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  1. #1
    Community Member krynnotaur's Avatar
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    Thumbs down Why are the known issues not updated?

    I know for a fact a lot more issues than are present on the new known issues list were reported, and are still not reflected, again, in the new known issues list. What is the point of this list, if it is continuously inaccurate in the context of confirmed issues? What is the point of carrying known issues forward for years at a time, when the list is not indicative of the problem space?

    What is the problem with your quality control, turbine?

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by krynnotaur View Post
    I know for a fact a lot more issues than are present on the new known issues list were reported, and are still not reflected, again, in the new known issues list. What is the point of this list, if it is continuously inaccurate in the context of confirmed issues? What is the point of carrying known issues forward for years at a time, when the list is not indicative of the problem space?

    What is the problem with your quality control, turbine?
    QA does not control the KI list.

    Thank you.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thumbed_Servant View Post
    Maybe you should?

    The Known Issues List being woefully incomplete is....a known issue?!

    You really could not do a worse job, and as the list currently is miniscule compared to things like game code, it really should not add much to your departments work load. As it is I feel that the Known Issues List is not given enough attention/updated properly.

    P.S. It is VERY appreciated that you take time to post on the forums MajMalphunction. For the 4 years I've been playing DDO I have obtained much valuable information concerning the game through reading your posts and the threads you've posted in (Dev Tracker is INVALUABLE).
    This really has more to do with the name of the "Known Issues" list. The known issues list is the list of bugs they know about and no longer need bug reports for. NOT the list of all known bugs in the game. (at least that is what we were told once upon a time in MOTU beta, at least i think it was MOTU beta)

    Maj, could we get another list, called the "under investigation" list, where you put the most popular/problematic bugs that you need bug reported more? It would go along way to clearing up the very common misunderstanding.

  4. #4
    Community Member knightgf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MajMalphunktion View Post
    QA does not control the KI list.

    Thank you.
    But do they control the KI bar?

    Get it? KI - Monk Power, or KI - Short for Known Issues.

    I just had to make that lame joke.
    Here's a riddle for you: What do you call people who play the game for only a day and apparently know everything?

  5. #5
    Community Member krynnotaur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thumbed_Servant View Post
    Maybe you should?

    P.S. It is VERY appreciated that you take time to post on the forums MajMalphunction. For the 4 years I've been playing DDO I have obtained much valuable information concerning the game through reading your posts and the threads you've posted in (Dev Tracker is INVALUABLE).
    These. Thanks for the response. There may be a process gap

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by MajMalphunktion View Post
    QA does not control the KI list.

    Thank you.
    Who is it run by? Do you have a propaganda dpt? Maybe marketing covers spin.

    The whole "these are the issues we dont need more info on" is a copout, theres nothing stopping you from putting an asterisk next to the issues that you have a handle on (but still never got around to fixing?).

    Whoever decides which bugs are cool enough to be on that list is making turbine look dishonest Add in the recent cash grab tactics and its hard to dismiss as chance for anyone not brainwashed.

  7. #7
    Community Member enochiancub's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thumbed_Servant View Post
    You really could not do a worse job
    Yeah, cause being insulting is always helpful. I do like how you edited to include a compliment and an asinine smiley emoticon though. That'll help.

    Main: 18 Artificer, Thelanis

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thumbed_Servant View Post
    You really could not do a worse job
    One fun thing about QA is that no one ever knows the number of bugs you removed.

    DDO is seven years old. It's such a mess of code (a "spaghetti ball," as Tolero put it iirc) that changing or adding anything to it is probably a huge feat if it doesn't break anything. Add in deadlines set by management and you get bugs escaping into live release.

    I'm not saying bugs are okay, I'm just saying that they're understandable in an old, complex game like DDO, and it's really unfair to blame QA.

  9. #9
    2014 DDO Players Council Flavilandile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by krynnotaur View Post
    I know for a fact a lot more issues than are present on the new known issues list were reported, and are still not reflected, again, in the new known issues list. What is the point of this list, if it is continuously inaccurate in the context of confirmed issues? What is the point of carrying known issues forward for years at a time, when the list is not indicative of the problem space?

    What is the problem with your quality control, turbine?
    It has been stated once that the Known Issue List is the list of the broken things Turbine is aware of and they have enough information about so that eventually they might fix it someday.

    It actually does not represent the full and complete list of broken things. Just the list of things we don't need to bug report or nag them about.

    I think that if we want to have a complete list of all the broken things we have to do one ourselves and keep it updated.
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  10. #10
    Community Member RapkintheRanger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArcaneArcher52689 View Post
    This really has more to do with the name of the "Known Issues" list. The known issues list is the list of bugs they know about and no longer need bug reports for. NOT the list of all known bugs in the game. (at least that is what we were told once upon a time in MOTU beta, at least i think it was MOTU beta)

    Maj, could we get another list, called the "under investigation" list, where you put the most popular/problematic bugs that you need bug reported more? It would go along way to clearing up the very common misunderstanding.
    This would be helpful

    for example do we need to report that the "fog of war " persists in Epic Gianhold even if u have all the locations? The U19 release notes say it is fixed. i believe it is for Heroic levels. But not epic... Do we need to report it? if i see it on a list then i dont report and neither do many others...


    If we saw on the list tha DEVs were aware that the imbue stances randomly toggle off for arcane archers it would stop every player with an archer from sending a ticket. people say they sent tickets on Lam about it... but it is still broken... and it is not listed... are u aware of it?

    Lastly. It is blindingly easy to spend money/astral shards. it is surprisingly difficult to get a bug report in... Can we replace the astral shard counter with a report bug or call DM buton?

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by MajMalphunktion View Post
    QA does not control the KI list.

    Thank you.
    I find this quite surprising myself.

    Who does control it if not the department responsible for signing off on fixes? The marketing department?

    Can you pass on the general concern that there are far more Known Issues than are being reported?

    This will help new players understand that the problem they're experiencing isn't something they're doing wrong at their end or something they have misunderstood.

    You're welcome

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qezuzu View Post
    One fun thing about QA is that no one ever knows the number of bugs you removed.

    DDO is seven years old. It's such a mess of code (a "spaghetti ball," as Tolero put it iirc) that changing or adding anything to it is probably a huge feat if it doesn't break anything. Add in deadlines set by management and you get bugs escaping into live release.

    I'm not saying bugs are okay, I'm just saying that they're understandable in an old, complex game like DDO, and it's really unfair to blame QA.
    I just don't buy this.

    Say the game was in development for 3 years before it's release. 10 year old code does not make it legacy or make it unmaintainable.

    At some point in time, when you become responsible for maintaining alien code, it becomes your responsibility to make it more maintainable.

    Coupling and cohesion are nothing new in the realm of software engineering, and while the DDO source code may not be shining examples of best practice, you don't get to create complex systems without a basic understanding of these principles.

    I say it's a cop-out to blame the code.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by RapkintheRanger View Post
    This would be helpful

    for example do we need to report that the "fog of war " persists in Epic Gianhold even if u have all the locations? The U19 release notes say it is fixed. i believe it is for Heroic levels. But not epic... Do we need to report it? if i see it on a list then i dont report and neither do many others...
    Unfortunately, this is probably why they don't have a second list. Because they NEED bug reports in order to fix things.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deadlock View Post
    I just don't buy this.

    Say the game was in development for 3 years before it's release. 10 year old code does not make it legacy or make it unmaintainable.

    At some point in time, when you become responsible for maintaining alien code, it becomes your responsibility to make it more maintainable.

    Coupling and cohesion are nothing new in the realm of software engineering, and while the DDO source code may not be shining examples of best practice, you don't get to create complex systems without a basic understanding of these principles.

    I say it's a cop-out to blame the code.
    And I say you missed the part where I said management is also to blame.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qezuzu View Post
    And I say you missed the part where I said management is also to blame.
    I didn't think that was your core message, sorry if I misunderstood. I was arguing that blaming the code is a poor excuse when you've have had ample time to improve it.

  16. #16
    The Hatchery psteen1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MajMalphunktion View Post
    QA does not control the KI list.

    Thank you.
    While I am a big fan of your posts, this one strikes me as rather strange. Why are you replying at all if your post does not help whatsoever? Is this a dig at one of your colleagues- the one who does control the list?

    In any case, given that the known issue list is pretty worthless, I really wish it would stop being released to the public at the same time as the release notes. It only perpetuates bad will between the players and Turbine.

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