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  1. #1
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    Default Poor exp in new quests.

    Hi,

    The exp rewards in the quests seem pretty damn low. Quest with a ton of trash to clear, much of which is unskippable by the quest mechanics. Easily 30-60 minutes or more in an off-destiny, and resulting in 40-50k exp. That's just not worth the trouble when considering grinding the endless horror that is ED exp.

    Doing those in a maxed ready destiny is a different beast of course, but that grants quest completion, and no exp. To me that is pretty much pointless, but lets roll with it.

    Scenario 1, exp-destiny:
    * Run to Shadowfell quest, 5min.
    * Complete quest, 30min.
    35min for 40k exp.

    Scenario 2, capped destiny:
    * Run to Shadowfell quest, 5min.
    * Complete quest, 15min, 0exp.
    * Run to Rusted Blades, 5min.
    * Complete, 2min, 30k.
    * Run to Impossible demands, 5min.
    * Complete, 2min. 30k.
    29min for 60k exp.

    Seriously, the exp is so bad I haven't been bothered to complete the second chain on any toon yet, and only one toon did the first chain. Doing the endless amount of trash in an off-destiny sounds too tedious, and doing the quests without gaining any ED exp seems just dumb. Instead, I just opt to do nothing, browse web, consider TR, and look for other games (so far with low success, even with all this, there's still no competition). Even disregarding the few super-fast quests, running pretty much any old epics in an off destiny is much much more efficient expwise, and way less frustrating.

    The problem is the end-game. Do all the new quests, maybe get level 26 if you did some other stuff too. Then what? Raids seem pointless, as random lootgen stuff is better. Grinding ED exp in the same old same old, it's getting tedious. If you could get exp for other destinies while you are in a preferred destiny, things would be totally different. It would actually be interesting to try the challenging content, grind exp in EE etc. Even with the lower exp/minute: you still get favor, loot etc, while having fun. But, as long as the choice is between long an tedious completions and fun completion with no exp-reward, my choice is TR/TV/books/youtube/whatever.

  2. #2
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    If you think Epic XP is bad, check out the Heroic XP:
    * 1670/3016/3133/3250 - The Thrill of the Hunt
    * 1984/3553/3676/3800 - Breaking the Ranks
    * 2295/4113/4256/4400 - The Tracker's Trap
    * 2308/4173/4336/4499 - Army of Shadow
    * 2348/4206/4353/4500 - Lines of Supply
    * 2452/4433/4606/4780 - A Lesson in Deception
    * 3169/5733/5958/6184 - Friends in Low Places
    * 3408/6166/6409/6652 - Through a Mirror Darkly
    * 3737/6700/6936/7172 - A Break in the Ice

    Horrible. Sub-par.

    And gives little reason to stop farming Vale quests for XP.

  3. #3
    Community Member djl's Avatar
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    And yet, they added an additional 3.6 million needed to get from 25-28. Looks like most people are going to remain in Eveningstar to XP, after they get the loot they want from these new quests.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by oradafu View Post
    If you think Epic XP is bad, check out the Heroic XP:
    * 1670/3016/3133/3250 - The Thrill of the Hunt
    * 1984/3553/3676/3800 - Breaking the Ranks
    * 2295/4113/4256/4400 - The Tracker's Trap
    * 2308/4173/4336/4499 - Army of Shadow
    * 2348/4206/4353/4500 - Lines of Supply
    * 2452/4433/4606/4780 - A Lesson in Deception
    * 3169/5733/5958/6184 - Friends in Low Places
    * 3408/6166/6409/6652 - Through a Mirror Darkly
    * 3737/6700/6936/7172 - A Break in the Ice

    Horrible. Sub-par.

    And gives little reason to stop farming Vale quests for XP.
    Good point about the heroic versions. So, in addition to the poor grind to 28/ed-grind, the bump from 18 to 20 is still a bad one. Tons of quests to run, and I mean tons. C, amrath, IQ, reavers refuge, shadowfell, eveningstar, etc. And the best exp is still to repeat runs in vale and asylum until your eyes bleed. Sigh.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by era42 View Post
    Good point about the heroic versions. So, in addition to the poor grind to 28/ed-grind, the bump from 18 to 20 is still a bad one. Tons of quests to run, and I mean tons. C, amrath, IQ, reavers refuge, shadowfell, eveningstar, etc. And the best exp is still to repeat runs in vale and asylum until your eyes bleed. Sigh.
    Hm, thanks for the heads up. Maybe I'll run some at-level quests to get enough XP for that second destiny I might need before advancing levels in the new expansion.

  6. #6
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    The problem with the xp was foreseeable.
    Thats the main reason i did not buy the xpack, i mean 3.6mio xp and only so few quests?
    Maybe in a year we will have enough quests to lvl comfortable to 28, sure then it will be max lvl 30 but really who cares about it.
    After all we want to have fun and not grind.

    Ah well enough ranting ill go back to plan my mnk/rogue/pal Life, way more fun then grinding the same quests over and over again in Epic.
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by era42 View Post
    Good point about the heroic versions. So, in addition to the poor grind to 28/ed-grind, the bump from 18 to 20 is still a bad one. Tons of quests to run, and I mean tons. C, amrath, IQ, reavers refuge, shadowfell, eveningstar, etc. And the best exp is still to repeat runs in vale and asylum until your eyes bleed. Sigh.
    Good luck with that. Farming Vale and asylum while annoying other content will now add days to your TR.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by oradafu View Post
    And gives little reason to stop farming Vale quests for XP.
    Don't worry, the nerf to high xp/min quests is comming in U20. That's how you make these low xp values look good.

  9. #9
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    For a long time, the trend has been new quests get shiney objects, and terri-bad XP, especially for heroic levels. There are exceptions to the rule and even a brief look at these exceptions should help highlight for developers how to get players to buy new content and keep using it. Take the famous Rusted Blades run. It had shiney loot and farmable XP. Most people here can likely attest to being on significant numbers of runs where people didn't bother looting the chest, but they kept playing it. Or, take the challenge quests in House C. It has shiney loot and good xp when it first came out and people ran it quite often. The shiney loot remains (less shiney in comparison to new items), but the XP has been nerfed. Now, few to no one runs it and when asked by new players if they should buy it, universally the answer is no. In contrast, quests in the reavers reach had at one time, top end gear and great xp. Now, the gear is not really used at all, but people still ran the **** out of it last I checked. Why, because the XP is still great.

    So, while I like new shinies from new quests, if you want to get players to buy and play new content give it good xp. I haven't bought the expansion and I have barely viewed the loot, but I am certainly basing my decision on purchasing it in the future on xp reports. Also, please dont think nerfing other quest xp is a good idea. I like variety and prioritize playing new quests, but if developers want players to play new content more than just a few times for the thrill of something new, it needs to have good xp. New items will always come out and make old items less shiney (*cough* power creep *cough*) but good XP pretty much lasts forever. Its why people still buy and run VON even though now maybe only one item in there is at any level a motivating factor. Hell, you could spend a lot of money revamping all the loot in VON to make it top for an update, but if you nerfed the xp in there at the same time, come next update barely anyone would be running it.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by FAQ View Post
    Don't worry, the nerf to high xp/min quests is comming in U20. That's how you make these low xp values look good.
    It's already happened. Quest ransack has created a new quick leveling path and farming high xp/min quests over and over each day is not part of that path. People will either adapt or die, but this thread is filled with a lot of people proclaiming things about xp/min paths that have no idea what they're talking about.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by jalont View Post
    It's already happened. Quest ransack has created a new quick leveling path and farming high xp/min quests over and over each day is not part of that path. People will either adapt or die, but this thread is filled with a lot of people proclaiming things about xp/min paths that have no idea what they're talking about.
    True indeed.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by jalont View Post
    It's already happened. Quest ransack has created a new quick leveling path and farming high xp/min quests over and over each day is not part of that path. People will either adapt or die, but this thread is filled with a lot of people proclaiming things about xp/min paths that have no idea what they're talking about.
    Ok, lets give a try. Assuming fast farming, repeating vale quests will
    be much better if it can be spread over several days, such as in the case
    of less active players or non-primary toons.

    Running with the Devils, E(15min), 4*H(10min), N(5min). 1 hour.

    7k base.
    E: 7k * (1+1.5(first time+BB) + 0.2(daily) + 0.25 (lesser tome) + 0.1 (ransack) + 0.15 (onslaught)) = 24k
    H: 7k * (1 + 0.4 (first time) + 0.1 (tome) + 0.1 (ransack) + 0.15 (onslaught)) = 12k.
    Following 3 hard without first time and -20 are 8k, 6k and 5k (I assume 2 non-ransack completions are valid, if not, it's -4k)
    Final normal: 7k * (1+0.2+0.1+0.1+0.15-0.1(level)) = 10k

    Total in that 1 hour, 65k.

    Lets say, new quests take 30 minutes for first time elite.
    E: 5k * (1+1.5(first time+BB) + 0.2(daily) + 0.25 (lesser tome) + 0.1 (ransack) + 0.15 (onslaught)) = 17k

    Two of those in that 1 hour, 34k.

    Sure, the new quests can be faster, but even at quick 15-minute completions, the (now way inefficient) devils farm is still as good. Up to conquest (way easier in devils), or tome to greater and the devil farm gets even better.

    Adapt the farm to include gianthold, vale, reavers etc, and run the quests on consecutive days on various levels for +20%, and 50% less ransack, and the farming only gets better. Whether you stubbornly run the old way, or adapt to the new ransack, poor exp quests will still remain poor, and will not be a part of regular leveling path.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daemoneyes View Post
    The problem with the xp was foreseeable.
    Thats the main reason i did not buy the xpack, i mean 3.6mio xp and only so few quests?
    Maybe in a year we will have enough quests to lvl comfortable to 28, sure then it will be max lvl 30 but really who cares about it.
    After all we want to have fun and not grind.

    Ah well enough ranting ill go back to plan my mnk/rogue/pal Life, way more fun then grinding the same quests over and over again in Epic.
    The 3.6mio xp isnt an issue as you can run those in your main destiny - and xp is fast enough that this should not take long. The issue is getting off-destiny ED xp. Please dont confuse those two things as the former really is a non-issue while the latter is indeed annoying.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by FAQ View Post
    Don't worry, the nerf to high xp/min quests is comming in U20. That's how you make these low xp values look good.
    Source?

  15. #15
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deadlock View Post
    Source?
    The same people who said the Enhancement Pass was going to gimp all builds and destroy the game.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eth View Post
    When you stop caring about xp/min this game becomes really fun. Trust me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gary_Gygax
    No single character has all the skills and resources needed to guarantee success in all endeavors; favorable results can usually only be achieved through group effort. No single player character wins, in the sense that he or she defeats all other player characters; the goal of the forces of good can only be attained through cooperation, so that victory is a group achievement rather than an individual one.

  16. #16
    Community Member bartharok's Avatar
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    I for one dont mind the xp being lowish, im just glad theres more content to run.
    Dystopia = utopia achieved

  17. #17
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by era42 View Post
    Scenario 1, exp-destiny:
    * Run to Shadowfell quest, 5min.
    * Complete quest, 30min.
    35min for 40k exp.
    1k a minute is fine, not great, but fine... Plus you'll be able to do it faster once you get more used to it (you only ran it once).

    Scenario 2, capped destiny:
    * Run to Shadowfell quest, 5min.
    * Complete quest, 15min, 0exp.
    * Run to Rusted Blades, 5min.
    * Complete, 2min, 30k.
    * Run to Impossible demands, 5min.
    * Complete, 2min. 30k.
    29min for 60k exp.
    And be bored out of your mind... What are you a hamster, just running the same wheel over and over for an xp nugget?

    Seriously, the exp is so bad I haven't been bothered to complete the second chain on any toon yet, and only one toon did the first chain.
    Wow, you ARE a hamster... You'd rather run Impossible Demands again than even run new content ONCE?
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eth View Post
    When you stop caring about xp/min this game becomes really fun. Trust me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gary_Gygax
    No single character has all the skills and resources needed to guarantee success in all endeavors; favorable results can usually only be achieved through group effort. No single player character wins, in the sense that he or she defeats all other player characters; the goal of the forces of good can only be attained through cooperation, so that victory is a group achievement rather than an individual one.

  18. #18
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    The issue is not that a ~30 minute quest gives 45-50k XP, the issue is that 2 previous quests the OP is using as an example, rusted blades and impossible demands, allowed us to skip 95% of the quest, kill one boss, and be done. Using these 2 quests as the standard by which all new XP should be awarded in ratio to time spent, is hilarious.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  19. #19
    Community Member bartharok's Avatar
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    On the whole, as long as i can get the xp i need to get to whaever point i want to get to, im happy. Im playing a game, not rushing anywhere
    Dystopia = utopia achieved

  20. #20
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    I'm finding it's most advantageous to run stuff chain-style. Not only can you get the saga bonus (and more sagas are coming!), but you get all the nice +20% daily bonuses. THEN, if you still have time left, you run repeats on the good stuff.

    My housemate and I are averaging about 1 epic level every 2 hours. Seems all right to me. It took me 4 hours to get from rank 91 to rank 95 on my 22-times TR and that was even with cheesing some epics.

    There's plenty to do for epic xp. Run all the Eberron epics ONCE and you'll get a sizeable chunk before you even set foot in Eveningstar.

    It is also probably not to your advantage to grind out epic destiny XP right now if you plan to do Epic TR--just max out the destiny you want to bind first. Destiny XP grind is EFFORTLESS if you combine it with TRing--you can max out nearly 4 destinies just leveling from 20 to 28 with the xp scale the way it is now. This is how I ground out the destiny XP on my completionist--do two destinies on easy lives like Sorc or Artificer. Trying to grind out all the destinies on a "finished" toon sucks. Spare yourself if you can.
    Last edited by PsychoBlonde; 08-22-2013 at 12:35 PM.
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