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  1. #1
    Community Member sephiroth1084's Avatar
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    Default So what are some of the stronger combinations now for an archer?

    I haven't played DDO since September. Not sure I really want to come back, particularly since the enhancement pass killed my oldest and favorite character (my DoS paladin), but I am curious about what I can do now with my Arcane Archer. I've been following along with everything that has transpired over the last year, but without an updated character planner, I'm having a hard time assessing all the new options.

    My guy is currently a half-elf 12 monk/6 ranger/2 arti AA. I think I'd prefer to go all-in on Deepwood Sniper with some AA (so probably 11-14 levels of ranger), enough monk for 10K Stars (6 levels probably). Not sure what I'd do with the remaining levels if any, or whether helf is still a decent choice here.

    From what I can tell, the arti levels are now almost useless, since I lose W&S Mastery, but access to trap skills, UMD as a class skill, the slight boost to scrolls from arti class levels, Enchant Weapon, and free Rapid Reload aren't terrible, they just seem much weaker than the stuff I could be getting with a 2-level splash of a class with more attractive enhancements...maybe. I don't know what I can afford, ultimately.

    Looking at the half-elf, I'm feeling rather underwhelmed, as the rogue dilettante looks weaker than it used to, although the monk one looks decent, since monk no longer offers affordable Healing Amp enhancements as far as I can tell. Would human be better? Or pure elf? Is half-elf just a stronger elf? I didn't notice if they get Grace, which seems like it could be worth it. It would be a toss-up between investing in Str to get Overwhelming Critical, and skipping Combat Archery (that's still broken, isn't it?) and investing the rest into Wis (and relying on 11+ ranger levels taking care of the Dex requirements on the archery feats), or going all Wis and Dex, affording Combat Archery, and having some better defenses along with good damage thanks to Grace. What about halfing?

    I couldn't find the info on the new monk stance feats: what are the prereqs on those? Would 6 monk be enough to pick up third-tier stances? What monk enhancements end up being really worth taking? Does the Ninja Spy's Dex to damage with piercing weapons work with bows? Does it override Bow Strength if your Str is higher?

    Is Deepwood strong enough to be the main focus, as far as enhancements go? Is AA stronger? Is a 12 ranger/6 monk/2 something split a decent plan? What do you think the other 2 levels should be? Kensei looks okay, but not amazing. Rogue looks good, but not spectacular (a plus is that it would maintain my ability to deal with traps, which I like, as well as keeping UMD as a class skill). Do you think 2 arti is still worthwhile at all? Anything else seem like a strong option here?
    Useful links: A Guide to Using a Gamepad w/ DDO / All Caster Shroud, Hard Shroud, VoD, ToD Einhander, Elochka, Ferrumrym, Ferrumdermis, Ferrumshot, Ferrumblood, Ferrumender, Ferrumshadow, Ferrumschtik All proud officers of The Loreseekers. Except Bruucelee, he's a Sentinel!

  2. #2
    Community Member Emizand's Avatar
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    Only advice i can give is log in. I found the enhancements confusing when read on wiki, but when i logged in and looked became a lot easier to understand. You can swap enhancements anywhere now. The pop up menu is really good and you can look and play with them before accepting. Then you can settle on your enhancements, select them and try them. Then you can use your heart of wood to tr.

    Hope that helps a little.

    Emi

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emizand View Post
    Then you can use your heart of wood to tr.
    LR, you mean? At least I got Lesser +20s for my toons, not a True heart.

    Anyway, you can (probably) use those to fix your toons once you figure out how you'll want them now. Still have the restriction of only having levels from 3 heroic classes at a time though, so swapping arti to rogue may be a bit of a problem, given that you can't add rogue to your three until you've swapped out all of arti...
    Last edited by mna; 08-26-2013 at 08:35 AM.
    No longer completely f2p as of November 2014. Father of 3 more DDO players so far (I do have more children than that).

  4. #4
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sephiroth1084 View Post
    From what I can tell, the arti levels are now almost useless, since I lose W&S Mastery
    Unless the wiki is wrong, W&S Mastery is a T1 Arcanotechnician ability. If anything, arty splash is more useful, because you can max out W&SM for 7(?) APs; before you could only take W&SM I w/arty 2.
    Looking at the half-elf, I'm feeling rather underwhelmed, as the rogue dilettante looks weaker than it used to
    How so? AFAICT, you can still get +3D6 SA outta rog dilly, but now you also pick up a to-hit bonus and can add Tanglefoot (which is probably useless if not INT-based, but is optional). I suppose you can see it as a downside that you have to spend 17 APs in HE tree to max out dilly; but between Versatility boosts, stat bonuses, and heal amp, there ought to be enough useful things to spend those other APs on.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    Unless the wiki is wrong, W&S Mastery is a T1 Arcanotechnician ability. If anything, arty splash is more useful, because you can max out W&SM for 7(?) APs; before you could only take W&SM I w/arty 2.
    It's available at tier 1, and the cost is 1 per rank, making it a total investment of 4 APs for +75% scroll efficiency. I think it's the same for cleric as well.
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  6. #6
    Community Member sephiroth1084's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emizand View Post
    Only advice i can give is log in. I found the enhancements confusing when read on wiki, but when i logged in and looked became a lot easier to understand. You can swap enhancements anywhere now. The pop up menu is really good and you can look and play with them before accepting. Then you can settle on your enhancements, select them and try them. Then you can use your heart of wood to tr.

    Hope that helps a little.

    Emi
    This is what I did, after a few hours updating the game, then fighting with crashes.

    The enhancements looked pretty good. Went to tier 5 in Deepwood, picked up a chunk of AA, a little Ninja Spy (enough for Shadow Fade), and W&S Mastery in artificer to tier 3.

    Looks pretty good, but damn are there a lot of clickies now! Feels like half the DWS tree is active abilities. And I don't know how I feel about staying 12 monk/6 ranger given that I'm hardly using any monk enhancements. Switching to 12 ranger/6 monk loses Improved Evasion, 2x Fast Movement and Abundant Step, but picks up 4th level ranger spells (FoM), another Favored Enemy, and Improved Precise Shot, removing any need for Dex (assuming Combat Archery is still broken). Then I'd need to drop a feat somewhere for Master of Styles to get to Earth III (+1 crit multiplier), although I'm less thrilled with the slowdown from Earth without the extra Fast Movement and Abundant Step. Also, I don't know that the class shift would mean much by way of enhancements, since I've got them all allocated right now in about the same way I would with the different split, so that may all be fairly pointless anyway.
    Useful links: A Guide to Using a Gamepad w/ DDO / All Caster Shroud, Hard Shroud, VoD, ToD Einhander, Elochka, Ferrumrym, Ferrumdermis, Ferrumshot, Ferrumblood, Ferrumender, Ferrumshadow, Ferrumschtik All proud officers of The Loreseekers. Except Bruucelee, he's a Sentinel!

  7. #7
    Community Member 96th_Malice's Avatar
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    Well ... I started the process of re building 18 toons this AM.

    I started with the pure ranger as I didn't want to get overwhelmed with choices off of the hop. This toon at lvl 23 actually came out quite nice. I chose to use grace outta the racial tree and for sure she is a better toon than before.

    I went off to Katnyss next, a 16 ranger / 2 fighter / 2 monk .... I decided to use str as my damage and this toon worked out pretty close to the same as before.

    Then Alexzia my bard 16 / 2 fighter / 2 ranger turned out better as a spell singer but the AA portion of the toon is not as strong. Mainly because slayers are now gone.

    Cassiee was next on the drawing board being a kensaii 3 arcane archer. 18 fighter / 1 monk / 1 Druid. This toon pre U19 was without a doubt my best toon. Adrenaline and FoTW were a big part of this. I have not been able to unlock the AA tree on this rebuild yet .... Although it looks like this issue has been solved for me.

    I still have a lot of toons to do ( one of them being a 10k stars build .... Another being an old school bowbarian. ) .... Some for sure are going to take advantage of the +20 heart of wood

    There are still a lot of viable archer options, I find its just a different mindset of how to achieve things now.

    One thing for sure .... Remember when rolling up an AA, that you no longer need the mental toughness feat.
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  8. #8
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    One thing that needs to be mentioned in regard to Monkcher builds using Shadow Veil (T3 Core Ninja). Buying this means buying the T2 Core Ninja which allows you to use Dex for Damage on piercing and slashing weapons. Piercing does mean bows. Furthermore, DEX overrides STR from Bow Strength.

    I LRed a bank mule I had and recreated him with all the relevant feats: Bow Strength and Zen Archery being the ones relevant to this test.
    Stats at L8 were STR 23 and DEX 12. He had a +2 STR tome and +1 DEX tome on him.
    Without purchasing any enhancements I went to the test dummy and did a few shots from a distance with a longbow. As expected, the damage ranged from 7-14. Spent AP to get the T2 Ninja core. The "Dexterity to Damage" showed up on the tooltip for the bow, and testing on the dummy showed that damage had been reduced to the 2-9 range.

    So at this point, any Monkcher build using Shadow Veil can forget about bumping strength past the 23 required for Overwhelming Crit.

  9. #9
    Community Member 96th_Malice's Avatar
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    I've yet to build a toon that uses overwhelming critical .... Partially because of the pre req feats I need to achieve this of which none help me with bow damage.

    I've got a couple toons that virtually serve no purpose since U19 ..... Maybe I'll try a build with it
    " Elize Ryd - Officer @ Band of Gypsys "


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  10. #10
    Community Member sephiroth1084's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alfhild View Post
    One thing that needs to be mentioned in regard to Monkcher builds using Shadow Veil (T3 Core Ninja). Buying this means buying the T2 Core Ninja which allows you to use Dex for Damage on piercing and slashing weapons. Piercing does mean bows. Furthermore, DEX overrides STR from Bow Strength.

    I LRed a bank mule I had and recreated him with all the relevant feats: Bow Strength and Zen Archery being the ones relevant to this test.
    Stats at L8 were STR 23 and DEX 12. He had a +2 STR tome and +1 DEX tome on him.
    Without purchasing any enhancements I went to the test dummy and did a few shots from a distance with a longbow. As expected, the damage ranged from 7-14. Spent AP to get the T2 Ninja core. The "Dexterity to Damage" showed up on the tooltip for the bow, and testing on the dummy showed that damage had been reduced to the 2-9 range.

    So at this point, any Monkcher build using Shadow Veil can forget about bumping strength past the 23 required for Overwhelming Crit.
    That's disappointing.

    On the plus side, apparently Combat Archery is working, so i could LR to dump Str entirely (I don't have OC anyway--couldn't decide on stuff to drop for the junk feat prerequisites).

    Str 8
    Dex 16
    Con 14
    Int 12
    Wis 18
    Cha 8

    The only real problem I see with this is the risk of becoming helpless to a Waves of Exhaustion.
    Useful links: A Guide to Using a Gamepad w/ DDO / All Caster Shroud, Hard Shroud, VoD, ToD Einhander, Elochka, Ferrumrym, Ferrumdermis, Ferrumshot, Ferrumblood, Ferrumender, Ferrumshadow, Ferrumschtik All proud officers of The Loreseekers. Except Bruucelee, he's a Sentinel!

  11. #11
    Community Member Emizand's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sephiroth1084 View Post
    The only real problem I see with this is the risk of becoming helpless to a Waves of Exhaustion.
    Think I saw an item or feat that gave immunity to WoE, or maybe I had too many mushrooms with my breakfast. Can someone confirm or deny this rumour I may, or may not, have started.

    At least it looks like you are staying Seph and thats the main thing.

    Emi

  12. #12
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    I logged in last night as well. Tried to put something together for 12 Monk/6 Ranger/2 Arti. Heard about the DEX issue with Ninja spy and decided to wait.

    All my other toons are a little broken as well. 9 Monk/9 Druid/2 Fighter - unsure if it abilities work as they did before, plus I need to spend a feat rather than AP to get a higher monk stance now. 12 Fighter/6 Arti/2 Ranger, part time SD - all the SD stuff seems somewhat useless now for part-time shield builds.

    It may pay to wait for the bugs to be ironed out. If the follow the same process with loot that they have with this update. Why both grinding now with a broken build. Grind loot in a few months, when the loot is better (again) and the builds are fixed.
    Varz
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emizand View Post
    Think I saw an item or feat that gave immunity to WoE, or maybe I had too many mushrooms with my breakfast. Can someone confirm or deny this rumour I may, or may not, have started.

    Emi
    You're probably thinking about High Spirits (Bard enhancements, ML4, 1AP per tier)

    T1: +4 Positive Spell Power, Immune to crushing despair, waves of fatigue, waves of exhaustion
    T2: +8 Positive Spell Power, Immune to crushing despair, waves of fatigue, waves of exhaustion and sleep
    T3: +12 Positive Spell Power, Immune to crushing despair, waves of fatigue, waves of exhaustion, sleep and fatigue

  14. #14
    Community Member Emizand's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhaphael View Post
    You're probably thinking about High Spirits (Bard enhancements, ML4, 1AP per tier)

    T1: +4 Positive Spell Power, Immune to crushing despair, waves of fatigue, waves of exhaustion
    T2: +8 Positive Spell Power, Immune to crushing despair, waves of fatigue, waves of exhaustion and sleep
    T3: +12 Positive Spell Power, Immune to crushing despair, waves of fatigue, waves of exhaustion, sleep and fatigue
    Thats the very fella, thank you!

    Not much good on a monk build though. Sorry Seph.

  15. #15
    Community Member sephiroth1084's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emizand View Post

    At least it looks like you are staying Seph and thats the main thing.

    Emi
    Heh, thanks, Emi. We'll see.

    It's good to see everyone I've missed for a year, and to play around with new build options, even if I'm loath to even load my paladin for fear of seeing just how badly they ****ed him up. Pure builds really shouldn't have gotten worse with an update like this--it should have strengthened some pure builds, and forced new choices with multi-classing. In some cases the update did that, but in many it screwed the single-classed characters (paladin and fighter, especially).

    Ferrumshot definitely feels more interesting than he did, and a little stronger, but I'm still trying to feel out how to use all of the active attacks. Simply cycling them seems wasteful with their long cooldowns and niche effects. Plus, I jumped into Fury of the Wild on him for the first time, and it's tough getting used to when to spend Adrenaline, and in what order I should activate everything.
    Useful links: A Guide to Using a Gamepad w/ DDO / All Caster Shroud, Hard Shroud, VoD, ToD Einhander, Elochka, Ferrumrym, Ferrumdermis, Ferrumshot, Ferrumblood, Ferrumender, Ferrumshadow, Ferrumschtik All proud officers of The Loreseekers. Except Bruucelee, he's a Sentinel!

  16. #16
    Community Member sephiroth1084's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by emptysands View Post
    I logged in last night as well. Tried to put something together for 12 Monk/6 Ranger/2 Arti. Heard about the DEX issue with Ninja spy and decided to wait.

    All my other toons are a little broken as well. 9 Monk/9 Druid/2 Fighter - unsure if it abilities work as they did before, plus I need to spend a feat rather than AP to get a higher monk stance now. 12 Fighter/6 Arti/2 Ranger, part time SD - all the SD stuff seems somewhat useless now for part-time shield builds.

    It may pay to wait for the bugs to be ironed out. If the follow the same process with loot that they have with this update. Why both grinding now with a broken build. Grind loot in a few months, when the loot is better (again) and the builds are fixed.
    What's a gimp to do?

    My Str and Dex are close enough on my archer that I can live with the bug for the time being. I'm still getting more damage per shot than I was previously thanks to all of the new enhancements.

    I don't care too much about grinding right now--too much to catch up on. I'm just going to play casually a bit, see epic GH, some of the newish content (not the Expansion...not paying for that garbage). The only thing I'm interested in grinding for is the ****ing Pinion still, and I don't know if I'm quite motivated enough to bother running that awful raid. Thought about joining one yesterday, but saw that half the raid was after the bow.
    Useful links: A Guide to Using a Gamepad w/ DDO / All Caster Shroud, Hard Shroud, VoD, ToD Einhander, Elochka, Ferrumrym, Ferrumdermis, Ferrumshot, Ferrumblood, Ferrumender, Ferrumshadow, Ferrumschtik All proud officers of The Loreseekers. Except Bruucelee, he's a Sentinel!

  17. #17
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    Pre-U19 I played a Half-Elf 12 Monk/6 Ranger/2 Fighter AA and it was pretty solid in EE content. Now I'm playing Elf 12 Monk/6 Ranger/2 Druid and it's very strong even without the Beguile shenanigans. I'm STR based with OC, and chose Elf for two reasons: +2 DEX to help me get the 21 I need for Combat Archery, and the Aerenal weapon training (+4 hit/dmg with Pinion). My twists are Rejuv Cocoon, Pin and Otto's Whistler. It's by far my strongest toon.

    Now that A Dance with Flowers works with Zen Archery, I'm going to LR from Druid to Artificer. Heal scrolls net 396 each for 4 AP, which lets me drop Rejuv for Dance. Full UMD also allows me to incorporate Tenser's Transformation before a Furyshot. I haven't decided what I'm going to replace Empower Heal Spell with yet.

    BTW: I don't purchase Shadow Veil on my AA. Even with Henshin Mystic Contemplation it uses up too much ki. I don't melee.
    Last edited by Carpone; 08-28-2013 at 01:30 PM.
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carpone View Post
    Pre-U19 I played a Half-Elf 12 Monk/6 Ranger/2 Fighter AA and it was pretty solid in EE content. Now I'm playing Elf 12 Monk/6 Ranger/2 Druid and it's very strong even without the Beguile shenanigans. I'm STR based with OC, and chose Elf for two reasons: +2 DEX to help me get the 21 I need for Combat Archery, and the Aerenal weapon training (+4 hit/dmg with Pinion). My twists are Rejuv Cocoon, Pin and Otto's Whistler. It's by far my strongest toon.

    Now that A Dance with Flowers works with Zen Archery, I'm going to LR from Druid to Artificer. Heal scrolls net 396 each for 4 AP, which lets me drop Rejuv for Dance. Full UMD also allows me to incorporate Tenser's Transformation before a Furyshot. I haven't decided what I'm going to replace Empower Heal Spell with yet.

    BTW: I don't purchase Shadow Veil on my AA. Even with Henshin Mystic Contemplation it uses up too much ki. I don't melee.
    Any chance you would post that Elf Mnk/Rng/Arti build you have in mind Carpone?

  19. #19
    Community Member Bilger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sephiroth1084 View Post
    Heh, thanks, Emi. We'll see.

    It's good to see everyone I've missed for a year, and to play around with new build options, even if I'm loath to even load my paladin for fear of seeing just how badly they ****ed him up. Pure builds really shouldn't have gotten worse with an update like this--it should have strengthened some pure builds, and forced new choices with multi-classing. In some cases the update did that, but in many it screwed the single-classed characters (paladin and fighter, especially).
    .
    As far as pali's they did get the worst of it with DOS greater stances requiring shields, but Divine might easily made up for the strength loss(adds charisma bonus to strength) The loss to HP and con plus ac if went that way hurt a bit. Still the red headed step child sadly. Work with the enhancements though my pali while not pure made out a lil bit higher in dps and tactics but lost some hp and ac, but can live with it.

    AA I have 2 of them a ten k star user(13 monk/6fighter/1 arti) and a fury shot archer(11 ranger/8 fighter/1 monk). Both are way better than before pass. My fury shot archer takes advantage of zen archery and has OC and mountain stance for huge crits and went up kensai tree for more damage and such. Along with elf enhancements she turned out awesome. Split my monk version between elf, kensai, AA, and shin (HA and survivability) also has full rogue skills with arti lvl and gets magical training for free saves ap in AA tree. Overall the enhancement pass was awesome and improved 99% of builds sadly Pali was biggest hit taken, but still is very playable.
    Last edited by Bilger; 08-28-2013 at 04:24 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sephiroth1084 View Post
    What's a gimp to do?

    All the lusties are off doing other things.... No one to carry me.

    My Str and Dex are close enough on my archer that I can live with the bug for the time being. I'm still getting more damage per shot than I was previously thanks to all of the new enhancements.

    I don't care too much about grinding right now--too much to catch up on. I'm just going to play casually a bit, see epic GH, some of the newish content (not the Expansion...not paying for that garbage). The only thing I'm interested in grinding for is the ****ing Pinion still, and I don't know if I'm quite motivated enough to bother running that awful raid. Thought about joining one yesterday, but saw that half the raid was after the bow.
    Luckily I've got a Pinion, very fun with IPS+manyshot+fury. Although after TRing I didn't have enough favour to upgrade to the new tiers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Carpone View Post
    Pre-U19 I played a Half-Elf 12 Monk/6 Ranger/2 Fighter AA and it was pretty solid in EE content. Now I'm playing Elf 12 Monk/6 Ranger/2 Druid and it's very strong even without the Beguile shenanigans. I'm STR based with OC, and chose Elf for two reasons: +2 DEX to help me get the 21 I need for Combat Archery, and the Aerenal weapon training (+4 hit/dmg with Pinion). My twists are Rejuv Cocoon, Pin and Otto's Whistler. It's by far my strongest toon.

    Now that A Dance with Flowers works with Zen Archery, I'm going to LR from Druid to Artificer. Heal scrolls net 396 each for 4 AP, which lets me drop Rejuv for Dance. Full UMD also allows me to incorporate Tenser's Transformation before a Furyshot. I haven't decided what I'm going to replace Empower Heal Spell with yet.

    BTW: I don't purchase Shadow Veil on my AA. Even with Henshin Mystic Contemplation it uses up too much ki. I don't melee.
    That's very good to know. Zen Archery+Dance for Flowers and Combat Archery, all working now. I did notice that they made Arti Scroll Mastery easier and cheaper to get that the initial lam beta. Good stuff.
    Varz
    Wanderlust

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