argonnessen: Hilmir - Purkilius - Jinu - Vignir @ Blood Assassin´s

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    So now this build is moving away from spamming missiles to speaking multi hit elemental spells that proc their own damage? And we can achieve the same number of hits per second (so we have the same shiradi proc rate)? What about sp usage?

  8. #8
    Hero thesnoman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Armus View Post
    So now this build is moving away from spamming missiles to speaking multi hit elemental spells that proc their own damage? And we can achieve the same number of hits per second (so we have the same shiradi proc rate)? What about sp usage?

    Been playing with my Shiradi Sorc a lot this week as I've put my Jugg on the back burner until I figure out exactly how I'm changing his build...possibly a TR, but hopefully not yet.

    Here's my thoughts:

    I still like spamming MM/CM for MoBs and MM/FM for bosses - I've played with this idea of using Meteor Swarm as a big damage spell, but I'm not convinced that it's worth the SP cost except for where you KNOW a group of baddies if just mulling about waiting to be aggro'd. (Reflex saves are stupid high in the new content)

    I'm also playing with twisting back in the tier 4 Magister ability for Enchant cool-downs and twisting in the Tier 4 FoTW Sense Weakness - these are at the loss of Tier 4 Draconic Burst, but like I mentioned above - reflex saves are stupid high in the new content, so Burst is practically worthless against many EE baddies.

    I'm still playing with my final iteration of Melkorr for this Updats, but stay tuned - he's more survivable now and is getting the same types of damage (maybe a bit higher) as he was prior to U19.
    "Melkorr (Completionist "Toaster of Vengeance") ~ Angrond (TWF Jugg) ~ Telchacar ~ Celebrimor (Bank) ~ Manados
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  9. #9
    Community Member AtomicMew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoJester View Post
    It's ok for TRing a toon, but for a brand new one what do you think of the pally splash on a bladeforged iconic?
    It'll work out great. Offensively, you're only missing out on past life wizard (high damage missiles), +3 evoc from sorcerer and completionist. Nothing essential.

    So now this build is moving away from spamming missiles to speaking multi hit elemental spells that proc their own damage? And we can achieve the same number of hits per second (so we have the same shiradi proc rate)? What about sp usage?
    With fanning the flames proccing all the time on scorching ray, SP efficiency is better than it was before. FvS splash is even better. You're doing more DPS for less SP usage now.

    I still like spamming MM/CM for MoBs and MM/FM for bosses - I've played with this idea of using Meteor Swarm as a big damage spell, but I'm not convinced that it's worth the SP cost except for where you KNOW a group of baddies if just mulling about waiting to be aggro'd. (Reflex saves are stupid high in the new content)
    Scorching ray is better than force missiles, especially with the proc. It may have even been better before the update, though I never did the math. The base damage is quite a bit higher than force missiles.

    I definitely agree with you on the other twist possibilites, those are all strong options.

  10. #10
    Hero thesnoman's Avatar
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    RE: Fanning the flames

    I haven't yet played with scorching ray - I was aware that fanning the flames was supposed to proc, but didn't know it was really that often. If it's that often, I'll have to play with it...just another power boost IMO if it is WAI. If not, it'll be fun to play with for the time being. (My bet is that it's got a big, giant nerf bat in it's future if it's as powerful as you say...similar to they way Shiradi lost perma-dots)
    "Melkorr (Completionist "Toaster of Vengeance") ~ Angrond (TWF Jugg) ~ Telchacar ~ Celebrimor (Bank) ~ Manados
    Thelanis

    Officer of The Innfellows

  11. #11
    Community Member AtomicMew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thesnoman View Post
    RE: Fanning the flames

    I haven't yet played with scorching ray - I was aware that fanning the flames was supposed to proc, but didn't know it was really that often. If it's that often, I'll have to play with it...just another power boost IMO if it is WAI. If not, it'll be fun to play with for the time being. (My bet is that it's got a big, giant nerf bat in it's future if it's as powerful as you say...similar to they way Shiradi lost perma-dots)
    I don't think it's really that powerful. Just Rewards from AoV is flat out better. With scorching ray, it is limited to one proc per spell, but has multiple chances to proc. So it's basically making a 8 SP spell into a ~5-6 SP spell, which is nice but not overpowered.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by AtomicMew View Post
    Another one of the big changes from pre-expansion is being able to not take SLAs. This is great, since all tier 1 and probably all tier 2 SLAs are basically never worth using for a shiradi, so you can save a ton of AP to put them somewhere else. On the other hand, draconic's will probably rely on them quite heavily.
    The SLAs aren't an optimal choice at the end game, but they are great at low/mid levels.

  13. #13
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    Default A 18 Sorc/2 FVS lvl guide

    I suck at leveling, is there an order for lvl'ing a 18sor/2 fvs ? Do i want fvs as soon as possible or at certain lvls or does it not matter?

  14. #14
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    I think there are tons of valid level options, but here are some things to consider.

    FVS 1 offers a significant spell power increase.
    FVS 2 offers mana procs.

    Early on, the sorc levels will bump up your damage more than spell power.

    If you are good with burning hands/scorch, Sorc 4 -> FVS 1 is a good progression.
    If you really like fireball, Sorc 6 -> FVS 1 might work better.
    If you are a firewall fan, Sorc 8 -> FVS 1

    If you have good twink gear, the mana procs aren't as important till late heroic levels or epic.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gavndad View Post
    I suck at leveling, is there an order for lvl'ing a 18sor/2 fvs ? Do i want fvs as soon as possible or at certain lvls or does it not matter?
    You'll want Firewall asap. Then you'll want Delayed Blast Fireball as soon as possible after that. Therefore I suggest you take the first 14 levels in Sorc.

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    hi plz how much you lose on saves when you go fvs and no paly

  17. #17
    Community Member AtomicMew's Avatar
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    Paladin saves are equal to charisma modifier, so roughly ~15-20 at end game.

  18. #18
    I <3 DDO wey4lust's Avatar
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    Hi

    After u19 hit live i came up with this build

    https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...ssile-spammer-)

    It take best from sorc/fvs/paladin, i tried all 18/2 splashes as well as 12/6/2 but i found this one optimal for my play style (need 2 lvl 6 arcane spells), so far i had no problem to solo any of new ees, only what goes up was painfull but i did it 6 man scaling and was only dps untill end boss (than 2 dps joined for completion).
    Godscraft / Godcraft / Millusia / Judet / Vvi - Orien

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  19. #19
    Hero
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    Quote Originally Posted by AtomicMew View Post
    There are basically three possible level splits:

    18 sorc/2 paladin
    18 sorc/2 monk
    18 sorc/2 FvS
    Which version do you play, and why did you choose that split over the others?
    U19 Kensei: Centered Cleaver | TR Junkie Leveling Framework

    ~Ying~ (10 lives), ~Hamada~(9 lives), ~Vadanken~ (6 lives), ~Kobeyashi~ (10 lives)
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  20. #20
    Community Member Singular's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AtomicMew View Post
    18 sorc is absolutely required for wings and meteor swarm.

    ...

    Another one of the big changes from pre-expansion is being able to not take SLAs. This is great, since all tier 1 and probably all tier 2 SLAs are basically never worth using for a shiradi, so you can save a ton of AP to put them somewhere else. On the other hand, draconic's will probably rely on them quite heavily.
    Excellent post - thank you!

    I have two comments on the points above:

    1. I think you can get wings at level 12 now. Certainly by level 17. I'll know if it's lvl 12 in the next couple of days, but it's telling me that's my limitation right now.

    2. I have an end-game Shiradi Sorc who spams MM, sonic blast and electric loop, with the latter two being very effective CC spells. Nerve poison on the MM is, too, but sonic blast and electric loop CC groups of baddies rather than just one. I find this very useful.

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